motosapiens

I was down 3, but I'm an unclassified newb that shoots too slow (84.82 total). It was my 3rd idpa match, and alot less sucky than my first two.

Why would that be? Pat for starters, last I checked VV does not recommend it for 180g .40 bullets, which I think means VV enginners believe it burns too fast to have sufficient margin for error with that bullet. Now, loaded long, in a burly STI gun, it might be perfectly safe...., but mfrs seem to typically give load data that will work at saami-length cartridges or less.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'safest'. *Any* powder will be extremely dangerous if it goes off when the gun is pointed at your crotch, head or wife. If you mean you are planning to accidentally overcharge cases , then any fairly voluminous powder should make it pretty obvious. n320, power pistol, and i'm pretty sure wst and wsf will all overflow from a .40 case with a double charge. If you are planning to accientally seat the bullets too short or have some kind of setback problem, then I'm not sure which would be best. I have read about pressure spikes with clays with too short an OAL, but not with these other powders. Obviously, you're not 'planning' to do any of those things, but if you give an idea about what safety issues you're worried about, experienced folks can offer better opinions. When I started reloading, I wanted to use a powder that would burn clean, recoil soft, overflow the case if double-charged, and not blow up my gun if the bullet was seated .05 too short. I started with power pistol, and very quickly switched to n320, but I'm shooting minor. Based on my experience with n320, my first look would be at n330 or n340 for bullets heavier than 165 grain, at least until i'm confident to get off the reservation and work up my own n320 load. I think most anything you can find in a reputable reloading manual would be as safe as anything else. With that in mind, n330 and n340 are both recommended for use with 180g bullets if you like VV powders. I don't know if they burn as clean or shoot as soft as N320 does for me.

I don't think it makes much difference, unless you need thet extra 2 rds of magazine capacity (17 vs 15, IIRC). If you're reloading, .40 is not significantly more expensive (2 cents or so per round), and is more versatile imho. You can run very soft rounds (as soft as a soft 9mm), or you can run significantly hotter loads. I made my choice based mostly on brass availability. 40 is significantly easier for me to get for free, so that's what I mostly shoot. YMMV.

one more rule change on power factor. I'd like to see a sliding scale based on barrel length. Right now, guys carrying smaller guns are at a disadvantage since they have to run hotter loads to make minimum pf. This sort of discourages the use of more practical carry equipment. I know in theory the rules say the load only has to make pf in the longest barrel gun in that class (or something like that), but who really wants to shoot someone else's reloads in their gun to see if it makes pf? not me.

Jim might kneel down, but I sure as hell wouldn't. I would bend over, or squat, or do something else that didn't require my knees to touch the ground. Lots of people simply can't kneel without significant pain. I'm just arguing with your logic, I personally don't really care too much about that in IDPA as far as the rules go. In a match, I can fake it, or put my jacket down, or ask for accomodation for my 'disability'. Sure, the guys with fat well-padded knees have a slight advantage on me there.

ow, this thread makes my head hurt. I'd like to ask a specific question to help me understand. i shoot ssp, using 15 round mags (cuz that's what the gun came with). at the last match, i loaded them all to 10 rounds. should i be loading the first mag to 11, so that when i load and make ready, i'm at 10+1?

I'm sure the op has been shooting whatever he chose for months now, but I'll still chime in in case anyone else has the same dilemma. I currently have an m&p40 with apex dcaek, and a cz75 (bone stock). Recoil with minor-pf handloads is not different enough for me to notice. Both guns are extremely accurate, and neither has had the slightest hiccup in many 1000s of rounds. I generally compete with the m&p because with the apex kit, i shoot it more accurately at speed, compared to the stock 75 trigger. also my cz is a decocker model, so I don't have the option of running it cocked-and-locked in esp, or for steel shooting. having said that, i still find the cz to be a more attractive and satisfying gun, since it's made of metal, and fits my hand perfectly. If it had a safety, I'd probably send it in for trigger work and shoot it more. Instead, I'm saving my pennies for a cz 75 in 40 with a safety, and maybe a 75shadow in 9mm too. btw, i have experienced the same issue as mgmorden with 10 round mags in the m&p (in the 40 compact). I just treat that gun as a 9+1. no problems with the high-capacity mags on my 40fs.

Take this for what it's worth, from a noob, but one of the things that shooting IDPA for the first time (last spring) made me do was to start carrying a bigger gun that I could shoot more accurately. I also think many folks might carry a compact, but compete with the full-sized version of that same gun (I do), and so I think the practice and training on the race gun translates over pretty effectively to the carry gun. I would still welcome a compact division, but in the absence of it I'll have extra respect for the guys that are shooting (and beating me often enough) with their compact carry guns. It's all about fun anyway, and as long as I'm shooting something, and learning at least a little bit, I'm having fun.

What events are you going to compete in? uspsa? M&p9 (pro or regular model with an apex trigger kit) can shoot idpa, uspsa, steel or whatever, and is pretty reasonably priced. It's hard to argue against cheap and effective. the cz is imho a much more attractive gun, but if you don't get the shadow model (pricier), you'll need trigger work on it, and for a noob like me that seemed like less of a do-it-yourself job. Also the sp01 needs some attention in order to make weight in IDPA, at least at more serious matches. I have a cz75, and I compete with an m&p40 with an apex dcaek. I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy some more cz's, but right now I feel like the m&p is the most cost-effective and versatile solution for me. It can shoot way better than I can.

I have a plain old m&p 40 (4.25" barrel), recently put an apex dcaek in it. I rented an xd 5.25 a few weeks ago, because i've heard good things about the xd's. admittedly, it's hard to compare a rental to my own gun that i'm used to, and it's hard to compare factory 9mm loads to my 40 handloads (well, not that hard, since they are similar power), but the xd had noticeably more recoil to me, and the trigger felt heavier and notchier than my m&p even before the trigger work. I also didn't care for the hard plastic grip instead of the slightly softer feel of the m&p. Perhaps I just got unlucky but I was pretty disappointed in the xd, and I no longer am considering one. I shot my m&p MUCH more accurately.

Feel free to disregard comments from the noob, but since not everyone is a lawyer, why not comply with the spirit of the WSB, instead of trying to find technicalities that let a clever lawyer get some kind of advantage?

No CZ's ? there might be more cz's in SSP if not for the striker-fired (single action imho) guns like glock and m&p. i have a cz75 and an m&p, and for me the m&p is easier to shoot in a competitive venue. If there were a real DA/SA class where the cz was not at a disadvantage, I would shoot it more. Heck, I might bring two guns and shoot both divisions then. woot woot. The current split between esp and ssp doesn't make sense to me based on how the guns perform. I would also like to see a compact division. Mostly tho, I have no real complaints. I'd like it to remain different from uspsa, and also at least slightly more focused on real carry weapons.

This probably varies from club to club, but I can tell you that if you came to the local club idpa matches here in nampa ida ho, you would be welcomed. I had the same idea as you, of just showing up to observe, but they encouraged me to be ready to shoot, so I did. I let the RO know I was new, so they put me last, and spent some extra time explaining things to me. I returned the favor by not trying to hurry anything, and going slowly and safely, and had a blast. Focus on safety rather than speed.

cheapest 9mm i can buy at the store here: $10.49 /50 lighter recoil cleaner 9mm that i can load myself: $6.00 / 50 Not a huge amount, and I don't mind practicing with factory 9mm ammo, esp if i can find it on sale, but for any competitive shooting, I think it's worth it to reload for the reduced recoil.

the answer to your question is yes. they make polymer and steel guns. sp01 and any shadow is steel. Sp01 phantom is polymer.

Maybe a dumb question. Are you required to have the weapon on safe at low-ready? I couldn't find anything in the rules about that. Only that the finger must be outside the trigger guard. I have to admit, I never once put my buckmark on safe at the 10 or so steel matches I shot over the summer. It simply stayed pointed downrange from the time it was loaded until it was declared safe at the end of my turn.

I have one of Lee's reloading books and IIRC, the specific reason they use a different setup is because they think the tubes are dangerous.

I was going to reply to some of the other folks that suggested reloading is only worth it in large quantities, but since they seem to have discouraged you, I'll reply to you instead: IMHO, at 2,000 rounds/year, you should DEFINITELY reload. There's no need for a $600 investment if you just want to get your feet wet, have some fun, and learn and shoot more. I spent less than $200 for my starter set of reloading equipment, and figured that by the time I went through my order of 2,000 bullets, I would have saved enough to pay for the equipment. I started with an inexpensive single-stage press kit from LEE (under $100), and added a vibratory case-cleaner and a Lee die set. Yes, it's slower than progressive setup, but it's also many hundreds cheaper, and imho slower is not a bad thing when you're just getting started. Also the time you spend loading on a single-stage press will allow you to figure out exactly what is important to you in a progressive press when you get one. Keep in mind, it's not JUST the 50% savings over the very cheapest .40 ammo you can find, but if you're competing, you can also tune the rounds for minimum recoil while still meeting power factor, and many powders (n320 for example) burn alot cleaner than the cheapest factory stuff. With my $200 reloading kit investment, I can load 100-150 rounds/hour. I typically decap/resize/prime in bulk (this time is included in the estimate), and then charge, seat and crimp lots of 50 at a time (takes about 12 mins for each 50 for this part). The single-stage press is small, so I can leave it set up all the time, and it's attached to my folding workbench, so I can move it downstairs and work while football is on. I wouldn't reload on progressive press while being distracted, but with a single-stage there's less to go wrong. just make sure you check each lot of 50 visually for equal charges of powder (double charges or empty cases should be exceedingly obvious) before you move on to seating. So if I've got a match coming up, and I have a few hundred primed and sized casings already standing by, it only takes 30-40 mins to crank out ammo for the match, or i can just spend 12 mins before bed a few night a week and stay on top of it. I find those times to be relaxing, and it's when I think about shooting technique or other shooting-related stuff. Now for sure, I'm going to get a dillon progressive press in the next 6-12 months, but half of my initial investment can still be used on my new press, and the single-stage press itself will still be useful for working up loads in small batches, or bulk sizing/decapping/priming while watching tv, or as an emergency backup, or as something I can load up and take to the range with me while developing a load, etc... Also, I now have a pretty good idea of what I want/need in a progressive press, since I have my own experience to consider. Admittedly, my way is not the best way, or the only way, but it has been an effective way for me. YMMV, esp if you have kids, a wife that won't allow you to keep the press set up, or various other safety issues to work with. The point is simply that you can get started and see if reloading is something you enjoy for a lot less than $600-800.

Agree. If you're not going to reload, I would not shoot .40 in production (or idpa-ssp class). But you should reload. Even in 9mm, there is a significant recoil (and cleanliness) difference between factory fmj ammo and good light minor power-factor handload. You don't have to dive in headfirst with reloading. For $200 or so you can be rolling with a single-stage kit. It's not as fast as a fancy setup, but it's safer for a beginner and I can still load up 100-150 rounds in an hour. in general, either a 9 or a 40 are great. I personally shoot more 40 because i get brass free from work. if i got once-fired 9mm brass of the same brand for free, I'd shoot 9 without a second thought.

thanks for the tip, i stopped to shoot a bit on my way to work and experimented a bit, and by moving my support hand just slightly i can get it in contact with the back of the grip panel on that side. Seems to be a bit more stable and I shot well that way. I'll have to practice it now. Thanks again. I noticed while shooting (minor .40 loads) that the gun did not move the slightest in my hands, even during rapid fire strings of 10 shots. I guess the m&p must just fit my hand well.

i was ready to live fire at the referee in the chiefs/chargers game. Some truly bizarre replay calls imho, and alot of other marginal stuff that wasn't reviewed.

Where does this part of your hand go? Pretty much touching my fingernails I think, but I'll have to double check when i get home tonight. the first knuckle of my strong hand thumb fits in between the first and 2nd knuckle of my support hand thumb. I think I'd have to pull my strong hand fingers out of the way for that part of my support hand to touch the gun. But I'm probably doing it wrong. Even so, my support hand stays put, locked against my strong hand.

I'm a bit of newb i guess, but my weak hand only even touches the gun at a spot on the right side of my left index finger, where it touches under the trigger guard. The rest of my hand is only holding on to my other hand. That's what I learned from a matt burkett video and watching other shooters that are better than me, so it's probably all messed up.

I guess I have only shot at a range full of nice guys. in a squad of 7-8, there a few people taping and resetting and a few people helping pick up brass, and by the time the RO is done scoring, everything is done and ready to roll. Whichever job I'm doing, I usually am also having a friendly chat with someone else doing it. I personally want *my* brass back (all the same headstamp), I don't want other people's. So it's important to me to get all/most of mine back when possible. I wouldn't freak out if I went somewhere that people weren't that friendly and helpful, but I'd probably use by B lots of ammo there and not stress about the brass. Part of the reason I shoot is for the friendly camaraderie and ability to learn. I guess I never realized that on-deck shooters were so delicate and sensitive, but I guess that's cool.