Alan Adamson

I haven't run that many rounds through a chrono to note the ES, etc. But it will be hard to be my prior AutoComp load, it was always in the single to small double digits numbers. However I'll assume it's similar. Shot the match today, obviously the timing on the gun was a little different and I've got close to 3K rounds of my other load in the last 6-9 months. It took me a stage or 2 to settle down with the gun, but when I did, I actually felt pretty good with it. I went 1 for one, in a rather quick time on a start and this is the first time I decided to try to shoot it in the zig-zag pattern instead of just waiting for the next plate to come to you down one side... Even activators that were pretty quick with static paper between it the swinger or drop turner or clamshell went off with out a hitch. I *would* have shot a great classifier, but didn't call a Mike on the *draw to* target, but the time was excellent. I'm not willing to throw out my original load with the bathwater just yet, but this definitely has potential. If it wasn't for that fine yellow sand like matter that is inside the slide after shooting, it was pretty clean, even the comp was pretty decent for over 150-175 rounds shot - sorry, I've become one of those anal souls that cleans there comp after every time I shoot it... I let it go one time to 1000 rounds... NEVER again. Anyway, I want to do some more spring, etc testing, but this is a noticeable improvement..... and in the right direction.

More great info... Thanks and we'll check that... it's not a new gun, has approx 20K rounds thru it, shot by a local GM. GM finally gave it up because he didn't want the recurring issue, nor the hassle of trying to fix it. It has run flawlessly, but now isn't. I keep reading about the FPS and floating the Aftec... Care to splain that in laymans terms... this gun has always had an aftec, was built by a local gunsmith, but one who knows what he's doing... built plenty of other guns that run just fine so one would expect that it was adjusted correctly, but if I know what to look for, I can certainly do that. Thanks in advance.

Thanks for clearing up the *can cycle* question... yes I know there are a million reasons... We simple exhausted our small knowledge base... Good idea on the crimp, we'll be looking at that. No, they are 2 different loads, mine have been either AutoComp or Silhouette, and his are a Winchester powder, but I'm not sure which.... Because this is a short popelled gun, the loads are quite hot, it's not a weak load or a strong spring that is part of the issue... It never stove pipes or fails to eject, it always seems it fails to extract. the 120 rounds that he shot today was a milestone actually with my ammo, he's usually 10-15 and then out, he did change the springs on the aftec and got a small night weekly match in with his ammo - say a 50 rounds match. That was a milestone until he shot my ammo today... Actually I worked him up a load for his gun, it was 8.0gr of Silhouette with a 124jhp, we knew that 7.9g was 168 from some prior chrono work, while we haven't chrono'd this load, it should be in the 170ish PF range. Keep the ideas coming... it's got to be something relatively easy to remedy, it's *soooo* close and we have made incremental improvements with the new springs and my ammo... Alan

Normally, I would agree with you, but this is not an ejection issue, at least as best as we can tell, it's not like the case comes out, then goes back in. When it jams it's because the second round gets picked up by the slide, but has no-where to go because the fired case is still in the chamber - TIGHT in the chamber. When you drop the mag, and only have the fired case still in the gun, no manner of pulling the slide back to again capture the case with the extractor, and the hitting, ramming forward, etc on the either the slide (racking lever), or grip will case the spent case to come out, the extractor pops off of it, but with quite a bit of force to make that happen. So that's what's so bizarre, how can the slide cycle if the case doesn't move? But it seems it is... Alan

He is indeed running his reloading HOT... this is a 4.5 inch gun with holes and he's making 172PF, that's a load like 8.0 of Silhouette or similar. Alan

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=115174&view=findpost&p=1306501

I'm gonna post this for a friend, but I've been involved with it as well. I'll most likely cross post it to the gunsmith section as well. Subject - 9mm Major in a shorty with 2 or 3 holes, cases fail to extract. The problem is that *every once in a while* a case will fail to extract and yet the slide will still cycle, which sounds so *how can this happen*. The case is stuck so good in the chamber that about 70% of the time, you have to take a squib rod and whack it out and even then it's a really tight fit. All of the rounds pass a Wilson case gauge prior to being shot. The extractor has *really* good tension - it's an Aftec and you have to whack the racking lever or jam the grip forward, but what then happens is that the extractor slips off the case and the case still stays in the chamber. This is a *just fired case*, not an unfired one. Doesn't matter how clean or dirty the chamber is, we've verified that it's not an erosion issue thats letting the case go too far forward, there is still good headspace. We don't know what might be causing it. When the gun runs, it runs fine, but when it has this problem it stops dead. Current theories. - I gave my friend 200 rounds of Casepro roll sized brass today and he didn't have this issue until he tried some of his reloads which had been done on a Dillon with a Hornady sizing die. Even tho his rounds passed the Wilson case gauge, might it be that his chamber is a better checker than his case gauge? He's going to make that test tonight with a bunch more of this reloads. - He's changed the springs on the aftec and has a new one to try - do they require fitting where it's replacing an existing? - Is the Hornady die that he's using maybe bulging the cases at the bottom when he uses it to size? As a result, when the round is chambered, it's basically Jammed in to the point, where it won't come out after firing? Current experiments underway - he's going to use his chamber and a case gauge and see what of his reloads pass/fail, those that fail, I'll run thru my case pro and we'll see what the results of that are - the next time this happens, he's going to keep that case and we'll run that thru my case pro and see how tight it is Beyond that we simply don't know what else to look for, at, or try. yes it can go back to a smith for work, but we'd at least like to point him/her in the right direction... Thanks and any feedback appreciated. The odd thing is how can the slide cycle, when the brass won't move, that just seems so bizarre... perhaps is the hammer on one side a fixed steel mass, whack the mass on the other side with a hammer and the other hammer will move... in this case, the brass is acting as the steel mass and transferring the recoil to the slide, with out the brass moving??? Bizarre.

Tried some Silhouette today... Not bad... I had been using Autocomp in a 9Major load (7.1-7.14g behind a MG 124g JHP @ 1.165 OAL). I've shot probably 3 or 4K of those and it was my go to load, but that may change. I'm a 5" gun with no poppels, running a 9lb recoil spring and Derek's newest version of his 9mm Comp (3 port, no sides). I decided to try a 7.76gr Silhoutte load with the same had at the same OAL. PF was right where I wanted it. 171-172, just the same as my AC load., but dot track was much better... I couldn't tell any different in *felt* feel, but dot track was less, still up and down, but about 20% less than the AC load. I also decided to try one other Silhouette load... 8.3g behind a 115 MG JHP at 1.165. No noticeable feel difference from the above 2, but the dot track smoothed out even a bit more... NOTE, however, this load only made a 168PF, so It's needs to bump up just a smidge, which might effect it a little. Last notes, my 7.76 with 124 was more tuned to a 9lb spring than the AC load was...It probably needs a 10, double taps at 7yrds - second hit was high and slightly right. Same drill with the 7.76 Sil load was astonishing... while a little right drift, they were exactly same horizontal plane. The right pull could be me and trigger as I was also playing with trigger inserts. Oh, for the record, Zero was the same with the AC load the the 7.76 sil load... it would need to change just a smidge as it was low about a full dot with the 115 head. So tomorrow, I'm going to shoot an entire match with the new Sil 7.76 load... should be interesting ... All in all a good day...I did note one thing that I'm not thrilled about, the 7.76 load seems to leave this fine yellowish sand mixture on the barrel, and it leave the gun feeling a little gritty. the 8.3 didn't seem to be that way, and I've never had that issue with AC. Might be that Sil is a bit dirtier than AC at the 7.76 range, but with the higher pressure with the 115, I didn't notice this problem. I shot regular SPP on the 7.76 load and no pressure signs.... The 8.3 I went to SRP and they as well showed now signs... I'll try a regular SPP at the 8.3 sometime and provide that feedback back. Alan

I'd probably stay away from that 7.0grs... especially if it's at that short length. The length won't be issue per-se, but now that we know the length, most of our recipes won't work, they are for much longer lengths... you'll have to start at 6.0 and work up from there. Glad we know that now however. Alan

For a OAL how does 1.140 sound? I have been loading to 1.102 Wait, wait, wait... Is this in an XDM conversion? If so, is it really a 5" barrel or a 4.5"? The mags are going to be your issue, I don't think you can load long in them and make them reliable. I'd figure that out first... 2 things... make sure you chamber will take long... Load a round to 1.175 and with the barrel out of the gun, see if you can drop that in and not hit the lands of the rifling. If so, then see if it will fit the mag. If so, I'd run some low PF rounds at various OALs to figure out what will run in the mag, and not touch the lands of the rifling. Once you know those 2 things, then you can talk about loads. Most of us are all running long OAL's (for 9mm that is). 6.85gr of AC behind a 124/125 JHP at 1.145 will get you 170pf in a 5" no holes gun (actually a 5.5 bull barrel, no holes gun). 7.1gr of AC behind the same bullet will get you the same at 1.165. Both of those are longer than a standard 9mm round, and it will come down to magazines/chamber as to what your gun can run and what load to use... Sounds like you need to some some research first talk to Springfield or Scott at Springer to see what they recommend. Alan

if 9 Major and a 5", don't waste your time at 6.0, at that OAL, it's going to be closer to 6.7 +/- Alan

Few small other tweaks... we'll most likely setup with same side activator/action as opposed to opposite. Alan

Great Feedback Larry... Those will go, those shots shouldn't be that tight anyway so doubt much wall impacts will result... As with all these stages, final setup will tell you lots, its one thing to design on paper, another to setup and see what works/doesn't Hope to see you Saturday, weather looks to be *outstanding* Alan

Yep and revised in the original post...

All I see is a Red X I think I fixed the hosting issue, please let me know if the image is viewable now? Alan

Excellent stuff, I'm jealous One comment that I did note... that last stage in the video, looked like it required the gun to be left on the table. The AR was using a comp and I know I kept saying ok, one blast and that gun is going to get blown off the table and land on the ground (between comp blast and percussion through the table). Next time, see if the stage designers can't include a box to put that pistol, just laying on the table might not be the wisest option ...

Just a stage that looks like a house with all the attractions - hence the name - Carnival House. Start: Standing erect, facing downrange, toes touching, gun load/holstered Brief: Shoot em as you see them, PP's activate actions (see notes below), only disappearing is the drop turner Notes: Pepper Poppers can be cross wired to opposite actions or same side actions depending on difficulty. There is no round count issue from the middle forward port, the 2 paper can be taken from just about anywhere along each wall, or even from the most rear corners... Both Poppers can also be taken from the walls moving fowards. That simply leaves the 5 plates at "implied mandatory" from the middle port. Plan right now is to shoot this at Cherokee Gun Club monthly match this saturday.

Boz that would be probably right... I used Chris Pattys recipe on some trial rounds where I borrowed some SP2... 9.2 at 1.175 went 174-175PF in a 5" no holes gun... I was figuring 9.0 would do it and you basically confirmed it. How'd they shoot compared to your regular load... Alan

When I tried it out of my gun, also 5" and no holes, same COL and brass but using a Zero 125gr JHP, I only got ~1275 fps, for a 159PF. Rob, that is quite surprising... I've now got it running in 4 5" (no hole) guns, all run great with 7.1-7.2 (my load of the moment is 7.14) at 1.165-1.170 behind a MG 124g JHP. In fact, that round Chrono'd at GA State at 1387fps in 2 guns back to back. I'd check the calibration on your scale. I've not shot any zero's, but the MG's run just fine here... Most people are easily making major with 7.0-7.1. I've pushed some up to 1420fps just to see what would happen with the dot, no pressure signs with CCI SPP or Wolfe SPP I'd say try it again, it's not a *perfect* load, but it sure isn't bad either... I've still gotta try some HS6 and Silhouette, and I just worked up the load for both at this same OAL. We'll see, at first blush, I didn't see anything noticable about either of those vs. the AC load... But I've only shot 5 of both

Directions as a reference...

The River Bend Practical Shooters will be holding their October 2010 Match at River Bend Gun Club on the 4th Saturday - October 23rd. This match will be 110 round Tactical Shotgun match and will be scored under USPSA "Time-Plus" rules, but we will be supporting a pump division as well (see the USPSA website for specifics if needed). Location: River Bend Gun Club Action Shooting Complex (new range/bays - signage will be provided to steer you there). Note: Specific directions/maps will be forthcoming see RBGC website for detail in the interim. Date: Saturday, October 23, 2010 Start: Registration at 9:00am - New Shooters Briefing at 9:30am - Match starts at 10:00am (Setup on Thursday/Friday afternoon, Saturday morning - If you can help with setup, please drop me a PM with availability) Match Fees (per shooter): $25 Match Fee ($5 setup discount) - for setup help either Thursday/Friday or Sat morning prior to match - redeemable day of match Divisions: Open Magazine limited - NO Optics allowed - Yes Speed loaders allowed - Yes Limited Magazine limited - Yes, max of 8 in the tube Optics allowed - NO Speed loaders allowed - NO Pump Magazine limited - Yes, max of 8 in the tube Optics allowed - NO Semi-Auto - NO Speed loaders allowed - NO This will be a bird shot only match, no slugs required. Shot size limited to 7 1/2 or smaller size. Approximately 110 rounds required. Bringing 150-200 rounds would be good planning for the unforeseen reshoot that may take place. There will be 6 fun and challenging stages ranging from speed shoots to medium/long field type courses. Stage designs mostly credited to Alan Adamson, but with lots of input from Kevin Allen, Rob Romero, Mark Leeber, Larry Turner and a handful of others. Download the stage designs here. Mark your calendars and come join us. This is a great time of year, temps should be nice, weather will be good, and if you haven't shot a shotgun match, they are lots of fun. Help us kick off this inaugural event... Who knows, maybe we'll create a fall tradition! If you have any questions, direct them to me via email or PM. Alan

Isn't it even easier than that... We are working with these and they work just great... 2" T, and 2" top bend at 40-45 degrees...

Since I figured out the bearing mod that was referenced above, and I load 9Major on my 650, I simply have no more powder fling. It is a fine line on the tightness of the center bolt, but once setup it works great. I tried adding a Teflon sheet to the bottom of the shell plate to further smooth things out, at that time I worked on the index holes, bottom line, to little index detent and it wouldn't reliably index, I found that I would crush a case once in a while. So I just run the bearing mod on all my 650's... NOTE, there is a ebay auction usually for the bearings, but they want like $10-$15 bucks for it... the parts are approx $5 from mcmaster carr and they ship same day. Alan

Figured this section would be the most knowledgeable, but didn't know if the admins would just move my post as it has to do with the 1050 primarily. Anyway, if you've used a 1050 and True Blue, let me know on the below? http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113748&view=findpost&p=1290176 Admins, you may lock this post so the results end up where they are suppose to... Thanks, Alan

Anyone know if the uniquetek/arredondo powder bar that is recommended for SP2 (fine powders) is needed with RamShot True Blue? I'm wanting to load some rounds with True Blue and was curious if it will throw ok in a 1050 as is? Alan