P.E. Kelley

"except the barrel is now on it's last dieing gasp, 26,000 round or so," Kurt Miller OK Kurt, now we all know your secret! Practice!!!!!!!!! I employ your same thought process for Heavy Metal ammo. Surplus 308! Front Sight will have a piece penned by your's truly covering just this subject. Build or Buy? Feeding the Heavy Metal Rifle Show me a man who has shot out a barrel and I'll show you a rifleman. PK

Heavy Metal has been 308 from concept to inception. You/we have always had the option of shooting major cal rifles (6.8 if makes PF) in Limited, Tactical or Open divisions. It is thought to be less competitive. PK

Dave, I have often though of attending The Cup. I think that the lack of local matches is a big stumbling block in promoting NRA Action Shooting. Before one jumps into the "big show"a few local matches would be the norm. We seem to have a darth of Action Pistol on northwest side of the USA. If I am in error, this would further prove the lack of promotion of this disipline. I /we seem to have little problem in finding, USPSA, Steel, Clays, Hi-Power, B-Eye matches but where does a Idaho, Washington, Montana boy shoot a Bianchi Style match to get ones feet wet? I know this does not answer your post but it is on topic. right? PK

I have used and been sucessful with both the SA M1A and the DPMS LR308. Jerry Miculek has won a match or two with the DPMS 308 Kelly Neal has won a handful or two with his DSA FAL Tate Moots DPMS 308 Angus Hobdel AR 10 Robert Wright (R and R targets) DPMS and or Bushwacker 308 Kurt Miller has kicked all forms of butt with an M1A Pros and cons in every platform just try before you buy and see what fits you! PK

The firing pin problem was supposedly traced to a manufacturing defect (improper shoulder radii) on the first couple of runs of said pins. As has been said pick up a "fresh" one from Brownells and you should be good to go. PK

Answer: It is not. At least by us who don't know any better PK

My minimalist modus operandi: LOTS O' AMMO! I shoot Glocks because they need nothing. Load and shoot and shoot and shoot. Simple mind, simple method. Have fun PK

These two lads have consented to have me test and evaluate some of their work. Look for the article in the Front Sight before years end. PK

I have read the thread and if ryucasta has them on order then why did DP tell me that I could not as they only have "long range plans" to manufacture them if at all. Just wondering if I should call them back. PK

I am confused, I just got off the phone with Paul @ DP and "only the SMALL frame magwell is available" I quiried him about the large frame and " they may but it is a long range plan" So how are you guys getting them? PK

"A scoped .308 sounds like Tactical class with a major power factor. Why do we need another division? I propose that "He Man/Heavy Metal"class stay with iron sights and a pump shotgun. If you want a soft shooting auto shotgun and a scope on your AR10 then Tactical class is already there waiting for you. Carbon" I agree 100%. We have never been prevented from shooting "major power factor" rifles in limited/tactical or scoped tactical or open divisions. So have at it! PK

WOW has it been 12 years!!!! I AM getting old. I remember you as a young lad striving to run with the local big dogs. Now you are one. Major congratulations mister, well done! "the real PK"

My benchmark is twice the mechanical accuracy of the firearm as fired from the bench. With 10 carefully placed shots from a proper bagged position going into 2" would make me happy with 4" groups offhand. It may sound like BS but 4" and less groups were not uncommon for me during the 50 yard slow fire phase of bullseye matches. PK

Rumor has it that the DPMS 3gun will begin August 18th. Back to back again with the Rocky Mtn. Aarrgh! Put these with the possible 3G Nats in August and I would have to quit my job to attend them all and I want too! PK

Canon D20 for the better work an older G2 for the impromptu. Canon ZR85 for Dig/Vid. PK

OK, time to rise from my f’ing DQ funk and add my two centavos. RULES: 3 gunning is a game! A great, fun and labor intensive game! Game defined: “a sporting or other activity in which players compete against one another by following a fixed set of rules”. I have been playing with guns for over 40 years and since 1987 have shot many local, state, national and international competitions. From international Air and Standard pistol and NRA’s bullseye to Highpower and small bore position rifle. Bowling pins, handgun metallic silhouette (in every form). And a slew IPSC handgun, shotgun and 3gun competitions. Even a few sporting clay events for good measure! Many of the aforementioned competitions were shot back to back with some on the same weekend, so my knowledge of the rules and the consistency of their application was MANDATORY! I think it would benefit most of us to have consistent rules within the 3 gun community. Why? As you may have read in the Front Sight (but that is doubtful as only two of us read every issue) I penned a piece that mentioned the problems faced by a fictitious character who was on his way to a major money match win, when he found out that “range equipment failure” was NOT a universally accepted re-shoot! This is but one example of many. Without some level of consistency what financial chances are you willing to take with rules that may be made up on the spot? Don’t think it can happen? Recall a recent major 3gun match where some shooters were told “to avoid a miss penalty just shoot a round in the general direction of the flying clay that may or may not be available from designated port”. Unless of course it WAS available then you had better hit it to avoid said penalty. Or some of the oddly severe and match crippling penalties for failing to hit disappearing clay targets. These are fine at the local “sandlot” but not something that we should find at a major match and especially not something we should hear for the first time at the shooters meeting. Rules and equipment guidelines need to be established and understood before we invest our capital. The USPSA (as most seem to agree) has improved their 3 gun game, mostly I believe because the “outlaw” matches have shown the way. Our USPSA representatives (Bruce Gary) have watched, listened, learned and worked to employ these lessons. If my friend Kurt is willing to shoot the USPSA 3G Nationals then things must be better! SHOTGUN IN 3 GUN: KEEP IT! The shotgun not the handgun turns out to be (in the context of 3gun) the hardest gun to master! I for one will not rest until I figure out how to reload the dam thing fast enough to keep up with the big dogs and learn to quit missing so as to not affect more of those dam reloads! Stages beyond 27 or 28 rounds tax me as more of a test of where to store ammo than a shooting problem but thankfully these stages are rare. I really like the shotgun and feel it is a viable and versatile thinking mans tool that should remain an integral part of the consummate 3 gunner’s repertoire. Sorry for the extended post it just kinda spilled out. Thanks for the space PK

"The add for XM193 should be titled "The day I quit reloading .223" It is all I have shot out of my rifle this year at every match I've attended and it hasn't let me down at all. I have tried 3 different lots and they all are 1/2-3/4 minute of angle out of my limited rifle. like PacMan said XM193 biggrin.gif biggrin.gif KURT" This is great advice considering Kurt's improving skill! Now, if you all want great advice just listen to a guy who has either won or nearly one every 3 gun match he has entered! Hmmmm.... that would be....oh ya KURT!!!! Got anymore tips for me and my M1A at Nationals??? eh buddy? Thanks KURT PK

Not quite the case. Reduced recoil loads were designed to help law enforcement with shotgun qualifications. Less recoil = less problems with flinching = improved qualification scores. Similar to how the 10mm FBI lite load was born, hence the 40 S&W I believe the founders of our sport used a "Ballistic pendulum" a Colt Commander and military specification 230 ball ammo to determine "major power” factor. We do not take into consideration the "magic bullets" or "blood and guts" tests of today. It is really simple; major loads are generally more difficult to control than minor loads so better scoring opportunities are the reward. PK

Thank you, Gunny and Lawman for your words of wisdom. We as players of a game have become lax in our adherence to our rule book. It is incumbent upon US to know and follow the rules (USPSA , IMG, etc.) not to see what we can get away and place the burden of keeping us within the rules on our volunteer range officials. The only precedence set is our collective failure to police ourselves. It has been mentioned on BE and written about in Front Sight that 520 is the shotgun power factor. It makes no difference, rifle, pistol or shotgun, shooting minor loads and requesting major scoring is a disservice to the competitor who knows and complies with the rules. This is NOT directed at anyone it is for everyone. PK

Yes please. The times and points as found in last years results format. PK

I have only experienced the "zone" a few times. I strive to be "consciously competent" and if the auto pilot affects of the zone happen all the better. PK

Hey guys look over the photo albums for pictures of your friends and maybe one of yourself. Feel free to use the comment section. Check out the "shooter shirts" for fun and maybe a laugh. www.multigun.com PK

Heavy Metal... ok... He-Man, 18" DPMS LR-308 righ rise flat-top. DPMS clamp on shorty rear sight. Front sight is a Lyman globe, screwed and glued to an old gas block fitted with extra set screws for a lasting set up. Slapped the ONLY 5/8's - 24 thread comp Brownell had on the muzzle (some of you noticed my tactical star washer under it). JP trigger piece only which trips a stock hammer with an extra power spring to help light Mil-Surp ammo. Winchester 1300 "practical defender" with a one round mag extension. G21 otherwise stock Glock with a Seattle Slug and plain Heine's. slowly drawn from a Blade Tech DOH (my fault not the holsters) My first time at the RM3gun and Whittington. What a GREAT match and fantastic staff!!!

Yes please, as a Heavy Metalist who uses 1981 Argentine Mil-Surp 144 grain ball let us not get carried away with whopping over the top PF's My ammo makes 340 (the old rifle major) just fine. The Blazer 230 and Fiocchi 1560 fps slugs that I employ are He -Man enough thank you. PK

Here is why IMHO scored separately and then combined is not the proper method in the sprit of fair chase: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iron sight shooter “A” works his butt off against (and only against) the other top Iron guys and wins rifle stage #1 with a time of 30 seconds and for that earns 100 points (100%) Iron shooter “B” places second with a time of 37.5 and picks up 80 points (80%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scope / Tactical shooter “A” works his butt off against (and only against) the other top scope / tact guys and he too wins rifle stage #1 with a time of 25 seconds and for that earns 100 points (100%) Scope / Tactical shooter “B” places second with a time of 30 and picks up 83.3 points (83.3%) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now the match is over and the stats people combine the Iron group with the Scope group. Iron “A” gets 100 points Scope /Tact “A” get 100 points They tie for first yet the scope guy shot a 16.7 percent better score! Scope / Tact “B” shoots the SAME score as the Iron “A” and gets 16.7% fewer points! Iron “B” is happy to pick up 80 points while shooting 66.7% of the scope / tact guys score. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So…..I say score the match separately without combining and if not enough Irons show up for a stand alone division then only award the “high iron” Or, if we want to have one winner then run it heads up with only one stage winner not multiple. Scoring separately and combining is not a true representation of who won. Heck, run it all heads up then separate out the divisions and award as appropriate. This method can alter placement within a division as compared to scored separately but if you want to know how you faired overall then this is the only true test. This is how SOF scored and I think RM3gun and SMM3gun scored and combined the Iron and Scope/ Tactical into one division. This is a great forum The RM3gun was a great match!!! Thanks PK