1980 Bianchi Cup

[pax]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forums here & hope I'm not stepping on any toes by speaking right up with a question, but this appears to be the most-likely place on the web to hunt down the answer to a minor, but intriguing, mystery.

This afternoon, I was reading The Tactical Edge, a law enforcement book from two decades ago. In it, I came across the following paragraph:

... A top marksman recently ran the gauntlet on one such course, featuring remote-controlled turning targets. He consistently delivered fast, center-mass shots, but his performance was tactically illiterate.... Yet he was scored highly on the basis of time and accuracy. On the same course, another shooter, tactically more astute, just raised his pistol with one hand and shot over the wall at the first target, without exposing his head or torso. Instead of running down the trail, he zig-zagged along a brushy creek bed that paralleled the course. He scoped out targets from cover, patiently waited out their turning and moved on only when each "adversary" had been eliminated. The instructor was furious when this shooter finished because he'd "acted silly" and "done it wrong" by going outside the course boundary!

This little snippet jolted something in my memory, and I had to search awhile before I found the reference I vaguely remembered. It's from Paul Kirchner's book, Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad.

In an article for Combat Handguns, Rick Miller described what happened at the 1980 Bianchi Cup match when shooters were run through a defensive shooting situation. The first to go through was a top-ranked practical shooter. He ran through the course in 30 seconds, hitting all targets, but in the process he reloaded in the open, took on three targets without cover, and shot his weapon dry. When Cirillo took his turn, he dealt with the first target, which was two yards away, by firing at it over a wall without exposing his head. Then, instead of following the path into the next scenario, he took to a nearby gully, using it for cover while he took on each target one at a time. When the course organizer protested that he was going the wrong way, Cirillo responded that this was a gunfight, and he shouldn't be expected to walk right out in front of his enemies. It took him several minutes to finish the course. Wrote Miller, "Many of the spectators thought he was just showing off or acting silly..."

So the question I have for you old-time competitors: did this incident really happen as described? I'm having a hard time picturing a match set up with a gully that would be tempting for a competitor to use -- even an independent soul like Jim Cirillo! -- and am just intrigued by the whole thing.

Can someone here help me visualize how that could happen?

pax,

Kathy

[benos]

I was not at that Bianchi Cup, but from '81 on, when I was there, they never shot any course of fire that would be even remotely close to what was described. If that did do something like that, it would have had to have been more of a "fun match." Because I know they shot the dame COF in '80 as they did in '81.

be

[pax]

Thanks, Brian.

pax

[Guy Neill]

I don't know about that specifically, but there were some training-tactical shoots conducted by John Farnam behind the Practical range. The creek runs along there.

John had his radio controlled turning targets that wold turn back (disappear) when a COM hit was achieved. Until then they stood there.

While I didn't witness the related occurrence, I can envision it happening.

Guy

[Early IPSC'er]

... A top marksman recently ran the gauntlet on one such course, featuring remote-controlled turning targets. He consistently delivered fast, center-mass shots, but his performance was tactically illiterate.... Yet he was scored highly on the basis of time and accuracy. On the same course, another shooter, tactically more astute, just raised his pistol with one hand and shot over the wall at the first target, without exposing his head or torso. Instead of running down the trail, he zig-zagged along a brushy creek bed that paralleled the course. He scoped out targets from cover, patiently waited out their turning and moved on only when each "adversary" had been eliminated. The instructor was furious when this shooter finished because he'd "acted silly" and "done it wrong" by going outside the course boundary!

This little snippet jolted something in my memory, and I had to search awhile before I found the reference I vaguely remembered. It's from Paul Kirchner's book, Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad.

In an article for Combat Handguns, Rick Miller described what happened at the 1980 Bianchi Cup match when shooters were run through a defensive shooting situation. The first to go through was a top-ranked practical shooter. He ran through the course in 30 seconds, hitting all targets, but in the process he reloaded in the open, took on three targets without cover, and shot his weapon dry. When Cirillo took his turn, he dealt with the first target, which was two yards away, by firing at it over a wall without exposing his head. Then, instead of following the path into the next scenario, he took to a nearby gully, using it for cover while he took on each target one at a time. When the course organizer protested that he was going the wrong way, Cirillo responded that this was a gunfight, and he shouldn't be expected to walk right out in front of his enemies. It took him several minutes to finish the course. Wrote Miller, "Many of the spectators thought he was just showing off or acting silly..."

So the question I have for you old-time competitors: did this incident really happen as described? I'm having a hard time picturing a match set up with a gully that would be tempting for a competitor to use -- even an independent soul like Jim Cirillo! -- and am just intrigued by the whole thing.

Can someone here help me visualize how that could happen?

pax,

Kathy

Kathy,

I couldn't find the reference in either Cirillo's book or Kirchner's book about Jim. However, I looked thru my pics from the 1980 Bianchi Cup and had forgotten completely about Farnam's course that he set up behind the Practical range. This is from that shoot, unfortunately I don't have a pic of Jim running the course:

I don't doubt that it happened--whether it was at the 80 BC or not, I don't know. I do know that Ray wouldn't have gotten upset with Jim if Ray was running the course--he valued thinking outside the box.

(Parenthetical story about Ray: He liked to tell about his first trip to Gunsite when Jeff had just opened it and Ray hadn't started the Chapman Academy yet. Jeff was super proud of his new "fun house" and wanted to run Ray thru it. After a long explanation about the nature of "clearing" the building and identifying the threat targets, he started Ray on the course. Chapman opened the front door and yelled, "all you good guys get down on the floor" and then he ran thru the house and shot every target that was there (good or bad). Ray always got a laugh out of telling about that experience with Jeff)

A few month after the 1980 Bianchi Cup, Ray hosted one of the early Soldier of Fortune shoots (2nd or 3rd IIRC). Here's a picture of Ken Hackathorn observing as Jim Cirillo shot a semi auto:

The next sequence is a pic of Cirillo observing as Hackathorn shoots a revolver.

Initially I thought that maybe the example that you described happened at this shoot instead of the Bianchi--but looking thru the film strips, the Farnham course with the turning targets and going up the creek bed was at the Bianchi Cup.

BTW, this was a bit of a reprieve for John---Jeff had had Farnam conduct one of the stages at the 1979 IPSC Nationals in Park City, Utah using his "dual-a-tron" target sets. They were a disaster. One particular target instead of turning simply spun like a top. At the Section Coordinators meeting there was an almost universal demand to eliminate that stage from the overall match but Jeff wouldn't hear of it. Some shooters got totally screwed on that deal and Farnam was in the dog house big time. Having him at the Bianchi Cup was an effort to get him back in the good graces of competitive practical shooters at the time--I always thought that that was a nice gesture on Ray's part.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Early IPSC'er

[Early IPSC'er]

Here are a couple more pics from the Farnam exhibition (it wasn't a "match")

You can see the creek bed on the right

BTW, that's Farnam in the boonie hat with the remote control. It looks like the shooter is shooting back up range---I don't remember the specifics of the set up---I'm pretty sure that that shooter is Keith McClanahan, an old buddy of mine that was on the San Diego Sheriff's Dept---he wouldn't have done anything unsafe, so I'm not sure what's going on in the photo.

Heres the role reversal of Hackathorn and Cirillo with a revolver (a Smith Mod. 29)

Those were good times!!

[benos]

Those were good times!!

Yes! Thanks for posting, and with the pics.

be

[Early IPSC'er]

Kathy,

I couldn't find the reference in either Cirillo's book or Kirchner's book about Jim.

Apolgies to Kathy, I found the reference to the event on pages 157-158 of Kirchner's book--sorry.

[Flexmoney]

Early IPSC'er,

Please, feel completely free to add any such content, story,pictures, etc to this forum.

It is very interesting to hear the heritage.

Feel free to start a new thread for any old topic that you wish.

[Ross Carter]

Great photos, thanks. Anyone notice which auto Cirillo is shooting while Hackathorn watches?

[eerw]

Great photos, thanks. Anyone notice which auto Cirillo is shooting while Hackathorn watches?

Looks like a Smith. hooked trigger guard, etc.

[Early IPSC'er]

Great photos, thanks. Anyone notice which auto Cirillo is shooting while Hackathorn watches?

If you look closely, I think that it has the groove in the side of the slide that Charlie Kelsey was experimenting with with his full sized (non-cut down) 39's. Since Devel was in Ohio, I think that he and Ken became friends; at least I remember Charlie being at some of the early matches and I think that Fowler was using one of his Gammon comp guns at the 81 Bianchi Cup.

This is Mickey at the 81 BC -- pretty sure this is the Gammon that had the funcky roller bearing at the feed ramp:

[Early IPSC'er]

You know, now that I posted that pic of Fowler, I'm less inclined to state that that gun is the Devel Gammon---IIRC, the Gammon that he used had an electroless nickel looking finish--I suppose that this could have been the gun prior to plating---any of you old timers remember???

[benos]

Great photos, thanks. Anyone notice which auto Cirillo is shooting while Hackathorn watches?

I wondered about that when I saw it yesterday. Bren 10?

be

[Bill Nesbitt]

I remember when Farnam used to set up at Second Chance. He had a bunch of targets in the woods behind the practice range. For 5 bucks he would keep turning targets until you ran out of ammo. He loved it when you pulled a back up and kept shooting. He taught me a better way to use cover than hugging a stump while shooting with one hand. Also, here's a pic of the pin girls for those of you who never made it to Second Chance.

To the OP. I can imagine Cirillo doing something like that but John Farnam would have loved it.

The gun Cirillo is shooting looks like a Smith 59 or 39.

[Seth]

Thanks for sharing these pictures and stories! They're absolutely fascinating. How cool it must have been to be at the bleeding edge of all advancement.

[Chris Keen]

Thanks for sharing these pictures and stories! They're absolutely fascinating. How cool it must have been to be at the bleeding edge of all advancement.

.... and not even realize it!

+1 to what Seth said. Very cool stuff. Keep it coming!

[Ross Carter]

Thanks for sharing these pictures and stories! They're absolutely fascinating. How cool it must have been to be at the bleeding edge of all advancement.

.... and not even realize it!

+1 to what Seth said. Very cool stuff. Keep it coming!

So true, first time I shot the Bianchi mover if you just got all your hits on the paper you had bragging rights. You could see about every style and gun trying to win. Teams from all over the world it really was something to see.

I wasn't there for that one but the pistol Cirillo is shooting does look like one of Charlie Kelsey's creations. He was a real invotator that did a lot with SW autos.

I've talked to Mickey about the Gammon, back then it was so secret he couldn't show anyone how it worked, I can't remember whether that blue pistol is one or not.

[Early IPSC'er]

Although this is from the 1979 innaugural Bianchi Cup, it shows Cirillo "holding court" (probably telling a joke) with John Bianchi. I don't remember the guys name on the left but he was the H&K rep.

[Early IPSC'er]

Here are a couple of pics of the range in 1979--you can see how crude the conditions were---they were improved alittle for the 1980 match, but not by a huge margin---Ray was tight with a nickel.

This is the barricade stage, note the guy on the left:

This shows the Practical range. Note that the guy on the right in this pic is the guy on the left in the previous one, so you can see the relationship. You'll note the "stream" on the left of the range ran parallel to the Practical range. This is the stream bed (just behind the berm) where the Cirillo story took place.

Initially Kathy mentioned an article written by Rick Miller. Rick was one of, if not the first gun scribes of IPSC--He and Ken were both from Ohio and close friends. Here's a pic of Rick taking a pic of Tommy Campbell with his new, revolutionary "sternum" holster.

I always really liked Rick--he was a wonderful contributer to the sport.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Early IPSC'er

[Chills1994]

us competitors or the IPSC world in general like to take pride in the fact that we led the way with say red dot optics and that became the new standard with the Army or the Marines to be used on the modern day battlefield.

Well, seeing that picture up above, reminded me of this:

That's Prince Harry in Afghanistan, by the way.

[Early IPSC'er]

uuh---an accidental discharge could be deleterious to the, ah, well, ah, the Royal Jewels.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Early IPSC'er

[twodownzero]

uuh---an accidental discharge could be deleterious to the, ah, well, ah, the Royal Jewels.

Can't imagine a BHP would "accidentally" go off with the hammer down, unless my eyes are playing tricks on me and that really isn't a single action gun.

GREAT post, btw. I love the old pics.

[pax]

Early IPSC'er ~

Thank you, thank you, thank you! for the wonderful pictures of the early days, and the awesome information. Now I can picture how that happened. Just a minor mystery that made me go a little crosseyed trying to imagine how the match was set up to allow something like that. And yes, I'm sure Farnam would have loved it; the reference in the Tactical Edge read (to my jaundiced eye) as if it were a third-hand account, with embellishments to make a better story. Learning that Farnam was running that range pretty much sealed it.

Kathy

[Patrick Sweeney]

I shot John Farnam's duel-a-tron at the 1984 Second Chance match. He ran my main gun dry, and my backup. Which was why I drew my knife and charged the targets.

The pinsetters are setting up the old "flat 8" tables, 4'X8' steel-topped tables. We shot on those until Richard Davis designed the "monster" fifteen-foot tables with three, five-foot sections in them, each with a second level in them.

I've handled and photographed the Devel Gammon in question (it is in the collection of a huge 1911 buff) and the one I fondled looks not at all like the one in the photo. Even the contour of the comp is different.