spencerhut Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Working up a new minor load for the wife's CZ-75SA since I wanted to try and make her one of the "feels like cheating they are so soft loads" and for the second time in the last couple of months N320 got stomped by Ramshot Competition. The other load was a major load for my.40S&W Tac Sport where Competition also beat N320. The two loads that made ~135PF were CCI Primer, Win Case, 147g MGB, 1.140 OAL with 3.8g N320 or 3.4g Competition. Multiple back to back blind tests with my wife confirmed the Competition shot noticeably softer than N320. Both loads are way softer than the old 124g load she has been using for years. Just thought I'd pass it along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rub'n Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Ramshot, huh Might give it a whirl in the near future........thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 ramshots a faster burning powder, a look at a burn rate chart could have given you the same data without firing a shot. As long as the powder will give you the minimum velocity you want, groups decent and is clean enough for the intended purpose faster will always generate less recoil than slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 ramshots a faster burning powder, a look at a burn rate chart could have given you the same data without firing a shot. As long as the powder will give you the minimum velocity you want, groups decent and is clean enough for the intended purpose faster will always generate less recoil than slower. Joe I would not make any bets based on a burn rate chart, each mfg has its own method to determining burn rate. You can tell if it is in the right "section" to try, but beyond that NO IT DOES NOT TELL YOU HOW IT WILL SHOOT. By the way Competition comes after N320 which if you believe the chart its slower, not faster. http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html Your theory is sound but the burn rate chart is not 100% accurate, well maybe 85%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Ramshot Competition is also cheaper and you use less. Quite clean also. I use in 9 minor and 40 major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Working up a new minor load for the wife's CZ-75SA since I wanted to try and make her one of the "feels like cheating they are so soft loads" and for the second time in the last couple of months N320 got stomped by Ramshot Competition. The other load was a major load for my.40S&W Tac Sport where Competition also beat N320. The two loads that made ~135PF were CCI Primer, Win Case, 147g MGB, 1.140 OAL with 3.8g N320 or 3.4g Competition. Multiple back to back blind tests with my wife confirmed the Competition shot noticeably softer than N320. Both loads are way softer than the old 124g load she has been using for years. Just thought I'd pass it along. Would you mind passing along the .40 Major load? I have heard a few other good things about Ramshot powders and now I'm interested in getting some Comp and True Blue to try out. Thanks for any info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 ramshots a faster burning powder, a look at a burn rate chart could have given you the same data without firing a shot. As long as the powder will give you the minimum velocity you want, groups decent and is clean enough for the intended purpose faster will always generate less recoil than slower. Joe I would not make any bets based on a burn rate chart, each mfg has its own method to determining burn rate. You can tell if it is in the right "section" to try, but beyond that NO IT DOES NOT TELL YOU HOW IT WILL SHOOT. By the way Competition comes after N320 which if you believe the chart its slower, not faster. http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html Your theory is sound but the burn rate chart is not 100% accurate, well maybe 85%. Actually, both - Hodgdon and VV charts show Ramshot Comp. being faster burning powder than N320. http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html http://www.lapua.com/upload/downloads/brochures/2011/vihtavuorireloadingguideed9eng.pdf - page 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) Then why stop with Ramshot Competition? Go ahead and try Alliant E3 and VV N310. They're both faster than Ramshot so they gotta be "softer." Heck, why not just go to Norma R1 and forget the others? Edited May 30, 2011 by The_Vigilante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Then - just use black powder or some explosives - they will be faster yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 How is the accuracy with competition? When I tried VV310, and Clays, for 9mm minor, my 25 yard groups doubled, as compared to Titegroup, or VV320. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 like I said, there are other factors involved besides recoil, A light recoiling round may have horrible accuracy or other short comings, Acording to the newest Hodgdon burnrate chart I have it shows Ramshot Comp as faster than 320, the fact the OP used lighter charges backs this up in this aplication. Burn rate can flip flop based on pressures and aplications which is why all charts arnt the same, 310 E3 may work well from a recoil perspective if it can make power factor at an acceptable pressure level and doenst have other issues. But the OP found a faster powder that apparently works well and as a result recoils less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Personally, I use and like Clays for 9mm Luger round with 124gr or heavier bullet in my CZs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 ramshots a faster burning powder, a look at a burn rate chart could have given you the same data without firing a shot. As long as the powder will give you the minimum velocity you want, groups decent and is clean enough for the intended purpose faster will always generate less recoil than slower. Joe I would not make any bets based on a burn rate chart, each mfg has its own method to determining burn rate. You can tell if it is in the right "section" to try, but beyond that NO IT DOES NOT TELL YOU HOW IT WILL SHOOT. By the way Competition comes after N320 which if you believe the chart its slower, not faster. http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html Your theory is sound but the burn rate chart is not 100% accurate, well maybe 85%. Actually, both - Hodgdon and VV charts show Ramshot Comp. being faster burning powder than N320. http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html http://www.lapua.com...guideed9eng.pdf - page 2. There you go those burn rate charts aren't worth burning the paper they are on, or is it like that old show Truth or Consequences, will the real burn rate chart step forward. Your theory is sound but we just don't have reliable burn rate information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankfan79 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 So a heavier bullet recoiled less with BOTH powders? Well, yeah..its going to. If both 147 loads (VV&Ramshot) both recoiled less, than is just says you didn't feel as much recoil as the 124's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Interesting but wondering what shape the grains are? And how do they feed from measure? Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhut Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Interesting but wondering what shape the grains are? And how do they feed from measure? Thanks for the info! Small flakes, feeds just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhut Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Working up a new minor load for the wife's CZ-75SA since I wanted to try and make her one of the "feels like cheating they are so soft loads" and for the second time in the last couple of months N320 got stomped by Ramshot Competition. The other load was a major load for my.40S&W Tac Sport where Competition also beat N320. The two loads that made ~135PF were CCI Primer, Win Case, 147g MGB, 1.140 OAL with 3.8g N320 or 3.4g Competition. Multiple back to back blind tests with my wife confirmed the Competition shot noticeably softer than N320. Both loads are way softer than the old 124g load she has been using for years. Just thought I'd pass it along. Would you mind passing along the .40 Major load? I have heard a few other good things about Ramshot powders and now I'm interested in getting some Comp and True Blue to try out. Thanks for any info... 4.6g Competition, 180g MGB JHP, 1.135OAL CCI or Wolf Primer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Then why stop with Ramshot Competition? Go ahead and try Alliant E3 and VV N310. They're both faster than Ramshot so they gotta be "softer." Heck, why not just go to Norma R1 and forget the others? N310 is wonderful in 9 minor, and I have a pound of E3 I've been meaning to try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonS Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 3.8 gr of n320 to make 130 Pf with 147 gr mg? Sounds hot to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) 3.8 gr of n320 to make 130 Pf with 147 gr mg? Sounds hot to me. Agreed, in my M&P pro I am running 147 gr Bayou bullets and 3.6 gr of N320 and am at ~140 power factor. Edit to add: I know a guy that uses N310 in his 9mm and it sounds like a pop gun but it makes power factor so *shrug* I just don't like running that close to the pressure spike edge personally. Edited June 1, 2011 by Classic_jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I use 3.3/3.4g of VV N320 and get 135 Power Factor in my M&P Pro 9mm. Sounds like your Chrony is way off or your powder measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhut Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 I use 3.3/3.4g of VV N320 and get 135 Power Factor in my M&P Pro 9mm. Sounds like your Chrony is way off or your powder measure. Chrony might be off. Scale, hell that could be off too :-). The chrony is an older PACT and has seen better days. I'm at ICORE this week and if my ammo chron's much different than it does at home I'll buy a new chrony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I use 3.3/3.4g of VV N320 and get 135 Power Factor in my M&P Pro 9mm. Sounds like your Chrony is way off or your powder measure. Chrony might be off. Scale, hell that could be off too :-). The chrony is an older PACT and has seen better days. I'm at ICORE this week and if my ammo chron's much different than it does at home I'll buy a new chrony. Let us know how it goes, I'm curious to see what this is...I have an older PACT (about 15 years old) and it seems to run great and accurate. Good luck this week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I use 3.3/3.4g of VV N320 and get 135 Power Factor in my M&P Pro 9mm. Sounds like your Chrony is way off or your powder measure. About the same here. MG 147 CMJ. 3.8 sounds like a lot. My go to load is 2.9 with a 160gr moly bullet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhut Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 I use 3.3/3.4g of VV N320 and get 135 Power Factor in my M&P Pro 9mm. Sounds like your Chrony is way off or your powder measure. Chrony might be off. Scale, hell that could be off too :-). The chrony is an older PACT and has seen better days. I'm at ICORE this week and if my ammo chron's much different than it does at home I'll buy a new chrony. Let us know how it goes, I'm curious to see what this is...I have an older PACT (about 15 years old) and it seems to run great and accurate. Good luck this week... My .45ACP loads were 158 to 160 at home on my PACT chrony, 169.9 over the match chrony. So my PACT might be reading low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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