What makes a 2011 the "go to" 3 gun pistol ?

[fireman489]

One piece of advise I always give new shooters is to look at what the big league match winners are using. Most of them can use any gun they want, but they shoot 2011's, so there must be a reason for it. Once you start shooting a well made 2011 with a good trigger, you will have a hard time going back to a striker fired pistol.

Im a big believer in this ---^^^^^.... I think Jesse's post here -------VVV is worth its weight in gold.... Im not worried about the times I align my sights perfectly w a perfect trigger press..... Im worried about all the other times when I DONT !

I look at it this way. If you align your sights perfectly every time while pulling the trigger perfectly every time you will hit every target every time no matter the gun. If you have a more accurate gun and a lighter shorter trigger you will hit more targets when you don't align the sights perfectly and/or don't pull the trigger perfectly.

A Glock won't make you miss more than a 2011 if you do your part. But a 2011 might help you miss less than with a Glock if you don't do you're part.

[Langenator]

I know that CZs don't have near the user base of the 2011...but can anyone who has used both compare a 2011 to, say, a CZ SP-01 tuned/tricked out to a similar cost level?

(I'll admit to having a soft spot for CZs. Of all my pistols, my favorite is my CZ-97B, aka "The Beast," which I plan on using in He-Man eventually. When I can afford .308)

Edited February 5, 2014 by Langenator

[Jesse Tischauser]

I know that CZs don't have near the user base of the 2011...but can anyone who has used both compare a 2011 to, say, a CZ SP-01 tuned/tricked out to a similar cost level?

(I'll admit to having a soft spot for CZs. Of all my pistols, my favorite is my CZ-97B, aka "The Beast," which I plan on using in He-Man eventually. When I can afford .308)

I bought a custom job CZ SP01 shadow from Matt Mink at Automatic Accuracy last spring. I bought it to shoot production nationals. I ended up running it in the MVSA Choate Multi gun and then it fit perfectly into the SCSA Leo/MIL division. I won both matches with it luckily. The gun is actually very well suited for 3 gun. The DA trigger pull isn't really an issue in 3 gun since we either start cocked and locked or Emory chamber and rack the gun hot before we start shooting. The SA trigger in my Shadow is lighter and shorter than my 2011's. I bought a couple of extended base pads from CZ Custom shop so it holds 22 or 23+1. Accuracy is on par with my 2011's at my group shooting level of performance. Mags are $25-35. Base pads are a little more than say a Dawson or TTI cause they are less common. Price was about $1500-1600 if memory serves me right. So I'd say it's a great option for 3 gun. It cost about the same for a custom gun as it does for a stock used STI. Mags are half the price and less finicky. The weight is similar and the bore axis us low so recoil is similar and it shoots really flat like a 2011. Only downside is parts aren't as common, gunsmiths aren't plentiful and the slide isn't as say to grasp for cocking the gun. I'm actually sending mine back to Mink to have a larger thumb safety installed for 3 gun. In the matches that I ran it I had trouble engaging and disengaging the flat safety. I originally had a low profile flat safety lever put on because in USPSA production you always start devices in DA muse with the safety never being activated.

[Langenator]

I may have to put that on my Wish List then...maybe a present for myself if I make the LTC promotion list in June.

[sheepdog566]

I would love to buy a 2011. It is top of my want list. The only thing keeping me from purchasing one is I carry a Glock for a living being LE. When I owned a 1911 I found myself doing odd things with the safety on/off. For this reason I only own Glocks. I completely agree with Jesse, if your fundamentals are perfect every time it doesn't matter if you have a 2011 or Glock.

[alma]

I would love to buy a 2011. It is top of my want list. The only thing keeping me from purchasing one is I carry a Glock for a living being LE. When I owned a 1911 I found myself doing odd things with the safety on/off. For this reason I only own Glocks. I completely agree with Jesse, if your fundamentals are perfect every time it doesn't matter if you have a 2011 or Glock.

I have a ton of respect for LEs who come out to compete, especially when you are running a similar platform to what you use for duty. It is extremely admirable and makes me feel a little bit safer. One of my old shooting buddies ran his SRT 1911 with full power ammo at all of the matches and he put a premium on accuracy. He didn't always win but if crap hit the fan I known who I would want to see pull up. Kudos!

[kurtm]

If you are looking for the simple truth as to why a S...fill in the blank... I is the "go to gun" for almost any pistol/gun game. look no farther than what Mr. T posted! This is probably the best reader's digest version ever typed! Hat,s off to ya Jesse!

Oh sure we all can say look a Dave Sevigny...or Angus Hobdel or any other of a DAMN FEW that can drive something different, but I would point out that for every one of them there are 3-4X the amount just as amazing with an STI/SVI.

Why is it better? Well we have had since 1911 or so to really perfect the system as to customizing, gunsmithing and accurizing, nothing else even comes close on the evolutionary scale.

[kodiak907]

Just putting my 2 cents in but I started out just using a glock 22. Was that the best ... NO but it's what I had and I made it work. I have a kimber 1911 but 10 rounds just wasn't going to cut it in the tac-optic world so I saved a little money and got a Glock 34, tricked it out and was still under 800 bucks, and started to win my local matches I found out that Tupperware guns ran longer in the colder month. And in Alaska we run 3 gun matches twice a month EVERY MONTH. So in that aspect polymer guns ran great. Now after 2-3 years playing the game , I'm going all in with my first STI build. I told my self it was time for an upgrade and the 2011 is the only way to go when it comes to that. Some people run SIGS or CZs but 99% are STIs it just depends on how much you want to drop on your pistol.

[MetropolisLake]

Last night was the first time I got to fiddle with a 2011 for a while as I just picked up an STI Eagle. There were several noticable differences than the polymer guns I'm used to like my FNX-40 and Glock 35. It had quite a bit more heft, everything was tight with no slop, the slide felt like it was on ball bearings, mags were easier to seat, the stock trigger had a very crisp break that required very little movement, the mag release button was easier to push... it was tons nicer even being totally stock.

[mnc516]

I've been really close to buying a custom 2011 and ditching my XDM, but I finally decided it was simply lust!! I have a good friend and mentor at my club that made GM with his Glock and then switched to a 2011. He was sponsored by SVI for several years. My thoughts, and he confirmed, it's not entirely the gun, it's the guy using it!

My current goal is to make at least A class (B now) maybe Master with my XDM and use the money I would have spent on the 2011 for ammo. THEN reward myself with a custom gun! I personally am a LONG way from out performing my equipment....if I get SO good that my gun is holding me back, different story.

[fireman489]

I've been really close to buying a custom 2011 and ditching my XDM, but I finally decided it was simply lust!! I have a good friend and mentor at my club that made GM with his Glock and then switched to a 2011. He was sponsored by SVI for several years. My thoughts, and he confirmed, it's not entirely the gun, it's the guy using it!

My current goal is to make at least A class (B now) maybe Master with my XDM and use the money I would have spent on the 2011 for ammo. THEN reward myself with a custom gun! I personally am a LONG way from out performing my equipment....if I get SO good that my gun is holding me back, different story.

That's true BUT ....when the guy using it dosnt always do his part, a 2011 can "make up" for SOME of that .... (refer to JT's post)

Im gonna see what all the hype is about this Sat..... local 3 gun match & I have several friends w STI Eagle, Edge, & Akai Customs Im gonna play with.... guess we'll see.....

[EaZeNuTZ33]

I've been really close to buying a custom 2011 and ditching my XDM, but I finally decided it was simply lust!! I have a good friend and mentor at my club that made GM with his Glock and then switched to a 2011. He was sponsored by SVI for several years. My thoughts, and he confirmed, it's not entirely the gun, it's the guy using it!

My current goal is to make at least A class (B now) maybe Master with my XDM and use the money I would have spent on the 2011 for ammo. THEN reward myself with a custom gun! I personally am a LONG way from out performing my equipment....if I get SO good that my gun is holding me back, different story.

I said the exact same thing over and over and have been running a Glock for the two years I've been in 3-gun, see my profile pic for the Zev custom Glock I'm running now. To get better at the pistol portion of my game, my weakest link right now, I've been shooting a lot of USPSA in the 3-gun offseason. Since December, I've taken 1st place in limited (scoring as minor) and 3rd overall behind two open shooters that are M and GM at both bigger club matches. At local practice matches I'm usually 1st to 3rd behind one M level open shooter and occasionally a guy in limited with a 2011. When I watch the limited shooter that beats me, the one BIG thing that stands out is how his .40 Edge with MAJOR PF loads and very similar grip to mine barely twitches compared to the amount my custom Glock with MINOR PF handloads. I finally got a chance to get my mitts on a CZ-75 (9mm) and a 2011 (.40) to compare the feel, the recoil characteristics, the trigger....

I do not think that having a 2011 will make someone beat a better shooter who has a Glock/xD/M&P.....but I do now believe that if you have two guys who are at the same skill level, practice level, and stage planning level....and you give one a 2011 and a little practice, he will come out ahead the majority of the time then.

I've placed my order with Aaron Hayes for a custom 2011, got the holster and mag holders in from Jeremy at TheShootersSource (a huge help BTW), and will have extra TTI tuned mags inbound before long. I felt confident enough that there was a sizable enough advantage in making the change that I will easily have $4000+ wrapped up in everything before I ever pull the trigger on my own 2011. Until it arrives, I'm going to still be rocking the Zev Glock as best I can......but once it does, I'm afraid my expensive Zev custom Glock may collect dust in the safe!

[mnc516]

I've been really close to buying a custom 2011 and ditching my XDM, but I finally decided it was simply lust!! I have a good friend and mentor at my club that made GM with his Glock and then switched to a 2011. He was sponsored by SVI for several years. My thoughts, and he confirmed, it's not entirely the gun, it's the guy using it!

My current goal is to make at least A class (B now) maybe Master with my XDM and use the money I would have spent on the 2011 for ammo. THEN reward myself with a custom gun! I personally am a LONG way from out performing my equipment....if I get SO good that my gun is holding me back, different story.

I said the exact same thing over and over and have been running a Glock for the two years I've been in 3-gun, see my profile pic for the Zev custom Glock I'm running now. To get better at the pistol portion of my game, my weakest link right now, I've been shooting a lot of USPSA in the 3-gun offseason. Since December, I've taken 1st place in limited (scoring as minor) and 3rd overall behind two open shooters that are M and GM at both bigger club matches. At local practice matches I'm usually 1st to 3rd behind one M level open shooter and occasionally a guy in limited with a 2011. When I watch the limited shooter that beats me, the one BIG thing that stands out is how his .40 Edge with MAJOR PF loads and very similar grip to mine barely twitches compared to the amount my custom Glock with MINOR PF handloads. I finally got a chance to get my mitts on a CZ-75 (9mm) and a 2011 (.40) to compare the feel, the recoil characteristics, the trigger....

I do not think that having a 2011 will make someone beat a better shooter who has a Glock/xD/M&P.....but I do now believe that if you have two guys who are at the same skill level, practice level, and stage planning level....and you give one a 2011 and a little practice, he will come out ahead the majority of the time then.

I've placed my order with Aaron Hayes for a custom 2011, got the holster and mag holders in from Jeremy at TheShootersSource (a huge help BTW), and will have extra TTI tuned mags inbound before long. I felt confident enough that there was a sizable enough advantage in making the change that I will easily have $4000+ wrapped up in everything before I ever pull the trigger on my own 2011. Until it arrives, I'm going to still be rocking the Zev Glock as best I can......but once it does, I'm afraid my expensive Zev custom Glock may collect dust in the safe!

I absolutely agree with what you're saying!! But, in my case, being a B class shooter, I'm still working out the MAJOR time saving processes involved in target transition, etc.. For me, at least now, the minor time savings in splits don't even begin to compare with the major time loss in transitions!! My XDM is not stock, I've added a titanium guide rod which "seems" to help me in recoil management. But, I've been in construction my entire life and have a pretty good handle on recoil.

As I said, until I can outperform my gun, it's not the problem. My plans are to work on stage dissection, speed in movement and cutting out the areas that I loose seconds, not fractions of seconds. When I master that, 2011 here I come!!!!

[MetropolisLake]

Bad part about 2011's... they make your other guns feel like toys. I'm being serious. Dry fired a whole bunch last night with the STI, immediately picked up my FNX, and was like, what a cheap piece of crap!

[pjb45]

The best 3G pistol to date: Don Golembieski, Kodiak Precision, $4,800 Infinity.

[Jesse Tischauser]

The best 3G pistol to date: Don Golembieski, Kodiak Precision, $4,800 Infinity.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[andrew4900]

2 cents worth…I had 4 friends and I "round robin" a Shadow T and an STI Aperio (my wife's). Hands down "easier to shoot well" was the Shadow. Thats only a few folk and very limited shooting but, I thought the very close performance of the two worth throwing out. Please note that none of these people are competition shooters…but two were LE instructors.

[Zukeep]

The reason I switched from a Glock to a 2011 was a lighter shorter trigger is more foregoing and faster. The extra weight means less recoil. Mags usually hold 1-2 extra rounds. They are inherently more accurate than any of the polymer guns.

Dont you shoot a CZ as well? How do you like them for 3 gun? and abandoning them with safety or mag dump for that type of gun?

I bought a CZ SP01 Shadow late last year from Matt Mink at Automatic Accuracy because I planned to shoot Production Nationals at nearby USSA in Tulsa. I bought a couple extended base pads and ran it in a state match in Arkansas to get some trigger time before Production Nats. Then it conveniently fit into the LEO/MIL division for the newly formed USCA 2 Gun Nationals. I've probably shot less than 1500 rounds thru mine but I managed to win both matches with it.

For 3 gun starting cocked and locked with the trigger in SA, the trigger is actually shorter and lighter than my 2011's. The accuracy seems just as good for the kinda groups I shoot. (I don't shoot groups often enough.). The gun has run like a champ. It's a pretty solid 3 gun machine. If I was CZ or Auto Accuracy I'd be pushing it as such. The tuned gun I have runs about $1500-1800. So it's a few & cheaper than a bone stock 2011. Mags are way cheaper.

Negatives are...

Parts aren't even close to being as readily

available.

Short slide isn't as easy to grip/rack as a 2011.

As far as dumping guns with safeties it pretty much isn't something I think about. Put safety on and don't ditch it in a manner that would deactivate the safety. Pretty commonsensical! Or dump mag and rack. I do both depending on the dump container. You can always run a sinkage side safety and just dump with the safety lever facing up to. Running a polymer gun cause it's easier to ditch is ridiculous IMHO. Nobody ever won a match cause they dump guns faster than everyone else. You just got ditch em smart and deliberate rather than throw them.

Hope that helps if not send me a PM.

Further to Jesse's point, if you get too comfortable throwing your Glock in a bucket you will eventually bounce one and obliterate the 180.

Can't reply on 2011s or Polymer guns. I shoot a box stock Sig 226 that bought a couple of years ago for $340. It's cheap, eats any ammo, CHEAP 20 round mags, and I have learned how to hit cardboard with it. It has a de-cocker so it is about the same as dumping a safety pistol without worrying about the safety clicking off.

[Zukeep]

Just food for thought... at last week's SHOT show shoot-off, Jesse here posted a video of Bryan Ray having a killer pistol run against Ravin Perry, had multiple poppers falling at the same time like dominoes, it was a beautiful thing. He's only running a Glock 34 with nothing but a stipple job, sights, and a drop-in trigger, yet bumping heads with guys like Burkett with his Predator Tactical rig that can be configured to be over $5,000. It's hard to be convinced that a 2011 is necessary when you see that happen.I was honestly about to buy one but, and although I still suck, I improved quite a bit pretty quickly with my G35. Finally decided that once I wring all I can out of it I'll upgrade, but until then, it's obvious that my Glock can shoot better than I can, so what's the point.[/quote

Yeah, but he's Bryan Ray. He's has 3 gun super powers!!

[Jukez]

Really enjoying my accu-shadow for 3 gun.. just wish there were extended base pads to be bought... Although I am tempted to shoot my M&P because its limited minor ready to go! LOL probably the reason I am selling the M&P so I dont bounce around

WHO WANTS AN M&P LOL

[Kyle7735]

Really enjoying my accu-shadow for 3 gun.. just wish there were extended base pads to be bought... Although I am tempted to shoot my M&P because its limited minor ready to go! LOL probably the reason I am selling the M&P so I dont bounce around

WHO WANTS AN M&P LOL

http://czcustom.com/cz75-extended_base_pad_long.aspx

With this and proper spring and follower combo you should be able to get 23ish in 9mm.

[checkyoursix]

The #1 uspsa shooter in Ga shoots a glock 34. He also excels in 3gun. I myself prefer the glock 34 with an upgraded trigger and some Dave sights and good stippling

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[38SuperDub]

I thought Dave shoots an FNH?

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[Jukez]

The #1 uspsa shooter in Ga shoots a glock 34. He also excels in 3gun. I myself prefer the glock 34 with an upgraded trigger and some Dave sights and good stippling

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I thought Dave shoots an FNH?

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LOL yeah he does, we do have a lot of great shooters in GA that shoot plastic fantastics though.. Noveske Team is out here and with Atlanta 3 Gun up and going lots of great shooters to be found still as well.