kellyn

I hate to disagree with Super Dave and Ken Hackathorn but I kinda do. I fully agree that the support hand drives the gun from target to target but I don't agree that the majority of force applied to the shotgun should be with the firing hand. The more tension on the firing hand that you have the less trigger control you will have. Sure the shotgun USUALLY takes less trigger control than the pistol but you still need some modicum of it. I'm from the pull/pull school as well - with the majority of the pull coming from the support hand.

If you want to shoot heavy optic, then look to another rifle. If you want to shoot heavy iron, it's hard to beat an M14 with just a good trigger and narrow front sight.

Keep this thread focused on the rifles themselves and the companies' support (or lack thereof) for the shooting sports and take the observations about the personalities involved someplace else.

Pannone and his X7 beat me and my JP in a local match so they can't be all that bad! I've shot 2, Pannone's and the one at NW Multigun. Both worked. I like the coating and I really like the lower receiver design with the flared mag well.

When you've had to resort to BUIS in a 3 gun match, you have already lost. That being said, I do have Troy and Magpul BUIS on some "tactical" ARs. The Troy are better, the Magpul cheaper.

Easy guys, Texas is big enough for two carbine matches.

Get back to where you belong!

Very well made and even innovative rifles, but not built for competition. At least the X7 was not. I do think this company has Huge potential.

Isto is the Dolph Lundgren of Irons! He can certainly add beating Kelly Neal to #7!!

That's certainly true. IPSC shows the true dangers of one overarching body. What a mess. That being said, I still favor some sort of consistency, especially with equipment rules (as opposed to scoring) in the 3 gun world.

A friend of mine has one of those. Pro's 1. IF you have astigmatism its a good option. 2. Its a scope so it will work without batteries. Cons. poor battery life, eye relief is not unlimited like a true red dot. Personally give me an Aimpoint over the Prisimatic. Pat I don't even have a battery in mine. One pro of the Pris is lens quality especially compared with the Eotech. I was doing drills was another shooting shooting an Eo. When it got close to dusk, I had 10-15 min more shooting time as he simply could not see the targets (MGM lollipops at 100) with his Eotech. Another pro is the crispness of the etched Pris dot as opposed to the pixelated Eotech dot. It is quite a bit easier to engage farther targets with the Pris as it has a "cleaner" reticle. Are they all acceptable sights? Sure.

Why not shoot a Leupold Prismatic and crush them both?

It is eye "relief" that you are referring to, not "relieve." T.Nyland has it correct. Put the scope in the rings on its highest magnification. Go prone. Move scope until you have perfect eye relief and tighten it slightly. Then go to the lowest magnification. Check eye relief. Do the same drill through all the standard shooting positions. It is important that you have no eye relief issues when the scope is on the lowest magnification and you are in the standing position - since this is how you will shoot the majority of targets. Make sure the reticle is vertical, tighten it down and zero it. Then zero it again. Then check your zero. Most people mount scopes too far back. This makes them have to pull their heads backwards to see through the scope when shooting prone.

Kind of a vague question. 1) Get a skinny front post. Maximize sight radius if possible. 2) Zero your rifle at 300 3) Look at your hold overs and hold unders at various distances on a ballistic computer. Then confirm on the range. 4) When shooting make sure that the front post is centered in the rear sight (SIGHT ALIGNMENT). When you see the SIGHT PICTURE that you need to see (Have visual patience), break the shot. Learn what sort of sight pictures are needed for what sorts of targets adn distances. Manipulate the trigger without moving the rifle. 5) Accept that you will have a wobble area (although with irons it is harder to see than with an optic) 6) Shoot from the steadiest position that you can if it is a more difficult target presentation 7) Repeat. Go on to defeat Kurt Miller, Isto Hyyrylainen and Mika Riste.

Your question is too vague. What kind of rifle matches are you interested in? Sniper-esque? IPSC/Practical? Highpower? F class? If sniper-esque is the answer, you need to research the local matches in your area and find out what sort of distances they are shooting. Then you need to get good zeroes for those distances. Gearwise I would say you need 1) a spotting scope 2) a shooting mat 3) a good shooting sling 4) a bipod 5) windmeter 6) ballistic calculator 7) rear rest (as easy as a sock filled with sand) 8) good ammo 9) good ammo 10) did I mention good ammo But check with your local guys before buying anything. And then zero your rifle again.

Rules of thumb: 1) If using an optic, either zero at 200 m or whatever your BDC reticle calls for 2) If shooting irons, zero at 300 m and hold 6 o clock on everything.

I've used my shooting partner as a rest during team shoots. In fact, if that photo is of the IBPO Law Enforcement 3 gun in Pueblo, Colorado, those guys are copying my team which did so first. It was a 4 man team match which ended with some mid range rifle targets that could only be engaged sitting, kneeling or offhand (this after some prior physical challenges). If you don't have a rest make one! We had 2 team members go brokeback prone and the other two (me and John Paul) use them as rests. Worked out great! As for the sitting position, there are really 3 ways: open legged, cross ankled or crossed leg. I always preferred open legged for 3 gun as it is fastes to get in and out of but cross ankled and crossed leg are probably a bit more stable.

+1 on that! I've never had an extraction issue with Hornady Steel Match. The only issue that I have had with Steel match is that one of my JP triggers (set very light) will not reliably set it off but I have 2 other that do.

What you really need is a good zero.

First off, I 100% support the idea that equipment rules should be made consistent. Tac Scope (or Open, or HM or Tac Iron/Limited)gear at match A should be the same as in Match B should be the same as Match C etc. etc. I appreciate the arugment that IMGA is quick and easy. It is. It also rewards very sloppy shooting. It is a scoring system in which 2 D hits is called good shooting. In fact, 2 D hits may be great shooting as it can be done very quickly. Anywhere else: USPSA, IDPA, LE training, Mil training, such sloppy shooting is penalized. You could win an IMGA match and never even hit the A zone! IMGA scored matches have long struggled with making long targets worthwhile. Take Stage 5 as AR15 Pro Am. You could easily shoot 70-80% of the top score by simply firing 4 rounds at the LR targets w/o really engaging them (and then you get into issues as to what is an engagement!). Sure it was not the way to win the stage but it was safe and easy and carried no risk. Superstition Mountain constantly struggles with this issue. Witness the "Burkett" stages of old and even the mysteriously tossed Stage 7 of the last SMM3G. Talk of having some smaller steel targets or some more hostage scenarios out there does not really address these issues as BY FAR MOST of the targets in any match will be IPSC Metric targets. These issues are solved by Horner scoring which requires that the shooter actually place accurate hits on EVERY target and that the shooter actually engage and hit the long range rifle targets. I don't necessarily agree with making the stages worth different point values based on number of guns. I agree that all stages should be 100 points. That being said, stages should not be so short in duration that 1 second equals a massive amount of points. I would say 20 to 30 seconds is about as short as a stage should take under the 100 point system. I also like San Angelo-ized Comstock scoring but I am against major/minor in 3 gun. It will not be good for the sport if we all have to purchase some .30 AMU Super Gremlin rifle where brass costs $1.00 a piece and nuclear scientists have to load the ammo (Coming soon: Hornady's .30 Super Gremlin Superperformance where every match - local or major -will cost $500 just in rifle ammo!). Sure the hardcore will all get them but it will just kill newcomer participation and make an already expensive sport that much more expensive. 5.56 and 9mm are the reality and we should gear our sport around them. They relatively cheap, low recoiling, fun to shoot and even proven in battle.

I very much disagree with notion that medium or even heavy rifles are somehow slower to transition. That is very much a personal preference issue. 7.75 lbs plus scope, mount and magazine will equal a ten ish lbs rifle which is just fine. If you want lighter, you can get it but a DPMS 3G1 is hardly overweight. That rifle will do you just fine. If Tac Scope is your division, you definitely don't want a 1X optic much less BUIS. Get a variable. If Tac Iron/limited is what you want to do, then the Aimpoint is fine. And you still don't need BUIS.

In prosecution we call that a difficult yet knowing and voluntary choice (do you want to waive those rights OR ELSE?), not duress.

If you are resorting to BUIS in a 3 match, you've already lost.

I want all my competitors to shoot AKs.

You are SO cute. Getting a man to Mars is easier than getting the various matches to coordinate a rulebook.