Dillon 650 powder die sticking

[1911FL]

Hello,

 

  I would be grateful for any input. 

 

 I am reloading 40 on my Dillon 650. 

 

 I use two toolheads. One for case prep and one for reloading. 

 

 My case prep toolhead consists of an EGW undersize Die in station one and nothing else. 

 

 My reloading toolhead consists of universal decal in one,  prime and powder drop in 2 , power check on three, Redding competition seating die in four, and Lee FCD on five. 

 

  I use range pick up for brass but I separate by head stamp.    Then I tumble and then lube and then process on the first toolhead.

 

 Then I tumble again to remove the  lube . Then on to the second tool head for reloading. 

 

 However, the press does not run smoothly at all. I isolated the problem to the brass sticking to the powder die.    I am only putting on just enough bell, that is not visible to the eye, but allows the bullet to sit on top of the case. 

 

 However, the press  sticks really bad on the upstroke as I remove the brass from the powder  funnel .  

 

 Any ideas on how to smooth this out? Should I add a Lyman M die to the first tool head to open the case mouth a little bit. That way I can back off the powder  funnel/ bell?  How have you guys worked around this issue?

 

Thanks for any and all input. 

 

JP

 

 

[muncie21]

If you have already checked the powder funnel to ensure it is the correct one for .40 and there's no burrs on it, I would see if the stickiness is caused by something you're doing during brass prep.  Run a spent round or four through the press to see if you're still having the problem. If so, remove the powder funnel to verify the issue isn't the powder die itself. 

 

If none of that helps, call Dillon and after you get it fixed, share your new found knowledge with the rest of us reloading mortals

[Sarge]

If you do a search you will find hundreds of posts regarding this. It's common with the Dillon funnel. Myself and others have listed all of the tips and tricks to make it all but go away.

  Using the Udie makes it worse. Not lubing cases makes it worse. Not learning how to power through it makes it worse.

[cvincent]

I don't have that with Mr bulletfeeder funnel. I wet tumble and use one shot.


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[Shadowrider]

17 hours ago, 1911FL said:

 Any ideas on how to smooth this out? Should I add a Lyman M die to the first tool head to open the case mouth a little bit. That way I can back off the powder  funnel/ bell?  How have you guys worked around this issue?

 

The Lyman M die in your first toolhead should fix your problem.  I've ran both the M die and the DAA powder funnel which will do the same thing only in station 2.  The M die you have to watch because if your powder charge takes up a lot of space (fills the case) it will be crushed be the M die's expander.  You can grind it down a fair bit but my 9mm powder is very a flake powder and it just won't work with the M die.

 

I don't run two toolheads so I have to use lube in the case.  Hornady One Shot won't foul powder or primers so that's how I solved the 650 sticking issue.  You'll really like the M die or DAA powder funnel, they make inserting a bullet really easy and they don't fall or tip.  Just back off you Dillon PF on your second tool head so it doesn't add more flare.

[Edge40]

If your running two toolheads I would just bell with an m die or whatever you want on the first tool head. You could try polishing the dillon expander but it seems this is kind of ineveitable on a dillon. 

[fbzero]

I had this problem a while back and it was greatly improved by chucking the U-Die, and then further improved by using Hornady One Shot.

[zzt]

The problem lies with the Dillon powder funnel and too clean brass.  You don't want to 'power through' on the upstroke, because that leads to inconsistency.  When you reclean your brass for loading, place a very small amount of Dillon Case Polish (the blue stuff) in the media.  You only have to do this once.  If that isn't quite enough, go to a Mr. Bulletfeeder 2-step expander/funnel.  That will be the best $35 investment you make on your 650.

 

I buy my 40 brass from a guy who does a very thorough job of cleaning them in soap and stainless steel media.  They are beautiful, but stick when you try to reload them.  I tumble them for 30-60 minutes in white rice media that originally had a dab of Dillon Case Polish worked in.  After that tumbling, they reload smooth as silk.  BTW, I use the 2-step expander.

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, zzt said:

The problem lies with the Dillon powder funnel and too clean brass.  You don't want to 'power through' on the upstroke, because that leads to inconsistency.  When you reclean your brass for loading, place a very small amount of Dillon Case Polish (the blue stuff) in the media.  You only have to do this once.  If that isn't quite enough, go to a Mr. Bulletfeeder 2-step expander/funnel.  That will be the best $35 investment you make on your 650.

 

I buy my 40 brass from a guy who does a very thorough job of cleaning them in soap and stainless steel media.  They are beautiful, but stick when you try to reload them.  I tumble them for 30-60 minutes in white rice media that originally had a dab of Dillon Case Polish worked in.  After that tumbling, they reload smooth as silk.  BTW, I use the 2-step expander.

How does powering through a small grab lead to inconsistency? What kind of inconsistency? There is nothing happening at that time in the process. I have done this for years and have seen no ill effects.

[zzt]

Sarge, I found that it jostled the powder and changed the drop for the next round, and sometimes two.  It isn't much- usually 0.1gr or 0.2 at the worst, but it is there.

[Sarge]

30 minutes ago, zzt said:

Sarge, I found that it jostled the powder and changed the drop for the next round, and sometimes two.  It isn't much- usually 0.1gr or 0.2 at the worst, but it is there.

Hmm, maybe I can get my SD down from 8 to 5 or so!?

 Seriously though that's what that "klunky" powder mechanism is designed to do. I can't imagine a small bump has as much effect as that herky jerky fail safe system.

[MikieM]

They are almost always over-size.

Take the powder drop tube and chuck it up in a lathe, drill press, hand drill, or what-have-you, and polish the heck out of it. I use fine Emory at first followed by Blue Magic on the Dremel to finish. Stick a sized case over the end, from time to time, and when it slips over with ease, you're done.

The AA step tube isn't necessary at all.

 

[sigsauerfan]

On 09/09/2017 at 11:21 AM, cvincent said:

I don't have that with Mr bulletfeeder funnel. I wet tumble and use one shot.


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this.   using one  shot  is  the  key  for  a  smooth  action of  the  press...yes  a  case  may  stick  a  little  here  and  there, but generally  one  shot  is  of   great  help  for  a  smooth  action.

[kalaur]

This is one of the disadvantages of the 650 vs the 1050. One option is to do like most 650 users, learn to be smooth on the handle. Some brass will stick more than others. The EGW undersize die is probably the culprit though. The Lee carbide size die is pretty good, sizes down further than the normal dillon dies, but doesn't undersize as much as the EGW. Unless you have a specific reason, you may not need the undersize die at all.

 

If you ditch the EGW and go lee for sizing, hit the brass LIGHTLY with hornady one shot lube just before loading it into the casefeeder. No need for running the brass through the 650 twice, load the lee die in the main toolhead. The oneshot lube dries enough for it to not be a problem after loaded. The little bit of lube that may get on the inside of a case will also help with the upstroke coming off the flare die. Just don't overdo it with the lube or it can get sticky when it dries.

 

If you insist on using the EGW die in a separate toolhead, so you can cleaning the brass after, try the flare die from the 1050 in that first toolhead, then switch to the 1050 powder funnel in your second toolhead. Still twice as many handle pulls as needed, but smooth sailing.

[L3324temp]

Make sure you dry tumble with case polish and don’t tumble more than 1-2 hours. If you allow some carbon to remain inside the case this shouldnt be an issue.

 

 

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[muncie21]

I find that .40 loads more easily and smoothly on my 650 than 9mm, using off the shelf Dillon parts (no polishing, etc.).

 

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say one of two things (or perhaps a combination) is causing the issue.

1) The Udie or how it is set

2) Your case prep/tumbling process

 

Easy enough to verify, eliminate one or the other and run through your press and see if there is an improvement. 

FWIW, I load both range pickup (practice rounds) and once-fired (match) LE brass w/out using a Udie and haven't had any issues.  Nor do I use case lube for straight wall (external, I realize the 9mm is tapered internally) pistols rounds.

Edited October 28, 2017 by muncie21

[cvincent]

I find that .40 loads more easily and smoothly on my 650 than 9mm, using off the shelf Dillon parts (no polishing, etc.).
 

I'm seeing this as well. I run a digital clutch of 2 in the mark 7 for .40. And a 4 or 5 loading 9. For reference I run a 5 When I size and trim 223. It is quite an increase in resistance. Standard Dillon dies.




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[cvincent]

Also I buy 5 gallon buckets of brass from a supplier, all I do is wet tumble and run it through the 650. Dillion size die, MBF powder funnel, Redding comp. seating die. Lee FCD. I don't even case gauge anymore. I look at the rounds as I'm loading them in the mags. Sometimes the bullet gets some shaving or a slightly damaged case from not being lined up properly when sizing. I catch those visually. Not one issue in my guns. STI edge and an Infinity with AET.


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