Revo in Production Division

[jmarlowe]

Can i shoot SW 627 in production? Anybody knows rule restrictions and proper setup...

[Waltermitty]

Can i shoot SW 627 in production? Anybody knows rule restrictions and proper setup...

Yes.

Searchable Rulebook

Production Division Interpretations

Edited October 3, 2009 by Waltermitty

[Intel6]

Jerry M just did it at the Nationals.

Neal in AZ

[Daniele]

Jerry M just did it at the Nationals.

Neal in AZ

I did it too, just for fun in a local match: NO chance against 20 rounds CZ SP 01!

Any DA/SA revolver up to 5" barrel is OK in Production.

[CJDOUBLETAP]

Jerry M just did it at the Nationals.

Neal in AZ

I did it too, just for fun in a local match: NO chance against 20 rounds CZ SP 01!

Any DA/SA revolver up to 5" barrel is OK in Production.

Only 10 rounds per mag is legal in Production.

[Waltermitty]

Jerry M just did it at the Nationals.

Neal in AZ

I did it too, just for fun in a local match: NO chance against 20 rounds CZ SP 01!

Any DA/SA revolver up to 5" barrel is OK in Production.

If somebody was shooting a CZ SP01 with 20 round magazines they had to either declare Limited division or get bumped to Open on the 12th round fired without a reload. See appendix D4 item 9 following the link above.

As for barrel length; item 7 of D4 specifies that "handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 15/16” x 6” x 1 5/8” (tolerance +1/16”, -0”) (8.938”x6”x1.625”) (227.01mmx152.40mmx41.28mm)". So a barrel just under 9" would fit.

The approved handgun list at USPSA says "Any DAO or DA/SA revolver with a barrel length of up to 8.5" is approved" for those manufacturers that have approved revolvers (Ruger, Smith, Colt).

These are USPSA rules applicable in USA of course...

Edited October 3, 2009 by Waltermitty

[jhgtyre]

Jerry M just did it at the Nationals.

Neal in AZ

I did it too, just for fun in a local match: NO chance against 20 rounds CZ SP 01!

Any DA/SA revolver up to 5" barrel is OK in Production.

Only 10 rounds per mag is legal in Production.

Since Daniele is in Italy I am thinking the rules are for IPSC Production which is different from USPSA Production.

-ld

[Waltermitty]

Jerry M just did it at the Nationals.

Neal in AZ

I did it too, just for fun in a local match: NO chance against 20 rounds CZ SP 01!

Any DA/SA revolver up to 5" barrel is OK in Production.

Only 10 rounds per mag is legal in Production.

Since Daniele is in Italy I am thinking the rules are for IPSC Production which is different from USPSA Production.

-ld

IPSC Rules

Appendix D4 page 50 item 9.

[Daniele]

Up to 20 rounds capacity in Production (here in Italy), sorry for the incomplete info.

[Tom E]

Would be nice to know what country you're in, but in USA I shoot my 627 in L-10 when I get tired of 8rd arrays with a 6 shooter. No holster restrictions and my lightened hammer and OS cyl release are legal. Downside is you can only shoot minor.

[sargenv]

I asked Carl Schmidt about a 627 in Production, no bobbed hammers.. I just so happen to have a -4 model in 38 super that would work wonderfully.

[cylindrically challenged]

It sure would be nice if the BOD would throw us revolver shooters a bone and allow us to shoot in Production with major power factor ammo. It would help close the gap with our slower reloads and 2 round shortfall. But I'm dreaming.

[Carmoney]

Guys, we have Revolver division! Let's keep the focus on increasing our ranks in Revolver instead of watering things down by fooling around in Production or L-10 just for kicks.

[dillon]

Mike,

A possible way to significantly increase the number of revolver shooters would be to allow 8-shot revolvers to shoot 8 rounds before reloading, while scoring only as minor power factor. Precident for this has already been set in Single Stack Division. This would allow most ICORE shooters to use the same equipment for both sports. This has been brought up before, but is worth persuing, IMO.

[Carmoney]

We have talked about that concept here quite a bit. But when we were given the opportunity to re-vamp the rules for USPSA Revolver division, the enthusiasts on this forum were asked what they preferred, and a very strong majority voted to stick with 6 rounds and iron sights. It's hard to argue with the numbers.

I personally think it would be interesting to allow 8 rounds scored minor to compete against 6 rounds scored major. However, I'm not really sure it would increase the number of USPSA Revo participants all that much. Are there really all that many additional people out there who would shoot USPSA on an ongoing basis if you allowed the 8-shooters to run 'em full? I don't think so. If they're up to the ultimate challenge of competing in USPSA matches with a wheel, they're probably already doing so.

[nashvillebill]

I am all for shooting a 627 in Production in the event that no one else shows up with a revolver. However, if even one of my wheel yielding brethren can make it, I would be happily obliged to compete, take a lesson or mentor, which ever if needed. And furthermore, eight shooters against six shooters in fields of eight shot arrays would not, in my opinion, be competitive no matter how it is scored.

[Carmoney]

I am all for shooting a 627 in Production in the event that no one else shows up with a revolver. However, if even one of my wheel yielding brethren can make it, I would be happily obliged to compete, take a lesson or mentor, which ever if needed.

Now that makes perfect sense to me.

[Carmoney]

And furthermore, eight shooters against six shooters in fields of eight shot arrays would not, in my opinion, be competitive no matter how it is scored.

I would agree with this also, at least in terms of those matches that offer "fields of eight shot arrays."

In a well-designed match, where the arrays are not necessarily easily divided by eight, I think the 6-round major and 8-round minor would be much closer to parity with one another. Keep in mind that despite many predictions to the contrary, the 8-round .40/45 single-stacks generally dominate over the 10-round 9mm/.38Supers. Major scoring makes a significant difference, particularly at the higher levels of competition.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Carmoney

[nub]

And furthermore, eight shooters against six shooters in fields of eight shot arrays would not, in my opinion, be competitive no matter how it is scored.

I would agree with this also, at least in terms of those matches that offer "fields of eight shot arrays."

In a well-designed match, where the arrays are not necessarily easily divided by eight, I think the 6-round major and 8-round minor would be much closer to parity with one another. Keep in mind that despite many predictions to the contrary, the 8-round .40/45 single-stacks generate dominate over the 10-round 9mm/.38Supers. Major scoring makes a significant difference, particularly at the higher levels of competition.

Yeah, Im with Mike. If you shoot minor at major matches you have to make every shot an A. Trust me on this one, I have experience.

[cylindrically challenged]

This year Jerry Miculek shot production class at the nationals with his 8 shot revo. He managed to beat 3 grand masters and finished 38th. Quite an accomplishment. But think how exciting it might have been if he were allowed to shoot his revo as a major caliber. He might have beat all of the autos. That could have inspired many shooters to give the revo a try and start a whole new kind of rivalry. It's fun to try and knock off the autos and with a power factor advantage we just might be able to pull it off. But again, I don't think that the BOD would ever give us an opportunity to be competitive in any other division. We are supposed to be happy that they have allowed us to have a division at all.

[Carmoney]

And that is sort of my point. We do have our own division in USPSA, and we need to work to keep it healthy and growing.

You can go back and refigure Jerry's results from Production Nats and pretend he was scored major. I haven't bothered to calculate it, but my guess is he would move up a few spots in the results, and that's about it. No way in the world he would have beaten all the autos--not even close. I talked to Jerry during the Production match, and he said, "I'm just playin' around."

A revolver is not going to be competitive in Production or L-10, except perhaps at local matches where the competition in those divisions is really weak. For a fun change of pace once in awhile--sure. If you can't stir up local interest in Revo division and need some competition to keep things interesting--no problem. But just like Jerry said, it's only playin' around.

Or so it seems to me.

[Tom E]

You can go back and refigure Jerry's results from Production Nats and pretend he was scored major.

Got me wondering, I ran Jerry's scores as shooting Major instead of Minor. He would have been 20th instead of 38th.

[Revopop]

You can go back and refigure Jerry's results from Production Nats and pretend he was scored major.

Got me wondering, I ran Jerry's scores as shooting Major instead of Minor. He would have been 20th instead of 38th.

Funny, that sounds awfully similar to Carmoney's placement in the Single Stack Nationals year before last. As I recall, he said it was fun shooting Minor but he'll probably never do it again.

[Carmoney]

You can go back and refigure Jerry's results from Production Nats and pretend he was scored major.

Got me wondering, I ran Jerry's scores as shooting Major instead of Minor. He would have been 20th instead of 38th.

Funny, that sounds awfully similar to Carmoney's placement in the Single Stack Nationals year before last. As I recall, he said it was fun shooting Minor but he'll probably never do it again.

Yeah, if I remember right I would have finished 31st instead of 40th.

I think it's very likely that Jerry would have finished higher than 20th place at the Production Nats if he had been shooting a "regular" autoloader Production gun instead of his 8-shot wheelgun. But who knows.

[cylindrically challenged]

What would be the down side if the BOD were to allow us to shoot our 8 shot revolvers at major power factor in production class? I still think that sounds like a lot of fun. Especially at the club level where a good revo shooter could win from time to time.