PRanta Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 My CM is made in 2011. Newer ones might have different recoil springs. CM's slide is lighter than Shadows', but Shadows has shorter stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bthoefer Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I did some video analysis of the Czechmate firing. It cycles EXTREMELY fast compared to a 1911/2011 style gun. Using 240 FPS video, I can see that the stock Czechmate takes 5 frames under recoil for the slide to stop and then 7 to return to battery (12 frames). That is 5 hundredths of a second! After stroking the gun and using a flat bottom firing pin stop, I gained 1 frame under recoil which made 13 frames total. I guess that is a decent percentage but no where near my 2011 style open gun. A heavier spring will slow the slide under recoil but speed it up going back into battery. Which part of the recoil cycle is breaking slide stops and barrels? It's hard to say exactly. it looks like the impact of the barrel cam against the slide stop at the end of the opening cycle will in the long run break the cam, or the stop. so i think it is during opening and not during closing. the impact occurs quite early during the slide cycle, when the cam drives the barrel down and unlock the breech. so at this stage the spring is still not very compressed and even a stiffer spring will probably make a small difference in the force of the impact. not sure what stops the slide at the end of the cycle, but i dont think is the slide stop. a more powerful main spring might make a difference, but will also affect other things, like trigger, wear of the sears, firing pin, etc... perhaps a different compensator can achieve better results without all the mechanical complication? how about angling the ports a bit rearwards so it works more as muzzle brake? 5/100 of a second is a very short time for humans and cheap cameras , but if i can locate a suitable sensor, i might try to rig up a logger capable of recording slide action across time. i play with microcontrollers in my free time. a 10khz sampling rate should be more than enough granularity to show speeds during the cycle. that would exactly show how things move, how fast, when and where. actually, i could even using an accelerometer. i have one in my trick box, not sure it is capable of 10,000 samples per second, ill look it up. this could be an interesting project....i would be surprised if this hasnt been done yet, actually... i am surprised to hear that the 2011's cycles slower, with all the holes and slots that are milled in the slides to make them lighter. on the other side, everything is thicker and heavier in the 2011. faster cycle is supposedly a good thing, isnt it? all the people who tested fire the CM say it flips and recoil less than the STI. Even with slide weight, recoil spring, etc all being equal (wich they are not) 1911/2011 design guns have a longer slide stroke. Every time I shoot my 1911 it initially feels slower cycling than my CZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTP_Shooting_Sports Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Even with slide weight, recoil spring, etc all being equal (wich they are not) 1911/2011 design guns have a longer slide stroke.Every time I shoot my 1911 it initially feels slower cycling than my CZ. Absolutely. The stroke is much shorter. The old CZ gunsmith said the CZ design will cycle at 1200 RPM full auto which seems to line right up with my crude data. I have an STI and two Czechmates. In 9mm, the Czechmates feel softer and the trigger out of the box is much better. The grip size fits my hand better. The Czechmate is more accurate. The slide fits inside the frame which gets it lower and unlikely to be stopped by your thumb. The only downsides of the Czechmate are breakage in the barrel and slide stops (hopefully fixed by new barrel design) and less aftermarket support. They also don't offer 38 super. With an STI, you have hundreds of options for parts and caliber choices. With the CZ, you have CZ and CZ Custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bthoefer Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 My CZs are the only guns I've never had an issue with my strong hand thumb riding the slide and causing malfunctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianmarko Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 the code and microcontroller are ready, im waiting for the linear pot and then i will glue it to the slide and plot a curve i am able to capture 850 samples in 95 milliseconds, so it should be about right to see the slide motion across time not bad for an investment of 1.5 dollars of micro and 10 minutes of coding and tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinZA Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Aaah .... data The engineer in me is excited to see results Sent by Jedi mind control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfturner Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yeah no doubt ... what's the data look like? Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianmarko Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 still waiting for the linear pot to generate data resulting data will be samples with roughly .1 millisec granularity and .06 mm resolution. expect a curve where x axis is time and y axis is slide position. then someone more less math challenged than me can generate other curves. this assuming the pot can withstand the stresses of an almost full travel back and forth in .05 seconds. Yeah no doubt ... what's the data look like?Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianmarko Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 finally got round to run this test you can find pics of the rig and an excel sheet with the data in http://gianmarco.dyndns.org/varie/cz 850 samples were taken in 95 msec the cycle duration is exactly 47.3 msec, i will do the same test using the original, softer spring to see the difference i have generated a curve, looks quite boring actually, i would have expected the opening cycle to be faster than the closing cycle. looks quite simmetrical after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianmarko Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 i have added a sheet inside the file, for the soft spring cycle time is longer, at 58 msec. opening time looks similar, there is a slightly longer time the slide stays at the back stop, then the returning in battery is slower. so doesnt look like the opening speed or time is affected by spring force, which seems to affect mainly the return in battery so is there any point in having a harder spring to preserve barrels? not sure. might even be counterproductive sheet 3 shows the two curves side by side i am not sure and could be an artifact of the measurement rig and the eventual slop (is not 100% rigid of course) but it could be that with the harder spring the slide doesnt reach the full travel backwards... might try another measurement with the harder spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdd817 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) A couple questions: 1) What are the weights of the two springs? 2) What are the units of measure on slide travel? It looks like the softer spring had about 5% more travel than the stiffer spring, that might not be enough to affect feeding, but an interesting thing to watch for. edit: using letters for outlining doesn't play nice with emoticons Edited March 10, 2016 by jdd817 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianmarko Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 the springs are discussed earlier in the thread. i dont know the weight, i suspect the soft one is 13 pounds and the stiffer one 17 or 18 the travel is measured using a 20k linear pot with a 60 mm travel or so. the travel is digitized from 0 to 1023, where 1023 is full rearward travel and 0 is the slide in battery. there is a little play in the whole rig. of course this is a relatively cheap pot sourced from ebay and not a precision transducer, but it seems to work ok. i didnt think it would. feeding is very reliable for both springs. max travel might have been affected by the disconnecting of the slide racker from the pot to replace springi will do couplemore tests with the stiffer spring to see if the measurements are consistent. might have something to do with the length of the spring when fully compressed. i am not sure where the slide stop, at full aft travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianmarko Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 i have measured the pot travel, is exactly 60mm so every increment in travel, on the Y axis is 0.0586mm the X axis, time, is 0.1117msec per unit. so at 12msec, with the hard spring, the slide has travelled 38mm. thats around 3m/sec, or 6mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarksideCZ Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 What about a hammer shape opposite of what they do on the "cammer hammer" for 1911? Instead of cutting a swoop into the hammer to increase leverage you could build a rounded hump into the hammer to counteract the increase in leverage as the slide moves rearward. You could really cut it into any shape you want to slow the slide where you want in the cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianmarko Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 im not really going to modify the hammer...is an expensive and critical component. im waiting for the "new" barrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregT Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I thought I was alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamge Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Not alone, it is fairly common. CZ Custom had spare threaded Czechmate barrels last I checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTP_Shooting_Sports Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Has anyone broken the new style barrel yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemmo Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Not that I've heard. There are lots of czechmates floating around in Norway now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregT Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Adamge... Thanks for the up-date -- just ordered two from CZ-USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianmarko Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 i have 2 barrels made for my 2 czechmates (i got another one from a colleague, barely used) still doing the paperwork to collect them. took a very long time... will post pictures once i get them i guess barrels will have to be fitted to the guns i will then have 9 barrels, one of which broken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my00wrx1 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 23/04/2017 at 5:08 PM, gianmarko said: i have 2 barrels made for my 2 czechmates (i got another one from a colleague, barely used) still doing the paperwork to collect them. took a very long time... will post pictures once i get them i guess barrels will have to be fitted to the guns i will then have 9 barrels, one of which broken... Did you get the broken one replaced under warranty? Is anyone making lightweight aftermarket comps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianmarko Posted May 6, 2017 Author Share Posted May 6, 2017 On 4/24/2017 at 0:04 PM, my00wrx1 said: Did you get the broken one replaced under warranty? Is anyone making lightweight aftermarket comps? after long discussions the swiss importer gave me another barrel but it was same as the old and coming from another gun. so i assume it was fitted to another gun and not sure it could be fitted to mine. at any rate i had 2 more barrels so no use for a new, old style barrel. then i managed, through a contact in CZ and a lot of emailing back and forth, to get two new style barrels manufactured for my guns and with matching serials still havent my new barrels in my hands. couple years ago a new rule came up that any gun or part of gun imported in Switzerland would have to be stamped and serialized. that will cost me extra 2 hundred bucks for 2 barrels. one slice at a time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregT Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Yup, another barrel, another fractured barrel lug. I'm beginning to think I'm jinxed. Slide looks bent but it's just the macro lens doing it's thing. Thought I'd use a CZ shock buff in the gun but to know avail. Talked with CZ USA and they wanted me to send the whole gun back --- again, I didn't want to do that. I've ordered, received and fit-up a new barrel for the pistol. At my cost, of course. They told me there was no problem with the design, I don't believe that for a second. I can't, however, be too hard on the CZ brand, they deliver product that I'm very happy to have in my inventory. The new barrel does have an increased radius at the front of the barrel lug, which I was happy to see. I'm currently working with a different powder thinking that the Auto Comp my be delivering too much velocity and stress on the barrel lug. Later, GregT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my00wrx1 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 It is not covered under warranty? Hmm, apparently there is no problem with the original design but they have changed the design of the barrel lug? Did you need to modify the guide ride to fit to the new style barrel lug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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