kellyn

Don't forget to ask him about my AR-15 sight!! Don't worry, he'll get a kick out of it.

There are rumblings to allow USPSA limited class 3-Gun shooters to use an optical sight on the rifle but not the pistol or shotgun somewhat akin to SOF's scoped class. What do you guys think? I am somewhat torn on this topic. Philosophically, I am against such a change as I believe limited should be "limited." There should be a place for irons: a limited 3-gunner should have to master iron sights on the rifle. If you can't, shoot open. On the other hand, I have seen many shooters struggle w/ irons on shots with any degree of difficulty and then go on to blame either the iron sights or their eyes (a reasonable complaint for many older shooter like my dad). Most often, it seems that they simply have little understanding of the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship but I have heard a lot of shooters state that they would be more likely to compete in 3-Gun if they could shoot limited but w/ a scoped rifle. Increased participation in 3 gunning would definitely be a good thing. Should USPSA allow optical sights in limited rifle?

There have been instances at the USPSA 3 gun nationals where shooters using 55 grain bullets out of a 16 inch barrel have not been able to make the minor power factor i.e. shooting for no score. 62 grainers should pose no problem making minor. I have never seen a local match use a chronograph nor have I seen a chronograph at SOF or the Mystery Mountain 3 gun - although you never know what to expect at SOF. So I would not worry about it unless you're going to shoot the USPSA 3 Gun Nationals. I never worry about it b/c I shoot 69 grain bullets at big matches but I shoot plenty of 55s at local matches. (Edited by kellyn at 10:32 pm on June 27, 2001)

I am in absolute agreement w/ Brian and Duane. If we are to have prizes, they should definitely go to the person who performed the best in that match and not be split out among various "classes." The person who either practiced the most, had the most skill, luck, karma, juju, mojo, whatever should be the one to be rewarded. Dividing prizes amongst various classes only dilutes the sport. Are we competitive shooters trying to maximize our performance or just a big social club? Nothing wrong with being social or giving out prizes but when I shoot it's to be the best that I can. Besides who actually pumps the most resources into the sport - those that shoot occassionally or those that practice and comptete all the time? I'll bet that Brian has bought 500 primers/bullets/holsters/parts for every 1 that I ever bought and I'll bet that I've bought 500 primers/bullets/parts for every 1 that a "shoot once every month" shooter has bought. Rewards at matches should be doled out accordingly. I absolutely HATE the IDPA prize by draw system (although it was very funny to watch Leatham win a Gunsite Basic Pistol video at the 2001 AZ IDPA championship - I hope he starts using weaver!). I would rather have no prizes at all.

A LEATHERMAN!!!

I use a DPMS detachable rear sight on my SOF/Limited rifle w/ a Smith enterprises same plane aperture or a Bob Jones aperture. Never had a problem w/ it. I do wish it had 1/2 MOA clicks though. I've also used a GG&G MAD rear sight. It worked as well but it's lack of elevation adjustment is a handicap. Your Remington match ammo should pose no problem. The ONLY place where it really might be an issue is at the USPSA 3 gun nationals.

American Spirit Arms out of Scottsdale, AZ. They are a relatively new AR manufacturer. One cool thing that they do is build AR's from the ground up for 3-gunning. They have an Open rifle and a Limited/SOF rifle. Either would be a good choice except the limited rifle is not a flattop.

In the 14th edition of the USPSA rule book, Rule 12.1.12.1 states that the major power factor is 340 and minor is 160. Rule 12.1.12.2 states that the minimum bore that can be used is 20 gauge and it scores major - no minor in shotgun. These are interesting rules in that the have not really been fully exploited. No one really shoots a 20 gauge but I was discussing this w/ Super Robbie and he thinks that w/ a tight enough choke, 20 gauge could be competitive except no one makes a reduced recoil slug ala Remington or Federal. 20 gauge slugs actually kick more than 12 gauge reduced recoil. Perhaps there is potential for other gauges 20 or even (dare I say) 16? As for rifles, everyone shoots .223 minor. There is -of course- no way to load a .223 to major (69 grain at 4,927 fps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). The most common major cartridge is .308. .223 is certainly much cheaper, easier to shoot, and easier on guns. But perhaps there is room for another cartridge that makes major but is much easier to shoot than .308: .260 rem? a hot .243? Sorry Pat, I'll put an AR up against an open pistol, any day

Big Dave, Stock AR triggers leave a lot to be desired. I would invest in a good trigger kit - it will pay itself off in hits. Single-stage triggers are probably better for most 3gunning. Accuracy Speaks and JP are both good single stage kits. If you want a 2 stage, get a Jewell. I would put a good trigger in whatever AR you get before it is even fired. Start off right!

Remember that Robbie teaches shooting techniques to all sorts of military units. There is no conflict between what he teaches and "real defensive/tactical/practical/combat/egret-style" shooting.

You will definitely learn a lot. Don't "prepare" too much though. Don't practice a bunch of stuff that you may just be jettisoning. I would just make sure that your equipment worked. Better to be a blank slate than have a bunch of preconcieved notions. be sure to ask him "How could you lose Kelly's rear sight after he so kindly loaned it to you." :->

Sorry, don't have the lot #. I've heard that Titegroup was not temp sensitive but that's is not my experience. It is probably a combo between my barrel, the bullets and the powder. I don't really like rainiers that much either but I got a whole bunch cheap. They're all gone so I am going to try West Coast bullets. Anybody ever try Vit 330 in their .40??

I think most commonly-known AR manufacturers (Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS) do a pretty good job. I've personally had good luck w/ Colt, DPMS and Bushmaster parts. Derrick Martin of Accuracy Speaks fame does not seem to have a preference between manufacturers. American Spirit's open and limited rifles are pretty nifty looking and handling but I don't have any personal experience w/ American Spirit's products. Definitely get a flattop. If you want to shoot limited/ iron sights, I would get a same plane rear aperature (Ashley or Smith), and a "national match" front post. If you wanted to shoot w/ a scope/open class, Bushnell makes a cost-effective low-powered variable 1.5-6X, I think. Ohterwise, I would use a low-powered variable made by Leupold or maybe Burris. A free-floated aluminum or fiber handguard is better than the stock handguards - you get free-floating plus it's easier to mount a bipod. I like 20 inch barrels but many prefer 16. 16 inch barrels may have trouble making the USPSA minor power factor w/ 55 grain bullets. 16's are handier around barricades but I like feel of a 20. 20s give you a better sight radius and a full-length handguard (unless it's a 16 like Bushmaster's dissipator (sic) or ASA's limited rifle). The full-length gas system on a 20 is supposed to be more reliable and less violent that the short gas system of a 16. Most of the successful 3 gunners seem to shoot full length barrels. In a nutshell, I agree w/ Bill's advice. (Edited by kellyn at 10:08 pm on June 23, 2001)

I've shot quite a bit of Titegroup thru my .40 (180 gr. truncated Rainier, 4.7 to 5.1 gr of Titegroup (5.1 for SOF's power factor), winchester small pistol primer, and winchester cases. I like the feel of it but it does produce significant standard deviations. I usually shoot at Rio Salado in Mesa. It is also temperature or altitude sensitive - at least in my gun. When Area 2 was held in Raton, my Mesa, AZ 180 pf loads did not make major. Ouch.

Chris and Duane, I am making fun of pistol-gripped shotguns:) Ugly! I agree that the pistolgrip has it's place on a duty gun b/c it is so much easier to control w/ one hand. But it's also easier to disarm someone w/ a pistol-gripped shotgun - their grip is easier to break. Plus they're ugly but someone has to date the ugly girls. In all seriousness, speedloading the shotgun is super important at SOF, Myst Mtn, and the 3Gun Natls. Trying to rapidly load a limited shotgun w/ a pistolgrip poses quite a hurdle - the grip is just in the way. The pistol-grip does not interfere w/ the Gunsite style of speedloading (shooter maintains firing grip w/ strong hand and loads solely w/ the weak hand from underneath the shotgun) but that is not the fastest method (In fact Gunsite Instructor Mike Hughes is about the only person I have ever seen load quickly in this fashion). I don't believe that the pistol grip aids in recoil control as some claim.

Steven Pressfield's Gates of Fire and The Tides of War are the best fiction that I've read lately. Jack O'Connor is the greatest hunting/shooting author that ever lived but his best book is Horse and Buggy West about growing up in preWWI Tempe, AZ. Hard to get but worth it. Anything by John Keegan is excellent particularly The Face of Battle, The Second World War and History of warfare.Stephen Ambrose Undaunted Courage is good too.

Pretty good list so far but missing some essentials: Anything by Akira Kurasowa especially The Seven Samurai. Sanjuro, Yojimbo, Throne of Blood, and Ran are particularly good. Anything by Sam Peckinpah especially The Wild Bunch - arguably the best western ever. A Bridge To Far Dirty Harry Jeremiah Johnson Henry V Blues Brothers Animal House

Regular stocks are the way to go on a competition shotgun. It's very difficult to quickly load a pistol-gripped shotgun - as Chris notes, the grip gets in the way. I've never seen a pistol-gripped shotgun set up for speedloaders so I suspect that they don't work but I've never tried it. None of the super-squad at the 3 gun Nationals had a pistol-gripped stock. Plus IMHO, a pistol-grip looks really ugly on a shotgun!

Jon, I don't really know. All my guns are threaded. I have no experience w/ pins. I suspect that pinning would be ok though. I would contact Derrick Martin or Jake Kempton of Accuracy Speaks and ask them.

I think that it is important to watch most of the process of the shotgun speedload. I don't turn the shotgun 180 degrees - maybe 140-160 degrees. I leave my weak hand in roughly the same position on the foreend. I then bring the shotgun to the area of my lower rib cage with the barrel pointed slightly downward. My weak arm folds up against my chest. IMHO the most important thing is to get the right engagement/angle between speedloader and bracket. Really look at what you are doing when the loader contacts the bracket. Then be aggressive with the load. Don't hedge it. Once the load has started (hopefully successfully), I turn my attention back towards the targets. I probably have the 2d round in the gun when I start to look at the next target.

I really like JP comps. Yes, they are ugly but they work. For a limited legal comp, I like the Accuracy Speaks Jakenator. I have an EGW which works pretty well but I had to have the exit hole enlarged. When shooting the comp w/ the factory hole, it "overcompensated' the rifle pushing the muzzle significantly downward. I adjusted it by shooting my match load (69 grain Sierra Matchking at 2900 fps) and then having Derrick Martin cut the exit hole slightly larger -shoot, cut, shoot, cut - until the rifle shot pretty flat. I still don't like it as much as the Jakenator though. Rob Leatham has a .223 w/ a Mini Y Comp. It's also a good comp.

I like to "cross train." Go shoot something else: skeet, clays, highpower, palma, silhouette, 3 gun, archery, whatever. Most other shooting sports (except the shotgun ones) are more accuracy oriented than IPSC. Anything you learn knocking over a ram at 500 meters or hitting an X at 600 can only help your IPSC shooting. As for pistol shooting, I would start focusing on any weak points: accuracy, weakhand, strong hand only, or whatever they may be. This will give you some new hurdles/challenges to direct your attention to.

me a "Rifle Master" and Mike Voight a "gatherer." Now that's funny!

Brian, I agree when shooting offhand but I still prefer right to left when prone especially w/ a bipod - much easier to drag it than push it. When shooting offhand at the Challenge did you use Tubb's approach method or did you try to hold on the targets? I am trying to master the approach method but I am having trouble. Sometimes it clicks, sometimes it doesn't. It's definitely different.

I'm no master handgunner but when I am getting ready for big matches, I shoot every local match that I can (2 or 3 a week) and try to do practice session every weekend. That's probably around 1500 a month. I don't shoot 1500 rounds every month though, probably 4-5 months of the year. The other months it probably ranges from 0 to 1000. After a series of big matches I also put whatever guns I was using down for a while and play w/ something else (hunting, sporting clays, or my favorite: shooting my 10/22 offhand at challenging steel). I don't think there is some magic number. One thing that almost every really good handgunner has told me is that you don't really need to shoot that much to get good. However ALL of them have shot a GREAT deal so I don't really believe them! You can learn a great many of the necessary skills w/o firing a shot. The draw, mag change, going prone, movement etc. can all be learned very well w/o 1 round expended. However some live fire is necessary. 1 thing I have learned is to not shoot too much in a practice session. Keep your practice session focused on certain skills and limit the number of rounds fired to 200-300 and no more. (Edited by kellyn at 7:42 pm on June 2, 2001)