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Larry Davidson still offers his "Shredders" they're just not shown on his site... they're probably the most aggressive I've seen (and look pretty trick too), that said, my all-time favorite 1911 grip is skateboard tape over the smooth Alumagrips, for me that's the best thing out there that I've found and is what's going on my new build.

I decided to contact Metalform as it occurrd to me that if there were indeed 10 rounders out there with the ramps, then why had I heard so little about them and why isn't everybody already using them...? I'm kind of in the same boat as I don't reload, so there are times that I end up shooting what's available, not necessarily what my gun is exactly tuned to...

I was looking at the same thing, emailed Metalform and they told me the only mags they make with the integrated feed ramp are the 9rd "springfield" mags (9FR-794), none of their 10rd 9mm mags have the ramps (noticed on Dawson's site it says the same text under all the Metalform 9mm mags, think it's a mistake). 9rd mags that don't nose-dive are better than 10rd mags that are iffy IMHO.

Thanks a lot for this, it's all too rare to get an honest review of how a gun is performing (or not performing) from the owner without it being overly biased towards playing up the positives and playing down any negatives.

Weights are the thing with the Shadows, at least when it comes to IDPA. While I'm glad they're offering the new one, really just leaves me thinking "what the hell ever happened to the Combat II?", that's what I was hoping for...

Ha ha ha ha lol!!! You must be being sarcastic or haven't dealt with EAA's customer service before...

Know you mentioned you're aware that not all guns are perfectly square, that said, might be worth taking a look to see that the hammer pin holes aren't drilled crooked requiring you to maybe stone the sides of your hammer..? I only mention it as while everyone knows STI's are quality pieces, I do know of a guy who tracked down light-strikes happening with his Trojan to the firing pin hole having not been drilled straight through the breech, pretty much a fluke and he's said STI's going to take care of it under warranty and he might end up with a new slide... sounds like you know what you're up to, but remember, s**t happens... Good luck.

Anyone else out there who owns both a Shadow and a Trojan 9 who could share their opinion?

Actually, to be EXACT, they list the new one (short dustcover 75 Shadow) at 2lbs 7ozs (39ozs) empty with a 19rd mag, not sure if the stock/base Shadow listed at 2.6lbs is with a mag or not... Even more confusing: the Shadow Custom is listed at 2.4lbs (just under 39ozs) with no mention if it's with a mag or not...

blindbat, I'm not cheap, but think I get what you mean... maybe just used to Glocks and $400 pretty much gets you a whole new gun with those... that, and that I'm not new to CZ's at all, I agree with you about the awesomeness of Angus' competition hammer and have my fair share of conversions and upgrades to them and that's what makes me feel the way I do about it. Guess what I was trying to say is that in this particular case the 75 Shadow is pretty much just a 75B SA with no FPB, lighter springs, and a competition hammer installed... so the $400 premium is pretty steep considering there's not nearly the amount of hand-fitting and such that's going on into putting a good 1911 together, and that I or anyone else familiar with CZ's could put pretty much exactly the same gun together for less than $600 if removing the FPB from a CZ-75B SA was allowed within the IDPA rules, in fact, Angus himself has mentioned on another forum that they're not true "custom shop" guns, they're just assembled from components here in the US, I gathered his point being that they're not cherry-picked or blessed with the same attention to fitting and such as their other custom shop models. Point is that in the CZ's case the price-tag has more to do the models exclusivity of having the NO-FPB slide which satisfies certain gun-game rules over really anything else, whereas in the Trojan's case most of the time I only hear praise of how well-fit they are when compared to guns costing $3K and such... just an observation. If the 75 Shadow cost maybe $700+ like it probably should then I'd buy two of them, "Value" is a consideration, that's all. Since you've got both guns I'm looking at, which do you like better and/or which has given you less trouble? Thanks.

Guys, do me a favor and pretty much whoever has had experience running both 9mm 1911's and CZ's please share your thoughts... as I'm still trying to decide on which way to go. I keep going back and forth as while I have indeed decided that getting a CZ to run reliably will be easier and is much less of a PIA, I'm still not convinced that's the best move to sink my money and training into as paying as much as $400+ over a garden variety "B-model" CZ just to get a NO-FPB-model does seem a little ridiculous... An STI 9mm 1911 has a certain amount of value that stays with the piece enabling one to get a fair amount out of it if one was to choose to go in a different direction and flip it to pick up something else down the road, while justifying the higher price-point on an upper echelon CZ is a harder thing to quantify and is really only going hold much of it's worth if it's going to end up going to another CZ-enthusiast. I can really only afford to kick down around $1500 (+/- $150) or so for a whole set-up (mags and holsters too) if I want to still have enough in the tank to pick up as much ammo as I want to and still be able to travel and afford match fees and maybe a class or two this year (and still stay married )... so the value of what I get bang-for-the-buck-wise matters... If dealing with the ups-and-downs of fighting with the 9mm 1911 is worth it over the long haul, then maybe that's a better move over spending my budget on something that's more of a niche platform that I'll just end up moving away from anyhow down the road...?

Need more intel please... I pretty much swore off Tanfo's after fighting with mag BS for long enough, this might change that...

Blindbat, I'm looking to do the same thing and to a man everyone I've asked says it'd be legal to make the new 75 Shadow SAO and have it be legal for ESP. The flat trigger is legal the same way the competition hammer is, it's offered on a related production model (CZ-75 SA Target) so we're GTG. Why make a no-FPB DA/SA CZ an SAO? Less than 3mm total trigger travel: about 1.5mm to break, 1mm reset... so nice it's scary.

the main difference with a custom shop/mink gun and a home gun is the reset length. polishing it up and tuning the springs is no problem. i rarely clean my gun - when it was really dirty i had a friend with a pull gauge and i think it was 7/3. i cleaned it and it got lighter in the pull. reset is short, but not as short compared to the ones that roll through the custom shop/mink. does the short reset really matter? not for me, but i suck lol. If you mean you are considering a "Factory" Shadow vs. a "Custom Shop" Shadow than your reset distance and feel will/should end up the same when everything is finished. The main change you'll need is the competition hammer, as while a stock "Factory" Shadow's hammer is good and much better than an SP-01, it's not quite up to how good the competition hammer is (Angus' competition hammer is a must-have for any CZ owner IMHO, just worth every penny). Both the guy's at the custom shop's work as well as Matt Mink have fantastic reputations for a reason, and if you're at all squeamish about the prospect of tearing down your pistols than the extra dollars to have the pros handle it might just be worth it... That said, I'm an advocate of one learning how to tear down one's gun soup-to-nuts, and don't consider the CZ's a real difficult platform to work on, so if you're up to it it's worthwhile and not too difficult (yeah, there's a couple small springs that you won't want to lose and a few things that get easier with experience, maybe tearing-down inside of a big plastic bag for the first few times until you're comfortable isn't a bad idea, but all the info you'd ever need is out there and think you'll find most CZers are willing to help you if need be).

+1 what Stu said. I myself am waiting on what the news will be about what the new 75 Shadow will be approved for too, so at least know you're not alone. Regular Shadow is great, but if you play IDPA more like I tend to, then not having to worry about the "Shadow diet" and running crappy grips and such or possibly ending up shooting for fun instead of for score at a sanctioned match (even if only in ESP for now) is a welcome option. Think I'm going to install an SAO trigger and have maybe the baddest ESP gun out there for IDPA and play in Limited minor for USPSA. As far as the extra mag with the original Shadow goes remember this: the new 75 Shadow comes with the competition hammer already installed (something most do to an original Shadow too) so the value is a wash if you're not into working on your own CZ's, for those of us who are, guess a $100 premium to get something a little more "exclusive" is no big deal (especially if it makes it more worthwhile and possibly encourages Angus and co. to keep pushing through more models we want that aren't already offered like these one's... Stainless 85 Combat with newer higher-upswept-beavertail-frame next please guys!).

NO. A Shadow with a 13lb hammer-spring and competition hammer installed will have a DA pull between 5-6.5lbs and will be as smooth as a top-shelf revolver... combine that with the greater weight and better ergos and you may find that even in DA mode you can best your M&P accuracy-wise (I've owned a couple M&P's with all the Apex goodies and they're not even in the same league as a Shadow IMO). Besides, even if it was tough (which it's not), after that one and only DA shot, the SA is just a thing of beauty...

You've really got to keep on eye on things if you're going to try running the 13lb recoil spring with a stock-strength striker-spring, it'll work for a little while, but guys running that set-up with success for any real length of time is pretty darn rare... some of the things to watch out for that are signs the 13 is getting over-powered by the striker-spring are: problems with the gun failing to return to battery, the slide "wiggling", shifting, or just looking strange while dry-firing it, and/or getting light-strikes and off-center primer hits (sometimes called "primer smearing"). Ignore those signs and you could be in for it as a Glock can and will fire out-of-battery and that would be bad for just your gun at best, or your hand and or well-being too at worst. The 15 is a more reliable and safer bet for sure. A 14lb Wolff spring works fine on an un-captured stock Glock guide rod ,but Wolff springs in my experience come in softer for a given weight than the ISMI's, and I wouldn't recommend a Wolff 14lb recoil spring with a stock-strength striker-spring either as the one's I've tried have all been actually a bit lighter than an ISMI 13. Not sure about the Jager rod as I do not own one, but they're advertised as working with stock springs so they should work with ISMI's I'd bet.

Exactly. If you want to try a 15lb spring it'll be safe but if the stock 17 feels good then no need to bother (IMO I prefer the 15, even more so once it's broken-in and has got more than a few hundred rounds on it). You are correct that a reduced-power striker-spring will NOT be fun if you're going to be shooting Blazer, it'll be light-strike-city. Sometime, if you do get a hold of some ammo loaded with Federal primers, try out the reduced-power striker-spring + 13lb recoil-spring combo 'cause it is indeed nice, but the pound or so difference in trigger weight you get running a stock-strength striker-spring won't hold you back much if at all.

That is something I'm considering... I never was a fan of CZ's before I picked one up that featured the higher beavertail (found on the SP-01', P-01's, 75 SA's, 75 Omega's, and think the 75 Limited Edition's), I always liked the way they fit in the hand but was never sold on how the "older-style" beavertail angled downward sort of into one's hand (I've got Med/Lrg hands), I'm going to have to pick up a "classic-framed" 75/85 and play with one a little nce more to see if the newer frame is as much of a make or break as I've been thinking it is. Honestly, an 85 Combat is legal and makes weight and such without any issues whatsoever already, they're born without a FPB so after one installs a CZ-Customs competition hammer, it's GTG with the same trigger-awesome-ness as a Shadow, slap on some thinner/better grips ala the VZ G10's or Angus' AL grips and change out the sights and I might find myself real happy and in at maybe $300-400 below my Shadow budget. Going to have to check it out... (considering aesthetics, I do far prefer the Shadows, but as I've heard said, choosing a gun on it looks is about as smart as choosing one based on how it tastes...) You and I are thinking exactly the same about this now. For me, though - I'm a bit stuck on having a gun purely for range or "game" use other than a .22 - I carry everything I own at some point as long as it's reliable. I understand that I won't win any major competitions shooting a non-tricked out gun (well, it's possible...), but I'd rather have a gun that's reliable, accurate, and familiar on my hip for competition, training, and carry. To that end, I'm swaying away from the 85C just because it DOESN'T have a FPB. I'd rather have the FPB in a carry gun than one without. I realize that limits how nice the trigger can be, but to paraphrase a friend of mine who was the '92 state revolver champ - "When was the last time you felt your trigger after the buzzer went off?" I'm like you, though - I do prefer the newer beavertail, which is why I'm looking at the stainless 75B's - they have ambi safeties and appear to all have the beavertail this year, plus a FPB. Whatever I get will either head to Matt Mink or Angus for some trigger work and most likely a hammer. 59B Ahhh... the FPB is indeed a point of contention to some, I can say unequivocally, after spending lots of trigger time with both types, that I MUCH prefer the CZ trigger's with NO FPB in place (and YES, I DO notice the difference after the buzzer goes off). I know there are plenty of guys out there who consider the NO-FPB-guns somewhat less safe, but in actuality they're every bit as safe as any 70-series 1911 out there (probably/maybe 90% of all 1911's out there BTW), and short of dropping one of the NO-FPB-guns squarely onto the back of their hammers from pretty high up or with some fairly significant force, there really isn't anything to worry about. That said, while not having one in there makes the pull slightly cleaner/ighter, the trigger reset is less than half the distance and IMHO is a HUGE difference, even on the clock I can feel the difference big time... with a FPB-equipped CZ controlled pairs (aka "double-taps") are much more work and tend to be far more spread-out and eratic, with NOFPB guns they're tight and almost effort-less in comparison. Plus, on longer shots (say multiple poppers out around 20-25 yards or so) the reset you get with the FPB-equipped guns will upset your sight picture enough to where you pretty much have to reacquire your sight picture after transitioning to the next target, with NO-FPB it's much easier (and thus faster). I ran a bunch of timed drills back-to-back both with and then without the FPB installed before I got rid of my tricked out custom SP-01... the difference in time was significant with a capitol "S" (so much so that I tore down the gun the next day and sold off the hop-up parts and gun as a NON-FPB is all I'm interested in now). To each his own of course, but I'd push you towards giving the NON-FPB guns a longer look before you make up your mind, they really are much different animals. Also, FWIW, installing the competition hammer and other goodies that you get from CZ-Customs by yourself is actually quite easy, unless you're totally un-mechanically inclined you can save a bunch by doing it yourself, installing the hammer and lighter hammer-spring, then stoning the sides of the hammer-strut-assembly smooth before install and maybe polishing up the sear is pretty much it, there's no need to be cutting any angles or anything that would take the job out of DIY territory IMO..

That is something I'm considering... I never was a fan of CZ's before I picked one up that featured the higher beavertail (found on the SP-01', P-01's, 75 SA's, 75 Omega's, and think the 75 Limited Edition's), I always liked the way they fit in the hand but was never sold on how the "older-style" beavertail angled downward sort of into one's hand (I've got Med/Lrg hands), I'm going to have to pick up a "classic-framed" 75/85 and play with one a little nce more to see if the newer frame is as much of a make or break as I've been thinking it is. Honestly, an 85 Combat is legal and makes weight and such without any issues whatsoever already, they're born without a FPB so after one installs a CZ-Customs competition hammer, it's GTG with the same trigger-awesome-ness as a Shadow, slap on some thinner/better grips ala the VZ G10's or Angus' AL grips and change out the sights and I might find myself real happy and in at maybe $300-400 below my Shadow budget. Going to have to check it out... (considering aesthetics, I do far prefer the Shadows, but as I've heard said, choosing a gun on it looks is about as smart as choosing one based on how it tastes...)

Duane, IIRC you've mentioned a bunch of times that you run reduced-power striker-springs in your Glocks as you roll your own using easy-to-set-off Federal primers... with a stock strength striker-spring installed, a 13lb recoil spring can be iffy at best, dangerous at worst. Depending on the particular specimen a 13 can go too-soft in only a few hundred rounds in one gun, while work for years and go thousands in another one. Also, with a stock-strength striker-spring installed and testing a 13lb recoil spring, I've found using the classic "muzzle-to-the-sky-reset-into-battery" method can lie to a guy... often a clean gun will pass when one that's only slightly dirty and seen as little as a box or two of rounds will fail. IMHO: reduced-power striker-spring + 13lb recoil spring = GOOD, stock-power striker-spring + 13lb recoil spring = NOT GOOD (sooner or later anyways).

You know, I've been thinking about that a lot and as much as I love the awesome-ness of a nice 1911 trigger and want to go that route, if I'm not also getting into reloading at the same time too, then I really think the 9mm 1911 will turn into more of a headache than I'm ready for and is pretty much out for now... If I could control the OAL of the rounds I was shooting I'd probably do it, but shooting factory ammo it's just not going to work for me if I want to shoot the same gun for the whole year as besides finding the right mags and getting everything dialed-in just right, finding the magic OAL usually is the last part of the recipe to really getting them to run based on what I've been told by guys I know and trust who run them (that, and an Aftec extractor being pretty much a necessity). Also, brings up another observation IMHO, if I can somehow manage to swing the expense and find the time and space to roll my own, then with the ammo-cost savings, why fight with getting a 9mm to run when I could just shoot a 1911 in .45ACP? ...as it's a heck of a lot less problematic and would actually have me shooting major in USPSA SS and be the same as a viable carry platform (I wouldn't carry a 9mm 1911). If lots of practice is the goal, in my current situation, a gun that I can shoot in more divisions and that will run reliably and drama-free is the wiser choice, looks like for me that's a Shadow (can hit IDPA SSP, ESP and USPSA Production and even Limited minor). I'm kind of asking a lot, a gun that's near as bomb-proof as my old G17's just with some of the added trigger-goodness-mojo that I seem to benefit from, but I already know from first-hand experience that the CZ will deliver the goods, so think I'm going to go that route (which has been my first instinct all along). So now it looks like I'm just waiting around to find out which version of the Shadow it'll be: new short-dustcover Shadow 75 or original SP-01 Shadow? I really love the original Shadow, but for IDPA that means dealing with the added expense and nuisance of getting it to make weight (a chore I'll live with if I've got to), if the newer Shadow 75 gets approved for USPSA and hopefully IDPA SSP (should already be legal for IDPA ESP) then that'll be my choice for sure due to it's lighter weight (that said, since I guess I'll be waiting until at least the end of January post-ShotShow for those decisions to be made, my lack of patience may just end up having me ordering up an original Shadow anyhow, waiting sucks)...

I ran (and may still go back to at some point) the almost identical set-up for a very long time... the 15lb spring will give you the slightly better sight-tracking you're probably looking for and will remain 100% reliable, with a 13lb recoil-spring and a stock striker-spring you are dead-on, it can become a guessing game as to when the 13lb spring will become too soft and start to give you problems, 15 is the way IMO (and after a bunch of rounds will get real close to what a 13 feels like anyhow, I ran one out to 6000+rds before I changed it for a fresh one without a single issue). I always recapped the stock guide rod with no issues.

That's not a bad idea Flex, you might have just changed my plan... I actually priced it out, and a Spartan w/ a Dawson front sight, tricked out with an ambi-safety, S&A magwell, 3 good 10rd mags, new holster and dbl mag pouch, grips, and with springs and misc. comes in about equal-to or just-under what a base Trojan will run me: getting into kitchen-table-reloading or buying a good used CZ too would land me right about where I'd be after getting the Trojan into the form I'd want it anyhow... Looks like I may have some more thinking to do...

Not trying to infer that I'm put off on the 9mm 1911 by any means, more just figuring out that it is what it is, a fun shooting platform that has it's advantages as well as it's drawbacks (that requires a fair amount of tlc in watching springs and mags). The CZ's on the other hand just seem even more underrated to me now though, think just about anybody who knows a good pistol (even die-hard 1911-guys) would find newfound respect after a couple mags through a CZ with a competition hammer installed, it's really too bad that the newer SP and Shadow variants encounter their trouble with some of the IDPA rules as they are indeed true 9/40 duty weapons that have many of the same attributes and niceties of the .45 custom guns found in CDP...