Browning Hi Power

[Patrick Sweeney]

OK, here's the deal: I've got a Wayne Novak Hi Power on the way. Built on a new-production FN gun (cast frame, beefed-up slide) it is supposed to be more durable than older guns. (Bruce Gray figures the old guns were about 15,000 round guns)

I have a mountain of 9mm ammo. The object of the exercise is to see if I can break the gun. Lots of shooting will be range practice. but I'll be shooting some matches with it.

The question is, since I'm shooting Minor, my un-enviable choices are Limited or Lim-10. Which to shoot? At best, with a CPMi mag extension, I think I can get a mag up to 16-17 rounds. That s*cks compared to a Lim-10 40 shooting Major and 19 rounds but it might not be too bad. At least in Lim-10 I'm not losing capacity.

Which would you choose?

(I tried to make this a poll, but I'm obviously under-caffienated to manage that task.)

[ima45dv8]

Tough question. Considering the HP mag and magwell relationship seems to cause reloading issues for so many people, it would seem to make sense to go Limited where you could reduce the number of required reloads. But if you have enough familiarity with it to reload in a hurry, then Lim10 would seem the best choice.

I remember reading about a mod some people do to the mags to make them easier to insert for speed reloads. It involved removing some metal from the front corners of the mags; sort of a V-shaped cut that went down maybe .75"-1.25". Are you familiar with this, Patrick?

...Mark

[tightloop]

Shoot L10 with it, but if you want it to last, don't make it your match gun....

[Flexmoney]

I'd go L-10. But, I have never tried to hit a reload with one. On the flip side,there is this...running out of rounds with a 16-17 extended mag might put a shooter in more of a "panic" reload than a scheduled reload in L-10.

I also shoot steel, some NRA Action Pistol, and a few other matches where 9mm isn't at a dis-advantage...and ten rounds per mag is enough.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Tightloop: The whole point is to "make" it my match gun, and put three or four years worth of competitive shooting and practice through it in one summer.

ima45dv8: I've never had any problems hitting the magwell with anything. I guess its years of practice with a single stack in the old days without any kind of a funnel. I'm not worried about that.

Flex: From years of shooting revo, I don't think panic even enters the lexicon about running short of ammo.

I was just wondering if folks might have an insight fromt he Minor viewpoint. I know at least one Michigan State match was won in Limited by a shooter shooting Minor, but anyone else tried it? And would Minor even matter in L-10?

I know one thing: I'm going to get really, really good at falling plates and El Presidente this summer.

[Nik Habicht]

Patrick,

I wouldn't worry about the mag capacity disadvantage in Limited ---- unless you're going to see ton's of "shoot eight through this port, then eight with steel through that port" course designs. If stages are are mostly freestyle, you'll find appropriate places to reload. You might need or want to throw an extra load on a 30+ stage than other limited shooters, but I'm convinced you'll be able to find a place where that's doable without having to do a standing reload.....

As far as minor's concerned --- no worries. You'll just be learning so you can kick butt when you decide to try production with that S&W 910 tackdriver.....

[Gary Stevens]

Patrick,

I have played with the HP quiet a bit, and really like it as a gun. The square mags are somewhat hard to load in the perfectly square grip, but I am sure you will work it out. Your only downside is the minor PF, but I think I would go with L-10 and bear in on the A-Zone.

[Matthew_Mink]

Open with 9mm major. C'mon, why didn't you think of that??

[John Baier]

Hey Patrick, if you need someone to help burn up some of that 9mm that you have stockpiled, I'm your man . that being said I would go the L10 route. Side note: I'm trying to figure away to shorten a 30 round beretta mag to the 140mm mark to use in my elite II so I can use it in Limited.

[Jake Di Vita]

I'd say Limited 10. Although minor PF will screw you pretty bad.

Everyone says minor allows you to shoot faster, I firmly believe after shooting in Production for 2 years that minor forces you to shoot slower.

[hopalong]

Like Matt Mink said...... 9MM MAJOR !!!!!!

Then you will really be testing it out.....

.40 S&W Hi-powers come with 10 round mags if you don't want 9mm major..... (L-10)

but where is the revolver???? you going to shoot the Browning at the World Shoot?

Hopalong

[Bear1142]

Patrick,

As you've enumerated, you have two distict liabilities, minor PF, and less than ideal magazine capacity. Shooting L-10 will eliminate one of your liabilities. Shoot high A counts and you can reduce your other liability. The extra reloads for shooting L-10 works both ways. It will also increase the number of potential mistakes by your opponents, creating more opportunities for you to capitalize on their mistakes. I see L-10 as your only real competitive choice.

Erik

[ErikW]

The Eriks concur.

[Patrick Sweeney]

"The Eriks concur." Omigod, isn't that one of the signs of the coming apocolypse? The BHP practice/death spiral is in addition to my practice for revolver glory at the World Shoot. So, Sam, you get no slack on the wheelgun front.

And the idea is to see if the new guns last longer under normal, continuous use. We already know that the BHP doesn't last long with 9mm Major, we proved that back in the late 1980s.

[Patrick Sweeney]

You've probably read the earlier post. So, which category do I shoot in, while trying my best to run a BHP into the ground?

[IPSCDRL]

Not sure about category but you should shoot it in Limited-10 division.

[Flexmoney]

I screwed up Patrick's poll with my un-practical and un-tactical keyboard.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Looks good enough now.

[Patrick Sweeney]

The gun just arrived, and my resolve is weakening. This gun is just too pretty to hammer into scrap. I'm going to have to steel myself to shoot the snot out of it.

[Flexmoney]

Does this help...

HP are a waste of materials. They are a fluffy-girl's gun. Pretty...but not so functional.

Good thing you aren't going to shoot it. It would fall apart anyway. The only "shooting" it is good for is "shooting" pictures of it.

Prove me wrong. Until then, I won't even consider it over a Hi-Point. Life is too short to waste money on a gun that can't hold up.

[mcoliver]

Take a good picture of it first as a remembrance of how it used to look.

[banjobart]

Shoot it in IDPA ESP division. It will be entirely competitive. Come to our three Caboodle Shoots this year at CCRC in Williamston where it will be entirely competitive also; 50 steel targets plus 50 shots on paper per run, single stack friendly.

[Patrick Sweeney]

First update: this thing is scarily accurate. I just put 146 rounds through it (one full load of each of the magazines I have) and with some of the ammo I had no problem tagging the 100 yard gong. One batch of ammo I went ten for ten, standing.

[Zerwas]

I'm glad you brought this up because I have a CZ75B-SA (single action) that I can't use in production. Like you, I am forced to make a decision if I want to use this pistol in USPSA. Lim-10 sound like the way to go.

[MasterLefty]

Patrick,

Run it in open. (I voted for limited though, limited choices.)

I have never competed, in limited, with a major gun. The most it ever hurt would have been 8 places.

The key items are:

Make your shots, don't miss (wish I could do it without misses)

Recovery is faster than with major, and if it is tuned right you can run it like an open gun.

Watch your squad competition crash and burn trying to keep pace (at least until they learn that you're minor, that was lots of fun when I was C Class.)

I ran a Browning GP Competition for 4 years in the 80's. Wonderful little gun.

Here is a picture on the old workhorse, without comp.

Kenny