motosapiens

That's what I was going to suggest. There are certain shooters (and certain RO's) here that I know really have their shiznit together, and they get it done efficiently with everyone working together and the on-deck shooter having time to chill and plan while the stage is reset and brass is picked up. I hope I've shown enough attentiveness and desire to help that those folks want to squad with me. Usually we get to the next stage while the squad ahead of us has 1-2 shooters left, so we all get to watch them and start planning too. There are 1 or 2 people that I just try avoid squadding up with. Either they take all dang day, or they don't help, or they pocket the brass they pick up instead of returning it to the shooter.

I'm in a similar boat. Been shooting 40 minor in idpa the last 6-8 months. I just started uspsa and wanted to shoot major just because I can. That's the whole point of .40, right? I want to improve my proficiency with the more powerful rounds. Based on the stages here, I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference whether you shoot l10 or limited. i would go with whichever one is more popular i suppose. I found I was rarely shooting to slide-lock, although my magazines are only 14 rounds so it's not that big a difference from l10. i find it useful to compare my scores to the overall anyway tho, because division results can really be affected by a few shooters either showing up or missing a match, but the overall should be a bit more steady.

no experience with titegroup, but you can run n320 well below the 'starting load' if you want to shoot minor. 4.1gr of n320 under a zero 165fmj goes just over 1000fps for me in a cz75. I ran the same with berrys 165 but didn't chrono them. They should be slightly faster if you care, but still well in the effective zone for plated bullets. They cycle the action fine on my M&P40, but I needed to go to a lighter recoil spring on my cz to get it to lock back the slide. If you don't feel like screwing with that just add a couple tenths.

Just started shooting uspsa after many idpa matches. These are my first major loads. Using VV's loading manual on the web, i started with 5.0 of n320 with a 165gr zero hollowpoint, which was making 165-167 pf. Max load in the manual is 5.2gr, at 1.126 oal (iirc), so I figured I could bump it up to 5.1-5.2 and have enough margin for error to not have to stress about a chrono stage. Weighing the loads, most were 5.2, but a few at 5.3 and even nudging up to 5.4. OAL is 1.13-ish. These shoot dreamy, very accurate and very manageable recoil. I know reloading manuals tend to be pretty conservative, but it still makes me nervous to have some of the charges coming out above the 'never exceed' weight, so I thought I'd get some opinions, since I'm not at all interested in blowing myself up. To me, these primers (wsp) don't look all that flattened. They're nothing like the mashed flat ones that i get from factory winchester ranger law enforcment rounds, but some of the threads i saw suggested that the little bit of 'cratering' might be a concern. fwiw, gun is a cz75b. all opinions welcome. thanks in advance. Edit, better picture of brass. from left to right: left row is 4.9-ish gr of n320 (982fps), middle row is 5.1-ish of n320(1018fps)(marked with sharpie so i could separate them after shooting), right row is 5.2-5.3 of n320 (1034fps) Not a whole lot of difference in how they look, and they seem to me to show very little flattening of the primers. Maybe I should just not worry.

If I paid $80 plus for a match and this was all of the shooting I got to do... well I would not be very happy. Practical? Sure, but I am at a match to compete and shoot A LOT. I think what steve koski is implying is to have a couple stages like that is fine, mixed in with some more shoot-em-up higher round count stages. I think thats pretty reasonable, and something that the OP can easily volunteer to help design and set up some stages for his local matches.

I don't think I'd bother showing up for 1, 2, or 3 round real-life scenarios. I like to shoot. If you want to train for real life, I think a real training class is a better option. Having said that, I do carry the same gun I shoot in idpa (cz75). One of the things idpa did for me is convince me that if i ever have to use a gun defensively, i'd like one I can shoot well.

just to put this in perspective, what if one of the stages (unannounced in advance) required you to put your gun in an official sized box? (for divisions that have a defined box)? It's a rule. Would people have a cow or think they were being accused of cheating if someone checked to make sure they were complying with that rule? What if they measured your magazines? Or checked to make sure your gun was on the almighty 'list'? What if the match organizers actually enforced *any* rule regarding technical specifications? would people cry? or have cows? Or imagine they were being accused of something?

I use 4.1-ish of n320 under 165 grain fmj (montana gold or zero). this just barely makes minor pf, around 127 on average in testing so far. I'm in the process of sanding my pro-auto-disk measure until it makes about 130. Under the same bullet, I also use 3.2 or 3.3 of clays, which conveniently also just barely makes minor pf in the same auto-disk setting, so sanding that hole larger should benefit either powder. all chrono has been shot out of a cz75. I haven't yet chrono'd them out of my m&p

It's probably been said already (I even may have said it, lol), but I can only really imagine a few honest reactions to an unannounced chrono stage: 1) balls. I'm cheating and I know it and I'll get caught. 2. yay. I've never gotten to chrono my ammo before. I'd love to verify I'm legal. I wonder what they do if us newbies don't make pf. I hope I still get to see my score. 3. Yay, I've never seen a chrono at a level1 match before. I know my ammo makes pf, but it should be fun to see how everyone reacts.

I specifically got da/sa models, since I also carry mine, and I prefer da to cocked and locked for carry. There's no reason you have to use the D/A mode if you don't want to.

Shooting for no score still isn't fun to me. I don't expect to win the division, but would like to see where I land. Then use legal ammunition. Seriously, I think there is a very valid point raised about new shooters with factory ammo. I'd hate to have to tell someone "haha, store-bought ain't good enough for us". And I can see the point that since chrono stages are rare, some people may be put out by having one unexpectedly, and some people may just not be all that serious. Not everyone is trying to cheat or cut as close as they can. Some people probably just got a load in a book and liked the way it shot and have never had an opportunity to chrono it to verify they are playing with legal ammunition. Maybe a reasonable solution would simply be to have the chrono for informational purposes only, but still publish the informational numbers in the results. We all have an obligation imho to make a good-faith effort to show up with legal equipment, not just bring whatever we have and see if we can rationalize it being ok. Having said that, I have to admit, I would be nervous if I showed up to a match and had an unexpected chrono stage for score, but that would be entirely on me because I waited so long to get a chrono and a decent powder measure, and I have a stockpile of ammo from before.

If you have access to a chrono, I'd love to see your data when you shoot a few. should be a nice sensible safe load. No problem just have to figure out which chrono to buy. Give me a week or two and I'll let you know i just got a pro-chrono digital from shooters connection. seemed like the best bang for the buck, and the 3 times i've used it the readings have been consistent and made sense. (start every session with a handful of .22's from my bersa to make sure things are reading what i expect. figure I should get 100 chrono sessions from one lot of bulk-pack 22). It's on sale at midway usa too.

Return of the zombie thread!!!! I would recommend that anyone at least look around locally to see what is available and what prices. I bought primers and powder at sportsman's warehouse a few miles away in boise, until i bought all 3 lbs of n320 they had apparently planned to carry for the rest of the decade. Picked up several thousand primers when they were 20% off at cabelas. Got all my reloading dies locally. After waiting and waiting for more n320, I finally gave up and ordered 4 lbs from powder valley, plus a boatload of primers too. I like zero bullets alot, but if czcustom has them in stock, better just buy them even if you don't need them now. You know you will eventually.

An unannounced chrono stage would make it MORE fun for me. I haven't been to any match with a chrono yet, so I finally just gave up and bought one because I believe in playing within the rules.... plus it's fun.

You're doing it wrong, at least from a compeition perspective. I hear that alot. sigh. Thanks for the explanation. Looks like I have something else to practice. I still don't see how I could possibly look inside the magwell without turning the gun sideways and slowing to a crawl, but bringing the gun back and keeping it high makes sense, and as you push it back out on-target, site acquisition is probably happening on the way, just like when presenting from the draw.

If you have access to a chrono, I'd love to see your data when you shoot a few. should be a nice sensible safe load.

I'm a bit of a newb, but I've been training to reload without looking at the magwell, or pulling the gun back down from a firing position. Should I be looking at the magwell?

are these just 9mms? my m&p 40's have had zero extraction problems in several thousand rounds. Zero problems of any kind actually. I had an occasional (once ever 150 rounds) extraction issue on another gun that seems to have been solved with slightly beefier extractor spring.

It's not the same thing for people that only shoot a match or two every year (for example people who are mostly focused on another discipline). Those people are supposed to pay $40 to idpa, but they just pay a little at each match for uspsa. That's the whole point. The idpa rule(if enforced)discourages the occasional participant from shooting, whereas the uspsa rule does not. Now it's reasonable to speculate that for many, the idpa rule encourages the occasional participant to shoot more matches if he has to join IDPA anyway, and I'd guess for some, that's true. But it certainly also would prevent some people from shooting IDPA. I don't know if IDPA cares about that. Clearly not everyone on this forum does, and that's ok.

Thanks for posting that. It's Good to know you can go that long. what kind of bullets gave you problems at shorter OAL? my m&p40 (full sized and compact) have never had a feeding problem of any kind with factory ammo or my reloads of berrys, zero and mg 165 grain TC bullets. I've always loaded to 1.125 or slightly above.

I think you make some valid points, but for me, personally, as a shooter and also as a competitor in other sports like bicycle and motorcycle racing, I find that I get a much better impression of my improvement by looking at the overall. When the results are sorted out by division/class etc..., then maybe I just look better this week because the other 2 guys in the senior limited paraplegic womens class couldn't make it, but if last year i was in the 70th percentileout of 40 shooters in the overall, and this year i'm in the 40th percentile, chances are I got better. So I pretty much ignore the division results. If an LEO with a flashlight on his gun finished ahead of me in the division or ahead of me in the overall, I wouldn't care, and I wouldn't blame it on his equipment 'advantage'. Sure, that's if it's one individual LEO shows up, it won't upset your percentile in the overalls that much, but if you had one or two squads show up with flashlights? Given a typical club match of 40 people, having another 8-16 people would have a big effect on percentile. Remember that percentile is essentially the number of people whose scores are lower than yours. The more people there are in the population, the more your percentile can be affected. Now if all you are looking at is your score as percentage of the high overall score, then yes, it shouldn't matter... unless those LEO's win enough stages and thereby skewing the way stage points are distributed. I'm not usually looking at how far I am from first, but how much closer I am to first than I was 6 months ago. Perhaps 10 LEO's with flashlights could skew the results if they all show up for only one match, but that assumes that a flashlight is even an advantage. I sure as heck wouldn't want to shoot with one on my gun. Since I seem to be able to shoot major loads just about as quickly and accurately as minor, I'm not convinced that it would be an advantage for a middle-of-the-road shooter. At any rate, I don't really have a dog in this fight, and I'm not really a rules weenie when it comes to what other people use. I worry about what and how I shoot, and let other people do their thing.

True, many folks around here shoot STI's or other guns not originally based on 9mm, so they either have to load longer to feed well, or they choose to load longer because they're using some off-the-reservation load. I have an m&p and a cz75. A faster powder like n320 (which I use for minor9mm and have been using for 40 minor as well) can get to major, but not much more. It's not recommended by VV for 180gr bullets, I've just been testing this week, and chrono'd this load out of my cz. I would think it would be close in the m&p. 5.2grains is the max load in the VV manual at 1.126 oal. I'm loading around 1.13, and there's more room in my m&p magazine, so I wouldn't stress about going up to 5.2 or even 5.3 after some testing and examination for pressure signs. I'm pretty happy with the way the load below shoots. Very manageable on follow-up shots. n320 is about the fastest powder that will make major without exceeding mfr's recommended loads. If that makes you nervous, I'd look at n340, wsf, or one of the numerous other slightly slower powders that will easily make major in a saami-length or less and leave you plenty of room for error. Feb 2012 .40 5.1 gr n320 (.61 autodisk, slightly enlarged) 165 gr zero jhp 1.130 oal wsp 2/9/12 chrono avg 1015, sd 8, pf 167 no unusual primer flattening (less than with factory self-defense loads, for example)

you can make major in 40 with almost any bullet weight, and with almost any powder. what bullet weight you choose will affect what powders you can use, and what will work best. Also, your own personal comfort level will affect powder choice. 180 and 200 grain bullets seem the most popular, with some folks also shooting 165 grain. stacks of threads in this forum about 40 major. If it makes major in any other gun, it should make major in your m&p (or come darned close).

Wandered in there to browse and saw they had cci primers on sale. I just bought 9000 winchester primers, but I can't pass up a deal on something I know I'll eventually need, so I bought 1000 to play with and experiment on my new chrono.

it might not be unfair or unreasonable (especially for folks that are serious about idpa), but I still think it is counterproductive, and if enforced would turn away 'dabblers', some of whom will eventually become more serious. The 1-day membership solution would imho be more productive than either ignoring the rule (which most clubs seem to do) or strictly enforcing it. It would also give IDPA an opportunity to contact these 'dabblers' and know who they are and encourage them to eventually join. But... whatever, I've become reasonably serious about it, so I joined IDPA (after 4-5 matches).