Alan Adamson

We have access to a silhouette range that can support pretty much anything from 200yrs to approx 600yrds. While there are railroad track section at the 100 yard increments, there are flat areas between the railroad track lines such that we can do non-100 yardages. I'm looking for a match method that can be fun and challenging, that doesn't require *surprise* targets, we aren't setup for that. I'd like to support either a flight or relay approach to the match such that you can shoot a group of shooters, all at the same time, through the match targets, in appox. 15 mins or thereabouts. The range isn't easily accessible for paper targets to be scored or reset, so if possible, we'd like to use steel... Most likely some type of self resetting steel... (we wish we could afford Larue targets, but not for now). Wonder if anyone else has thought through this approach and has any ideas... Ideally, I think we'd break out divisions by action/caliber - example... .223/auto, .223/bolt, same for .308, etc. Depending on interest, we could also breakout by sight optics vs. irons. Anyway, just looking for some ideas and thoughts? I'd really rather not have to time each individual shooter (means you'd have to shoot one at a time), but more to utilize a par time approach to a single, multi target COF... Thanks in advance, and let me know your thoughts... Maybe some have tried this and it just won't work... or maybe it's been discussed before... if so, please point me to the info? Thanks, Alan

I talked to Sean Gaines a few weeks ago, I was looking for a mag extension for an SX3 that had all the treatment (that's another story). I had a Nordic, but the ID of the extension to the magazine on the gun was the wrong diameter and shells would hang up on the seam. I also tried an extension from SureCycle, but the problem with it was that the tube was too thin and with a barrel to Mag clamp, it would squish the mag tube and the follower would stick... If it wasn't tight enough the clamp would slip on the barrel. So I tried a Briley - in a word - AWESOME. I got the version with the screw on extension so I could move from 8 to 9 rounds +1 if wanted. The mounting is far superior to other mag extensions at least on the SX3 and quality was superb. If you are setting on the fence I say go for it... these are great. I can take a picture if anyone wants to see one. Alan ps. my SX3 is a stock one that Tod Litt (a GM here in GA) took and opened the load port, welded up the lifter, stippled the grip and forearm. I then ordered a 22" SLP barrel with vent rib and he cut a 10/22 dovetail for a rear flip up sight, I put an FO rod on it for a front sight. It was then sent to SureCycle for the works, their recoil unit, sealed up the piston, tuned and polished the action etc. In its entire life, it's ran 100% on store bought Walmat Winchester or Remington club loads (2.75-3 dram and it runs all day). Plus, I can always throw on the 26" barrel and go hunting pheasants when I want

Ya, stage 1 was a bear, we'll figure out options for next time so it won't be so long to reset.... Good thing tho, there's always a first time and always a next time . Thanks Brian for coming out, was great to see and catch up for a few mins... All the best to Helen on s speedy recovery!

Randy, I noticed that you didn't shoot one of the stages, did you need to leave early? Here are the scores. Based upon the way I score, for a DNS, I simply assigned a large time, in this case 300 seconds... http://www.highrf.com/Rockets/RBGC%203Gun%20Jan.pdf

Match is on for this Saturday as specified at the beginning of this thread. Quick overview. 70 Rifle, 42 Pistol, 37 Shot (no slugs required - shot no larger that 7 1/2 range rule - although there will be some *long* steel ). 6 Stages, one being a uspsa classifier (pistol only). I've finished up stages and have 3 of the 6 built as of today... Should have the other 3 done tomorrow. Stages are here. http://www.highrf.com/Rockets/RBGC%20%203Gun%20Match.pdf

No special requirements... Come on out weather looks great... Alan

Ok, I'm going to make this call a little early... With snow back in the forecast (and at least rain) this week, not to mention today, the ranges will be just too messy to hold this match this weekend. We are officially postponed until next weekend (29th)... Same event, etc, just one week later and we'll cross our fingers that at least the sun will come out between now and then. Thanks, Alan

Quick update on this forthcoming match... All, We had a work day on Sunday, at the range - for 2 reasons, to do some actual work and to evaluate the bays given the weather we've had lately. It was about as expected. Snow still on the ground, very wet and muddy. There is a potential for 2 more days of rain this week and this may be more than these bays can handle given how new they are and how little overgrowth or grass there is. As a result. I'll watch the weather and make a final call for a go/no go for this weekend. If we are unable to go this weekend, we have approval from Mark to delay until the following weekend. So it will either be the 22nd, or the 29th and I'll send out the final word on Wednesday of this week. Thanks so much but I wanted to let you all know so you could plan accordingly.

Works great with 4.8g at 1.090 behind a 124 jhp in a CZ... 130-131 pf on the nose and shoots great. nice to have one powder for both 9 guns... Alan

As opposed to looking for a way to make the procedurals be based upon moving the briefcase, why not make it based upon shots fired with it in hand - in other words change the description to making it be in hand while shooting the drop box targets, and then be dropped in the box. Those are close enough targets that strong hand would be fine, and that way you could count the procedural for not moving it and one shot each for not shooting with it in hand on the final array. Still make it be moved, but make it be retained for the shots and then dropped. I haven't thought through all the various versions, nor the specific language, but that solves the per shot desire that some had. Alan

Match Specifics, this may get tweaked a little as we home in on the date, so make sure you check this thread, I'll try to update everything here. Thanks, Alan Match Specifics Below --------------------------------------- We are going to try this one more time... Another first! The January USPSA Match at River Bend Gun Club will be held on the 4th Saturday - January 22rd. This match will be a 6 stage 3 gun match and will be scored under time-plus rules with one exception. There will be one pistol only stage that will score as a USPSA classifier. See NOTE 1 below. Location: River Bend Gun Club Action Shooting Complex (new range/bays - signage will be provided to steer you there). Date: Saturday, January 22, 2011 (rain date - 1/23/2011 if needed) Registration at 9:00am New Shooters Briefing at 9:30am Match starts at 10:00am (Setup on Thursday/Friday afternoon, Saturday morning - please come help if you can.) Match Fees (per shooter): $25 non-member Match Fee $20 member Match fee ($5 setup discount) - for setup help either Thursday/Friday or Sat morning prior to match - redeemable day of match Divisions: Overall Notes: Declared power factor must be shot for the entirety of the match e.g. If shooting minor for the match, you must shoot minor for the classifier. Rifles must have a shoulder-able stock, no rifle caliber pistols will be allowed. a) Open Magazine limited - Pistol - 170mm total overall length Optics allowed - Yes Speed loaders allowed - Yes Tactical Magazine limited - Pistol - 140mm total overall length (see note 1) - Shotgun - Yes, max of 8 in the tube - Rifle - NO Optics allowed - Single optic on Rifle only Speed loaders allowed - NO c) Limited Magazine limited - Pistol - 140mm total overall length (see note 1) - Shotgun - Yes, max of 8 in the tube - Rifle - NO Optics allowed - Single 1x optic on Rifle only Speed loaders allowed - NO d) Pump-Tactical Magazine limited - Pistol - 140mm total overall length (see note 1) - Shotgun - Yes, max of 8 in the tube - Rifle - NO Optics allowed - Single 1x optic on Rifle only Speed loaders allowed - NO **NOTE 1**: The USPSA classifier will be shot under USPSA rules, you're declared division/power factor must be honored for the entire match, including the classifier. Remember the magazine length, holster, power factor and sight rules for that division will apply (think of it as a match with in a match if you like). If you are going to shoot 9mm minor during the 3gun part and use a longer magazine, make sure you bring your 10 round USPSA legal ones for the classifier stage. Scoring: We'll use a time-plus scoring method similar to what is used at the Fort Benning 3G match. Every paper target requires 2 hits with A/B hits incurring no time add, C hits adding .5 seconds and D hits adding 1.5 seconds. Mikes are 10 seconds and Procedurals are 5 second adds Chamber Flags: These will be required for both Shotguns and Rifles, they must be in the chamber at all times until you are under RO direction in preparation for a specific stage. Discarded Firearms: All gun transitions will require that the firearm be *unloaded* - slide racked, hammer down, no round in the chamber before picking up the next firearm. This will apply to all types of firearms and firearm transitions. We'll work to design stages that do not require a shotgun to be a middle firearm transition due to unloading requirements with high capacity magazines. Limitations: For the Shotgun portion this will be a bird shot only match, no slugs required. Shot size limited to 7 1/2 or smaller size. For the rifle portion, this will be limited to .223 caliber, no Heavy Metal or any calibers larger than .223 will be allowed for this match. There will be 6 fun and challenging stages, and stages will range from speed shoots to medium/long field type courses... Remember, one stage will be a standard USPSA pistol only classifier stage. (bring equipment accordingly) Stage designs are located here - (UNDER DEVELOPMENT - check this post later for stages) Mark your calendars, come and join us.

All, been away for the holidays. I've just about got all the specifics down... I should post all of that this afternoon. These will be on the new Action Bays at RBGC. I've got clearance, with some limitations to shoot this match there. more later. Alan

Final details being worked out, but plan right now is to have a 3 gun match on the 4th Saturday of January 2011 at River Bend Gun Club in the Atlanta, GA area. Once I have specifics worked out, I'll post here and to the local mailing lists. Due to the holidays and the close in nature, I wanted to get the word out on the date and location. Alan

I've been doing some more thinking on this idea and I came up with an even better *adder*... If you have multiple uspsa chapters in your area or even close by, consider holding this type of scored match, but broaden the idea a little... Instead of forcing teams, you could come up with a method to see which club is best... to do so, they must field at least one team (more the merrier for payment if you know what I mean)... And score as above.... BUT, and this would get a little more tricky to handle at the match... Consider the team scores counting for 60% of the total score and the individual members of a given organization counting for 40%... Then tally up both and figure out which club wins... Maybe you could consider a *club* entry fee/payment method... I'll give it some more thought and maybe I can create a schedule of payment similar to what I did with the original concept. Alan

I don't think I'd do the pins, or the other surfaces where the pins go. HC if I remember right is an additive to thickness, as a result, it will make the fit be too tight on those parts. I sent a full set of pins etc to be ionbonded, which isnt suppose to add anything to the thickness and I had to change the sear pin to a stock blue one because the one that came back from ionbond was too tight ... Alan

I leave everything on my scale and it powered up *all the time*... The load cells in these little scales is such that they will find the sweet spot (zero - tare) consistently if you you leave them all setup up all the time, and powered on... If you have one that continues to *creap* after it's been for 2 hours, with all the plates, cups, etc still on it and zero'd, I'd suggest you might want to find another scale.

Why do you think changing 1# on the spring would make a difference? It's not going to change how much gas is generated, or how the comp works, but it might cause more dot dip when the slide closes a little harder. Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that the spring would have anything to do with gas, etc... but in my gun (a new MCG 9Major, 5" no holes - seeing as I think you also have an MCG), if I do double tap drills with a 9lb spring and the AC load, I'm always Alpha, Charlie (high) - which would suggest my grip needs some improvement or I might like a 10lb spring with that load. With a Silhouette load, it's always Alpha/Alpha, but I don't like how much crud is left in the gun from the Sil load and the 2 loads are very similar for felt recoil. Hope that clears this up. Alan

One other point... for those with electronic scales, turn em on and *leave* em on, you'll find they will settle and stay, if you turn it on and off, let it stabilize *at least* 5 minutes before you put the first weight on it to measure, and even then it may creep a bit as you proceed. Alan

I've noticed that lots of people ask for starting loads, and lots of people (including myself) respond with good info. But I see such dramatic differences in basic loads from time to time that it caused me to make this post. *if* you are going to provide info, make sure you are using a well calibrated scale. If you don't have a scale that can be calibrated (with a provided calibration weight and programmatic feature), then I'd strongly suggest that you get one, calibrate your scale and then re-check your loads. Sharing info that can be as much as .2 grains off can really ruin someones day. With that said, if you are using some of the well intentioned, provided info.... PLEASE oh PLEASE start .2 grains lower and work up.... You never know how well your, hopefully calibrated scale, compares to someone else's (hopefully calibrated scale). YMMV, Alan

7.0gr at 1.165, MagTec SPP gave me 172pf in my shorty. The primers were a little flat but no flow issues. Currently using Magnum CCI primers SP with Silhouette. Graf's had CCI small rifle primers on sale for $99 a couple weeks ago and they had a buy 16# of powder and no Haz Mat charge. Always check your 9 mm brass for STEEL Cases like S&B. (you need a magnet to do this they look like brass). Your brass might be ok for practice and local matches but if you are going to Rio Salado or other major match better get some good stuff. Edited to add: Confirmation load data is AutoComp 9 mm 124gr RN MTG. Rather surprised that 7.0 at 1.165 in a shorty makes major, suspect your scale calibration might well be off... Probably 20 people that I know are shooting AutoComp in a 9 Major gun, in a shorty with holes it takes 7.2 at 1.155, in 5 inch guns (no holes)it takes 7.06-7.16 from 1.165-1.175.... oal I've ran this load in 4 different 5" guns with no holes.... 7.1 @ 1.165 behind a 124JHP MG bullet. (make sure they are the .355 9mm variants and not the .356 38 variants for 9major. 7.76g of Sil at 1.165 with same bullet is in the ball park as well for a 5" no holes gun. My personal favorite of the moment (yes, I've been working on load development) is 7.8g of true blue at 1.165 with same bullet. Recoil wise, using the same setup (9lb spring in a MCG build open gun with cone comp and Derek/Scheumanns comp, running AC, Sil, and TB, along with sp2, 3n38, and Hs6 - true blue comes out the *feel* winner in this gun. btw, I always use same headstamp brass for my load testing... Note on AC loads, while they generate enough gas, at least in my gun, I think a 10lb spring would be better than the 9 that I'm running... YMMV. Have fun, I talked to a bunch of people who shot the nats this year, seems AC was the rage there... the standard recipe was 7.2 at 1.165 -1.175 - in my gun 7.2 is 1430fps, just a smidge fast for me ... Alan

Paul, I wanted to try that mag concept as well, but ran into a problem. Curious how you solved it. a) I have Tripp *system* mags, these are the 10mm 10 round mags that he cuts down to fit the box, nice thing is they will still hold 10 rounds of 40 ... but the basepads are the tripp ones that have the extension for a gapped magwell. So how did you solve this for a gapless one? I tried an aluminum basepad from Dawson, but found the other problem, they are for mags that the basepad provides the stop so you can't over insert them, but with the *system* mags, they are longer than the magwell, so you can still over insert them.... I suppose I could get some aluminum or plastic basepads from Tripp and take a little off the extension until they fit or stopped with the gapless magwell, but for now, I'm just running the S&A and the mags as is... Let me know how you solved the gapless magwell to basepad issue with tripp mags...

Guess I should defend myself, it's Jojo's own design, he actually welds on an extension then lines it and grinds it and then buffs it out... works good... Alan

Wow, Most of this thread has been hashed numerous times so I'm surprised that you got in this situation. Here's the bottom lines - S&B is *FINE* - I shoot all I can find - BUT, you have to take a magnet to *ALL* your brass as there are others besides S&B that are brass colored steel or partial steel (bases only), and the headstamp will vary. Just go to harbor freight and get a cheap magnet and run it thru your brass either before you clean or after. Or you can pull out a magnet from a failed hard drive if you want to go on the cheap. One final note on S&B, I like it because the primer pockets are nice a tight... I do crush a few primers as a result in a 1050, but I'll take it that way vs. over used and falling out. - The issue with your round locking up the gun has to do entirely with the load, not the powder, etc. We have had this problem with a number of shortys where they are are trying to push the load to make major... No signs of over pressure, but what happens is that the base of the brass stretches from the load, and sticks it in the chamber *FIRM*. We can even repeat the problem by shooting a good load for a number of stages, and then stick an over powered load in and locking up the gun, ask me how I know.... I still yell at the shooter for doing it just to try it. - Silhouette is reverse sensitive, as much as 20 degrees will show a difference one way or the other from the same load on the day it was chrono'd... I've now proven this 5 times as I've been working thru testing some other loads for 9Major. While I have a metric butt load of Silhouette, I may not use it... in fact, testing so far shows that the recoil, both felt and dot movement, seems to be better in my gun with a 124JPH and True Blue at 1.165 oal. This has been back to back tested with SP2, Silhouette, AutoComp, HS6, 3n38 and n350. Both blind tests with me and my other open shooter friends. But each gun is different, etc. YMMV, Alan

I can do this wih my turkey scope: Tru Glo Gobble Stopper I do not own a C-More. Why would the optics need to be changed? eta: link Because the glass has a coating and tint to it, this tint actually makes a red LED look a little orange and would make a green one look a little brown I would think. Theoretically it may be possible however... A call to C-More would clear up and optics questions and perhaps they even have tried it in prototype and have some laying around.... Alan

Haven't shot enough to notice... in fact, I may never shoot it... in a 5" gun, with no holes, I've found little to NO advantage to SP2... But the little that I have shot didn't heat up the gun, what load, gun, etc? 8.8g at 1.165 oal and with 124JHP in a 5", and 9.2 at 1.155, same bullet in a shorty. Alan