gunracer38 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I started out with 38 Super. I then tried 9mm Major and went back to 38 Super.Three Open Guns EGW,Gans and Bedell. All work like a racer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfighter25 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 20-$150 plus shipping for 1000 super brass and assuming I get it back an average half of the brass at matches the cost per 1000 is in the range of $60 to $75 (Plus shipping). 9 MM: the cost per 1000 for me is $35 to $45 (Shipped). Robert L2723 To Bart's point thoughif you can get three times the reloads out of SC brass aren't you money ahead with the SC using your formula? I think the other thing to factor in is that there will be a significant amount of 9mm brass at a normal club match from the production shooters, and in my experience you can easily pick up more than you shot at the end of the match. While you may be able to pick up all the super you shot, you are probably are going to have too look really hard in multiple bays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rma_38sup Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 20-$150 plus shipping for 1000 super brass and assuming I get it back an average half of the brass at matches the cost per 1000 is in the range of $60 to $75 (Plus shipping). 9 MM: the cost per 1000 for me is $35 to $45 (Shipped). Robert L2723 To Bart's point thoughif you can get three times the reloads out of SC brass aren't you money ahead with the SC using your formula? It would be if you were certain of getting all your brass back. In may case I never do. Conversely, I could choose to pick up my 9MM brass which costs 1/3 to 1/4 th the price. I personally havent tried to get more than 2 loads from the same brass, but others here have commented on being able to get 3+ relods from the same cases. Once again it depends on your circumstances. Used 9 MM brass will most likely always be cheaper than new 38 super. However other things like the price of converting an existing gun that is already in 38 ___ , the price of a casepro, the value of your time re-sizing 9MM brass that may have passed thru a Glock, whether you have a large stash of brass of either caliber, will weight decision one way or the other, what powders you can get your hands on (my 38 super top end shoots much softer with VV 3N38 than my 9 MM top end in shooting Sihlouette). Good luck in your decision and remember wherever you go,, there you are. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Roll-sizing every 2-3 reloads keeps the primer pockets tight (a big problem in 9 major) the case diameter in spec for size. Well blow me down a rabbit chute and call me whiskers, I did not know that. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I do feel for the folks who pick up over pressure 9mm rounds and think they are fine. I would build the caliber around the gun you are building and not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 20-$150 plus shipping for 1000 super brass and assuming I get it back an average half of the brass at matches the cost per 1000 is in the range of $60 to $75 (Plus shipping). 9 MM: the cost per 1000 for me is $35 to $45 (Shipped). Robert L2723 To Bart's point thoughif you can get three times the reloads out of SC brass aren't you money ahead with the SC using your formula? I think the other thing to factor in is that there will be a significant amount of 9mm brass at a normal club match from the production shooters, and in my experience you can easily pick up more than you shot at the end of the match. While you may be able to pick up all the super you shot, you are probably are going to have too look really hard in multiple bays. I've seen more than a couple of Production shooters picking up their brass. The big thing about getting back any brass is to mark it distinctly. Anybody that's shot with me more than once or twice knows it's always easy to spot my brass. Just last night I had someone bring me a baggie with half a dozen cases in it saying "I know these are yours". R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Since I started in this USPSA game in Production with a Beretta 92FS (well, probably actually a 96FS), and I have since moved on to dabble in Limited with the same 92FS and 20 round mags at minor power factor, if it is 9mm Para/Luger, it gets picked up along with everything else after a match. If the primer stays in the primer hole and the round case gauges, it gets shot through my Beretta 92 FS. Knock on wood...I haven't had a problem yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Delta Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I personally have a 9 major, already loaded 9mm, have access to large amounts of brass. I was thinking that this debate is like the muscle car v.s. tuner car debate. Take a 2010 Dodge Challenger R/T 372 horsepower 400 torque, now take a 2010 Mitsubishi Evo X 291 horsepower 300 torque. Both are fast cars, one is a big V8 and fast in straight line the other is a turbocharged 4 cylinder with all wheel drive and can hold tons of grip in the corners. The V8 has been around forever and is reliable kind of like 38 super. The Mitsubishi is an technological marvel kind of like the making major in a 9mm thanks to certain powders. Take both to a track and I'm sure the race is going to be close and your sure going to have fun. Really about personal preference. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flack jacket Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I personally have a 9 major, already loaded 9mm, have access to large amounts of brass. I was thinking that this debate is like the muscle car v.s. tuner car debate. Take a 2010 Dodge Challenger R/T 372 horsepower 400 torque, now take a 2010 Mitsubishi Evo X 291 horsepower 300 torque. Both are fast cars, one is a big V8 and fast in straight line the other is a turbocharged 4 cylinder with all wheel drive and can hold tons of grip in the corners. The V8 has been around forever and is reliable kind of like 38 super. The Mitsubishi is an technological marvel kind of like the making major in a 9mm thanks to certain powders. Take both to a track and I'm sure the race is going to be close and your sure going to have fun. Really about personal preference. Just my thoughts. Two Delta, Great Analogy....I totally dig that, especially being in automotive aftermarket in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I personally have a 9 major, already loaded 9mm, have access to large amounts of brass. I was thinking that this debate is like the muscle car v.s. tuner car debate. Take a 2010 Dodge Challenger R/T 372 horsepower 400 torque, now take a 2010 Mitsubishi Evo X 291 horsepower 300 torque. Both are fast cars, one is a big V8 and fast in straight line the other is a turbocharged 4 cylinder with all wheel drive and can hold tons of grip in the corners. The V8 has been around forever and is reliable kind of like 38 super. The Mitsubishi is an technological marvel kind of like the making major in a 9mm thanks to certain powders. Take both to a track and I'm sure the race is going to be close and your sure going to have fun. Really about personal preference. Just my thoughts. Two Delta, Great Analogy....I totally dig that, especially being in automotive aftermarket in the past. I wouldn't go that far. Those two cars would never be close to one another on a racetrack....of any kind. Even going up to the SRT-8 won't put them close together on any track. Sorry, no offense Dodge fans, it's a size/weight thing Being a bit of a gearhead, I'd have to say that since both of the vehicles (guns, in this case) are otherwise the same, it's more like two identical cars, but one has a naturally aspirated high-performance engine and the second has a smaller engine with a turbocharger. In the end you can get the required power from either, but they go about it differently and one is a bit more on the edge. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I started off shooting 38 super, 38 super comp then 38 TJ, On a lark i decided 3 years ago to fit up a 9mm barrel to see if i could make it work. Took a little bit of time to figure it out and after i got it running decided to just pick one (9mm) and stick with it. I was very apprehensive moving to then an iffy platform but now that everythings tuned up it runs as good as any of my super guns ever did ( knock on wood ) Shooting a super round side by side with a 9mm i can tell a difference, but it's not huge. I have used silhouette, 3n38 , imr 7625 and am going to try some of the other Vit powders. My big sticks hold 29 rounds reloadable and i have one that will go 30. As previously mentioned brass cost ( practice brass anyway ) is the only plus i see with 9. If performance is your only criteria there is no reason not to shoot a super. Does it sound like i'm trying to talk myself out of 9 ? maybe , but now i'm too lazy to change again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmd Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I started with 38 super, switched to 9 Major for a couple years - had too many "issues" with 9 major so I went to 38sc. No plans to go back to 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THM7 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 9mm major has a bit of of a learning curve...but works just fine. Brass is available and cheap...go check out the Starline web site for .38SC/Super...not cheap or available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeAZ Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Sold all my 38 super guns 4/5 years ago.. 9mm major is just fine with me. Get the Lee "u" die and be a happy camper (no case pro needed). I did sell my 650 and went back to a 550 because of the powder slinging(yes, I tried all the fixs). As far as the primer pockets... I can feel them with the 550 (loose or "bad")and pitch them (cost of a primer). I don't keep track of the # of reloads, but would guess a easy 5+. I use small rifle primers/w a long firing pin. I was shooting a long OAL but am back to a regular 9mm OAL. I do use only SV mags. I'm happy with 3/4 powder and bullet selections. The MG 121's are just super accurate in any gun I've seen shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Z Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 +1 With what Bill Seevers said. I use a 115gr hp with 9.2gr 3n37 behind it. Lots of gas to make the comp work. Try to fit that in a 9x19. And when I pick the brass up I can use it again. Most 9mm major brass that I've seen look pretty ugly after going through that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I'm a brass whore to the nth degree, and I'm not afraid to admitt it out on the open forum. I'll pick up everything except .22LR and steel cased stuff. I used to pitch the .380's up on the back berm, but I will keep those too now, that I hear the Mac11 guys are really jones'ing for .380 brass. Anywhooo... my point is I can't tell what 9mm brass has been shot out of a production gun or an Open gun. It's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupie Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I reload my 9mm brass until the primers fall out and that is somewhere around 20 reloads.... I use my Dillon dies and just a hint of flare with a just enough crimp to knock the flare down. I have zero jams... JT EDIT: I really like the brass after it gets a couple of loads on it... I know it works well and it resizes easy and I know it will run through my reloader fine. My brass "problems" are more about how they go through my press than the gun. When I get a new load of once shot mixed I have all sorts of little issues with the press as I weed out the bad brass. After I load it a couple times it's all conditioned to my press and gun and it's a snap to load. m2pence what powder do you use Jim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannu Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I personally have a 9 major, already loaded 9mm, have access to large amounts of brass. I was thinking that this debate is like the muscle car v.s. tuner car debate. Take a 2010 Dodge Challenger R/T 372 horsepower 400 torque, now take a 2010 Mitsubishi Evo X 291 horsepower 300 torque. Both are fast cars, one is a big V8 and fast in straight line the other is a turbocharged 4 cylinder with all wheel drive and can hold tons of grip in the corners. The V8 has been around forever and is reliable kind of like 38 super. The Mitsubishi is an technological marvel kind of like the making major in a 9mm thanks to certain powders. Take both to a track and I'm sure the race is going to be close and your sure going to have fun. Really about personal preference. Just my thoughts. Right between my eyes : Mitsubishi Evo X and 9mm Major here I have found, people who use pretty fast powders (like 3N37, Longshot....) have issues with brass life. 9mm major, hybrid holes + fast powder = pressure level 60.000+ PSI easily (tested in pressure gun couple years ago). No 9mm brass will last that kind of beating. If you have solid barrel without holes and run more progressive powders like 3N38, HS-6, AA #7 etc your pressure level will not be much greater compared to .38 Super. Some powders like 3N38 are pretty bulky for 9mm and pain in the ass to reload, though. You have clearly better powder selection for .38 Super. Other thing is if your brass is first fired (factory ammo) in gun with loose chamber (pretty common thing in carry guns), your brass is never gonna last very long. I like 9mm Major, as I can buy factory ammo, shoot it for practice and save the brass. For match I use new Starline or Remington brass. I load my 9mm major brass ~10 times. I usually loose so many I do not have problems with brass life... I have shot with .38 SC. The biggest problem is brass availability - with 9mm you have Remington, Winchester, Magtech, Starline and many other you can load to major. With .38 SC, your options are more limited and there was time last year when Starline .38 SC brass just was not available. I just do not like rimmed .38 Super. I can get my mags work much easier with 9mm Major than rimmed .38 Super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I just bought my first open gun in 9mm, its used and I’ve not had it long enough to even get out to the range to shoot it. While shopping for this purchase I considered both 9mm major and 38 super/comp. Factors for me were: New Brass: 9mm and 38 super/com nearly the same, difference was so small as to be insignificant, both ~ $125/1000 from Starline. Once Fired Brass: 9mm common ($30+ / 1000), 38 super/comp all but non-existent. 38 super/com cost with reuse: assume you recover 66% every time you shoot, after 6 cycles you’re down to ~125 cases and have effectively gotten ~2700 reloads out of 1000 new cases, effectively your brass cost is ~$45/1000 loads. If your recovery rate is lower, cost is higher. At 33% recovery, its about $85/1000 loads. Assuming use of once fired 9mm with a 0% recovery rate, 9mm will save $15 - $50/1000 loads and compared to not picking up any 38 super/comp brass, $90/1000 loads (assuming same bullet, primer, and powder cost). I estimate that once up and running with Open, I’ll be shooting ~3000+ rounds /year so 9mm would save me $45 - $270 / year in brass, let’s say ~$150/year. That is not insignificant but it is not a huge number compared to bullets, primers, and powder (~$450 - $550/year) plus cost of ravel, match fees, etc. But with 9mm, you’re not spending time as a range chicken, picking brass unless you like to do that. For gun shopping, I priced a new Dawson prepared 9mm Trubor and used that as my baseline target of $2900. With the calculations above I assumed in 3 years, 9mm would save me ~$500 +/-. I decided if I found a used 38 super/comp that compared well to a new Dawson prepared Trubor for less than $2400, allowing more for included mag’s, it would be good deal. After three years I’d be reevaluating anyway. I found a number of 38 SC guns in that price range but most had very high round counts so I kept looking. I was ready to pull the trigger on a new gun, but then I got lucky and found a basic (oxymoron?) Trubor-based 9mm major gun for $1800 with a reasonable round count! Low purchase price and cheaper reloads! But, the right used 38 SC would have worked as well, at least for me. Economically, if you’re naturally a range chicken, 38 SC has some benefits like a larger powder selection, and possibly few feeding problems (depending on the gun). For me the fire and forget feature of 9mm is a good thing. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) The .38 Super brass that I shoot at a match almost always has been loaded 8 times or more. We have to pick up our brass at the practice range and I usually recover 98% of that. So my cost per piece of brass at a match is about 2¢. My Brazos Open blasters go bang every time with .38 Super and I've never had a feed problem that I didn't cause with a bad round or an improperly inserted magazine. I'm perfectly content to stick with .38 Super. Edited May 21, 2010 by XD Niner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beebs317 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Where do I buy 38 SuperComp ammo? I've found Starline brass, but can anyone recommend a production company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertl35 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Where do I buy 38 SuperComp ammo? I've found Starline brass, but can anyone recommend a production company? You can get loaded ammo from Atlanta arms http://www.atlantaarmsandammo.com/products.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beebs317 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Thanks Albert, do you happen to know pricing? Thanks again for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beebs317 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Sorry to ask, but I don't see it on the website, and I'm unable to call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertl35 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Sorry to ask, but I don't see it on the website, and I'm unable to call. IN38S 38 Super/Super Comp 125GR JHP (Minor or Major) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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