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It's a 16lb spring from the factory. To get it off you need to clamp the assembly into a vise or hold it solidly with some channel-locks/vise-grips or something and using a nut-driver and some elbow grease you can loosen the hex-nut at the end that'd be towards the front of the gun (pretty sure it's a 1/4" hex IIRC). ISMI Glock 17 springs are the same spec but be careful going below a 13# (even then, watch it, as M&P's will unlock just by shaking them with a 13# that's seen some rounds, honestly the 16# stocker after 1000+ rds is pretty good IMHO). FWIW, as far as I can tell, M&P's are not as similar to Glocks as one might think, they're practically single-acton comparatively which is why the striker-spring strength being matched to the recoil spring isn't as critical as in a Glock, however, they lock-up "shallower/gentler" and fall out of battery real easy with lighter recoil springs so be sure and ask yourself if it's really worth it. Use some loctite on the screw when you put it back together if you plan on keeping it captured.

Sure I read it here somewhere, but can't remember who exactly came up with it... Worked awesome so who ever said it, thanks!

This, or the Brian method (at least IIRC his method, know I read it here somewhere) of sticking and peeling scotch tape on your clothing a few times to pick up some fibers than slapping it on your shooting glasses over your non-dominant eye (so you can still see with both eyes but blurring the weaker one out to make things easier), this was a breakthrough for helping me get adjusted, and after doing this for a week or so I moved on to the squinting like Duane said, then finally, nothing at all, now I don't even think about it and do not see double anymore. Worth a try...

Not the only way. My SP-01 is 38.9oz with a comp hammer, tactical rear sight, Dawson front sight, flat mainspring plug, 11lb recoil spring, 13lb hammer-spring, and VZ G10 grips (FYI, CZ-Customs lists them at 1.4oz, they're lighter than that, mine feel near as light as the plastic ones which are listed at .6oz), with factory 19rd mags. Maybe I lucked out and got a light one... A Shadow may be harder as it's got more metal in the slide where a FPB is on an SP-01 (I'd trade the weight advantage for the shorter reset though in a heartbeat), who knows, maybe the SP's smaller safeties help a little too... What's funny is I weighed my gun when it was pretty clean, now you've got me wondering if the grime from a couple hundred rounds would put it over...

I can't help you with the 17 rounder's weight but a 9mm Mec-Gar 19rd AFC is 3.4oz. Thanks though, as that helps. According to CZ-Customs the factory 9mm 10rounders with the plastic towards the bottom of the tubes are 2.6ozs, and I've read elsewhere here on benos that the factory 19rd 9mm mags weigh 3.0ozs so there's a start...

Anyone know what each of the different magazines out there for the CZ's weigh? Also, since I know many of us have to deal with the ridiculousness of lightening stock guns to get SP's and Shadows to make weight for IDPA SSP since although their uppers and lowers are different and unique to the SP-series models they're really just a "factory modification of a regular CZ-75" and their rails are really "full-length dustcovers" (not "rule-bashing", just poking fun), having a list kicking around of what the different mags weigh may be helpful to other guys besides myself as each of the different variants are slightly different weight-wise. Specifically in my case, I'm wondering about the Mec-Gar 9mm AFC 17-rounders as they go for half the cost of the factory 9mm 19-rounders, but since my gun just makes weight for IDPA with the 19rd mags if they're any heavier I can't use them. I'm going to pick up some more mags and I'm trying to figure out what'll work out best... Thanks in advance.

Now I know what I want for Christmas. Thanks.

To each his own, "different strokes for different folks" as they say. I have no doubt that a regular DA pull is faster, I just don't necessarily think it has as high of a probability of being accurate so if one decicided to thumb-cock on the way up after the draw it might work out better, for some guys, some of the time... BJ, I agree with what you're saying about the possible "disaster factor" entering into the equation and also that maybe a -1 DA beating a thumbed-to-SA 0, that said (and I'm only speaking for myself here), on stage 3, strings 1 & 2, if I know I'm going to do it and I am prepared to thumb-back the hammer as my gun comes up after it's cleared the holster, since the strings require drawing then leaning out from behind cover, after the buzzer sounds, I'll have the hammer-back in SA-mode and be acquiring my sight picture real-close, if not in exactly the same amount of time as it would take for me to leave the gun in DA, and if you were to factor in the slow pull I'd use to ensure a good first hit, I'd bet that in my case the thumb-cock-into-SA would likely save 2 seconds or more (assuming the DA's aren't -3 or misses) against getting -1's pulling DA for the 2 required 20yard shots I'm talking about. In my experience stage 3 is "make or break", and I'd be more worried about the possible "disaster factor" of getting -3's or even being off the paper on the 2 DA shots at that distance while going fast. For me, string 3 from behind the barrel, I'd probably just shoot it DA as it's 5 yards closer. Let's not beat a dead horse here, I think either way is ok depending on the particular shooter, and if in the future I get more confident in my DA-accuracy at further distances while on the clock I may change my tune... to be quite honest, I'm still really new to even having a DA pull to think about as up until now it's always been Glocks or 1911's for me, in fact, if anything, I've actually been really surprised in how good my DA hits have been thus far in matches, so who knows..? maybe I'll come around sooner rather than later.

Think most of us use the ISMI flat-wound springs, order a 13lb one for a Glock 17 and it'll work captive on you M&P's rod, you'll be GTG.

I don't think there's really much difference if both types are evenly matched in their quality-of-build and fitting, but that said, as far as the slide-in-frame vs. slide-over-rails configurations, I remain skeptical, as I have seen with my own eyes quite a few mass-produced $500-800 CZ's and Tanfo's match or beat the accuracy turned out by $2k-3k+ hand-fitted slide-over-rail guns, so there may be something to the theory of more/longer rail contact or what's going on there maybe having an edge...? Think these days many shooters can mitigate any front-heavy advantage as far as controling recoil is concerned with their choice in springs.

I came over from the darkside kind of knowing that if the CZ didn't run similarly to what I was used to I'd be getting rid of it regardless of whether or not I shot it better... Well, that was a couple months ago and I'm still shooting the CZ and actually have traded off or sold a bunch of my Glock stuff for CZ stuff. I've put 3000rds through my SP-01 without a single bobble cleaning it for real only once in that time, and I shoot it way better than I ever did the Glock, I'm pretty happy. Like you, I looked into what to look out for and have planned accordingly, so in my range bag along with tge usual stuff tgese days you'll find; an extra trigger-return-spring, an extra slide-stop, an extra-power extractor spring, a JIC slightly heavier hammer-spring and an extra extractor as well as a couple punches, phillips , small hammer, etc. - hope for the best, plan for the worst, but if the CZ has to eat a few small odds and ends to do what it does I'll live with it as I've never shot/ran a better gun.

Yes, but you're not going to go very far doing that. Learn to manage the DA first shot and you'll be much better off. The name of the game is making a choice of what works better for a given situation, balancing accuracy with speed. So think what we're talking about is that there may be certain situations where thumb-cocking the hammer in order to get the higher probability good hit from the easier-to-shoot SA mode makes good sense. Not saying to not practice DA shots, just saying on a limited COFwhere you cannot make up shots and misses can destroy your score, using up a half a second to get a "0" might be the better move sometimes, as for most of us a "0" at 25 yards may be say 9 out of 10 shooting SA, where as even with practice that average will go down shooting DA, say 7 out of 10 or worse...

This. That said... As far as I know, and I've asked a couple long-time SO's about this, there's no rule that says you can't cock the hammer back with your thumb for an SA first shot if you want to. I haven't shot a classifier with my CZ yet but pretty sure I'll thumb-cock for SA on stage 3, for most of the strings in 1 and 2 it'd cost more time than it's worth, but at 15-20 yards might work out better if it means a 0 instead of -3 or worse.

+100. I'm not a fan of any of the rules that have us changing stock guns in order to make weight. It sucks that asking for "rule improvement" always gets taken as "rule bashing".

I dry-fire mostly SA, some DA. Most times I rack the slide in-between pulls to teach my finger/brain where the reset is. As far as I understand it both DA and SA dry-fire wear on the gun a bit, DA on the trigger spring, SA on the firing pin spring, so factor dry-fire into your equation on when it's time for you to replace them.

Think it's just whole top-ends for $475, if I can get just a slide I'd do it, but if a whole top-end is my only option I'd rather just make my current gun into a sick SAO and pick up a Shadow sometime in the future when I come across a good deal. $475 for less than a 1/4" less reset travel is pretty steep, or, to put it another way, $475 for my pistol to feel and work exactly the same as it does already but be considered legal is pretty steep. What's kind of funny is I'm more of an IDPA guy and I kind of screwed myself as I did some research but apparently just not enough, I found articles saying that since the older "custom shop" sp-01's were offered without FPB's, removing them was allowed as long as the gun made weight for SSP, then other info saying how it was easier to get an SP-01 to make weight than a Shadow... Well, seems that changed and HQ then said it was only ok if the custom shop removed the FPB and then that changed again once a proper Shadow started being made and I figured that out too late. I can see how an SP-01 in IPSC Production with it's FPB removed is not considered legal as it is called "Production" after all and that's the whole idea, what's got me, is that in IDPA the whole reason an SP-01 or a Shadow have to make weight for SSP is that for some reason IDPA considers there rails a "factory modification" to a CZ-75 (which it isn't), and beyond that, different hammers and triggers like the comp hammer and 85C triggers are allowed as they're offered on other related models, so in-turn since related models are offered without FPB's it'd make more sense under their own logic that removing FPB's from the others would be ok rather than not ok. Rules are rules though so it either goes back in or I pony up the loot for a Shadow or an 85C. What sucks is now that I know what it's like with out the FPB, a few hundred bucks seems more reasonable than just reinstalling it and shooting with the longer reset. Epic fail.

I'm not saying "ignore the rules and screw everybody, just go ahead and cheat", I just mean if that's all you've got and you're a casual shooter out shooting for fun, if you're up front about it most guys in the local clubs (mine at least) could really care-less... I would of-course let it be known that you're aware of what you're shooting and let it be known, as undoubtedly there will be some range/game-nazi's or guys who might not be able to get over it. You bring up a good issue though, it sucks to find out in hindsight that you'd be better off with a different model gun based on the rule books after the fact, as there are probably more than a few guys who find out later that their new $600 gun needs to get traded or sold off at a loss to pick up the $800 gun do to what really amounts to semantics... I know in my case I picked up my SP-01 on impulse as i found a good deal on a used one and just figured for sure that removing the FPB would be ljust fine and legal in both idpa and IPSC since Shadows and 85C's are made without them and work the same, only to find out later that I was mistaken and now need to spend a few extra hundred bucks just to get what amounts to the same exact gun function-wise and safety-wise that I already own but with a different name to be legal. The rules concerning these particular guns is pretty subjective in this case IMO, but it is what it is... I'd just throw the FPB back in if anyone had a problem with me using it without making a fuss. Reminds me, while on the subject, anyone know if CZ will just sell a Shadow slide? Would be nice to not have to get a whole other gun if I didn't have to...

The biggest difference is the reset, without a FPB (like in a Shadow) it's half as long as you could ever get it with a FPB in there. The pull is ever so slightly better weight/quality-wise as no FPB means 2 less springs in the way of breaking the sear but IMO that's not really that big of a deal, but that said, if you shoot a Shadow or an SP-01 with it's FPB removed you will not want to go back as the reset is just awesome, short and crisp like a nice 1911 but with a bit more "snap" that leans more towards what you get with Glocks (which is a very good thing). Also, the decocker guns just have more going on clockwork-wise and if you're seriously after the best trigger you can get you'll want to stick to the traditional CZ DA/SA with a thumb safety (preferably without the FPB). If you're going to stick to local matches only and aren't going to get too competitive just removing the FPB from a standard SP-01 is a cheaper route but it'll be illegal in any kind of "official" or sanctioned match, since the Shadow is born without it from the start it's legal and GTG.

If you're going for a .45, it doesn't matter IMO (but with either, since I know you're a Glock-guy and you're well-versed in what's out there as far as sight options, you'll probably be looking to John Harrison for a wider-notch fixed rear sight that'll work with the adjustable LPA-cut and getting yourself a .100"-.090" Dawson front to mimic the Warren/Sevigny's that are light-years ahead of what most of the SS community is running), the Trojan's undercut trigger-guard is a plus, but is it worth the price of what a Spartan has to offer?: I'm not so sure. In 9mm, arguably, the Trojan's ramped-barrel would be the better option for achieving the best reliability with the shorter OAL round, but that said, it'd still be pretty likely you'd have to cough up some extra cash for an Aftec and spend some time and money figuring out whether Tripp's or Wilson ETM's will work best with your particular gun after you've most likely wrecked a couple ejectors... If you're seriously after a 9mm gun with most of the 1911-attributes of a crisp trigger, etc, that most of us are after, than you should be already taking a hard look at a CZ Shadow, unless of course you're also looking for a new hobby that can get pricey... as from what I've seen, all the 9mm 1911's I've seen out there don't work very reliably regardless of what you spend...

Not a bad deal by any means, but here's the thing: the mags and holsters will run you around 250-300+, just get over that... the real sticky thing will be once you get to check out a non-decocker model, and/or a legal-W/O-FPB Shadow you will be kicking yourself that you didn't pony-up the extra couple hundred bucks or held out for an honest-to-goodness Shadow. JMHO, but I've got my Sp-01 as close to a Shadow as possible and not being able to use it in sanctioned matches with the FPB removed is already breaking my heart and having me thinking up ways to come up with the cash for a Shadow and make my current gun a fun SAO. Just my 0.02.

+1 What Flex said. Just like a good thumbs-forward grip, or keeping both eyes open, what feels counter-intuitive at first will feel "right" once it's "burnt-in".

http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=23553.0

FWIW, the "re-curve" trigger that comes on the standard SP-01's makes the reach even shorter, by maybe 1/8-1/4"

Haven't had any problems through mine's first 2500rds, but have been wondering the same thing when loading mags, think I may just order the +10 springs now and change 'em out before I see any bobbles. OP, sounds like some may be born with tighter chambers than others, like everyone else has said, go to a 13-14lb spring for a few hundred rounds and then bet you'll be just fine going back to running the 11.