What Is Polite Society?

[DogmaDog]

well, if I were to come, my soul intention would be to win

I don't understand the opposition to this.

If I get into a gun fight, my sole (and soul) intention will be to win.

DD

[shred]

I have a friend that's been somewhat involved in Polite Society events for a while-- he's an Open Master & self-defense trainer, but he seems to think it's a pretty good thing. Kinda like SASS in that the actual shooting is somewhat secondary to the other features.. training & practice w/real carry gear in this case.

PS will let you have a 'carry comp' style gun if you want.

[Shooter Grrl]

Forgive my major thread drift here, but y'all that mentioned TN and Memphis - HELP ME - where do you shoot ??????? I can't find a public range within 100 miles of my house!

[uscbigdawg]

Kat,

Check your PM's.

Rich

[Pact-Man]

Rich may have filled Shooter Grrl in on this, but for anyone else who is interested, go to the IDPA website www.idpa.com and click on affiliated organizations, then on TN, then on MTAC. There is a list of places to shoot, and match dates. I live in KY, but have family in Memphis, and visit several times a year. The closest range is Range USA in Bartlett, they run IDPA on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and Rangemaster runs IDPA on Fridays. Rangemaster is where the PS event is going to be held, on the 28 and 29 of Feb (already full I think). Let me know if you need more info or a contact name down there. Adam

[Mark Perez]

go to www.yahoo.groups.com , has a message group for PS.

do a search for politesociety - open to members only I think.

MP

[Pact-Man]

After attending the "event" in Memphis as well as a class on how to run a PS event, I liked what I saw. Any of you "IPSC only" shooters would be very uncomfortable there, however. Speaking in general terms, PS looks down on IDPA as a game even more so than IDPA looks down on IPSC as a game. There was only one "that guy" at the conference, everyone else was great. The "event" was fun and challenging. I will say that PS as an organization has VERY loose guidelines as far as rules and procedures go. If IDPA makes you mad, PS will give you a heart attack. I shot the event like an IDPA match and did very well. Nobody yelled at me for gaming. If you get the chance check it out.

[slowsure]

I have shot a couple of these matches in TN and one was at night!!!

In basic theory the Polite Society sport is about self defense (at least the few I have attended)

IMHO all self defense theory/experiance is subjective at best. So any tactics or methods learned or "coached" from PS can be viewed as any other shooting sport.

To me its like going to diffrent shooting schools or centers they all teach something different or there would only be one school/center. Its in the eye of the beholder.

[LGator]

I dunno . . . what little I've heard about Polite Society makes me think they're mostly wannabes who are at least one shy of a six pack. These guys sound like they want to be the hardest of the hardcore defensive/combat shooting guys, but really, who else runs a HOT RANGE WITH NO 180 RULE??? Not a bright idea.

So they disqualify a person who points a (LOADED! ...hot range, remember?) gun at a person...is that going to make a person feel better if he's shot by the DQ'd person?

I don't know about y'all, but I think I'd pass on a Polite Society event. And if I owned a range, I'd seriously think about whether I'd want to open myself up to that kind of liability.

Polite Society doesn't hold matches, they call them events. They consist of lecture, training and some shooting drills. It is a slightly watered down copy of the National Tactical Invitational. There is minimal emphasis on equipment rules. Basically it is shoot what you carry. It is intended for people who carry guns daily and are looking for expanding their wealth of knowledge.

I've yet to attend an "event" but I highly doubt anyone there is a wacko. Then again, isn't wacko what the media calls all gun owners anyway? Did you ever read what the Violence Policy Center thinks of IPSC?

I have RO'd at a 360 degree hot range for the past four years now. I wouldn't do it if I thought I'd be killed. Then again the RO must be much more alert and reponsive than typical.

If it isn't your cup of tea thats ok, but don't assume too much.

-Luther

[rhino]

I might attend the big event in Tennessee next year. I think AikiDale was there this year.

[AikiDale]

Indeed I was. What bothers me is that some shooters think their discipline is the shit and the others are crappy. Some shooters are simply interested in self defense with their pistols and want to be competent. Others enjoy the sport of shooting with no thought of ever having to use a gun in the gravest extreme. I enjoy the spiritual development which comes from bashing my ego every time I demonstrate my shooting ability in front of a crowd no matter if the range is hot or cold.

[rhino]

If I go next year, we can hang out together and you can help me try to reach enlightenment!

[rehn]

re: Polite Society

I've been involved with the Polite Society since it started, and I've run the Airsoft-based force on force scenarios at the last two annual conferences. I started in IPSC back in 1988, have M rankings in IPSC and IDPA, have ROed at IPSC Nationals and made the top 20 at Steel Challenge a few years back shooting my Open gun. I see no contradiction in enjoying Open-class competition and also studying real-world defensive shooting. It's not a zero-sum game although some (very vocal people) in both communities act as if it was.

The "model" for the PS annual event isn't IPSC or IDPA. The PS is not really intended to be anything like either of those organizations. The 'model' is closer to the law enforcement training conferences, where there are a variety of events and speakers and clinics. It's also similar to the National Tactical Invitational.

Tom's original idea for local clubs was that they could put on their own events that could include anything from live fire to force on force to lectures and short training courses. More like a martial arts school for guns than the typical live fire match.

For some reason a few people have gotten all wound up about the lack of a 180 degree rule in the PS rules. At the PS conferences the stages are shot on an indoor range where the angles of fire are very limited. One club out West shoots in a canyon where natural terrain provides greater-than-180 angles of fire. Marty Hayes has a 360 degree range at the Firearms Academy of Seattle.

The real world is a 360 degree 3-D space, and with appropriate facilities and safety precautions you can run drills that go 'beyond the 180'. What is "safe" is dependent on the skill level of the participants and the range. It's assumed that anyone running a PS event (so far, mostly limited to people that have significant experience running live fire training) will run the event safely. The PS was not intended to micro-manage local activities. FWIW, the PS annual conference live fire stages are shot on an indoor range with very limited angles of fire. So you won't see any 360 degree stages in Memphis - but my force on force scenarios are full 360, 3-D.

They allow hicap mags and back up guns, lasers, weapon mounted lights (if you have an appropriate holster that conceals them and they aren't "on" in the holster) and innovation in thinking. No, you can't bring your velcro belt and race holster rig - but if you can find an IWB holster for your IPSC limited gun, you could run it with 140mm or even 170 mm mags in appropriate mag carriers. The only rule is that you are willing to walk out the front door of the range with your gear on and wear it in the real world without fear of "printing" or failing to conceal your gear.

The courses of fire include elements (3D targets, reactive targets, low light stages) that are different from any IPSC or IDPA stage, and there's an uncontrolled randomness to the stages and the scoring that's absent from IPSC or IDPA matches. The reactive rubber/3D target they use are still experimental and are rather "unimpressed" with light/fast bullets but go down hard for big slow .45 ACP bullets. I don't recommend shooting 9mm or even .357 SIG at the match. .40 and .45. This year's match winner used a hicap Glock .40.

InSights instructor Greg Hamilton, who has won the National Tactical Invitational and coached others from his school who have won it in recent years, told me his approach to NTI was to "ignore the rules and do what you would do in real life on every stage". That approach works at the PS conference match as well.

The focus I used this year to win 2nd in Pro class was simple: (a) take the time to verify a target needed shooting before shooting it ( make every shot a precision shot at a specific place on the target. "See brown paper at 3 yards, point in general direction, close eyes, pull trigger twice as fast as possible and go on" is not a winning strategy. I don't even recommend reading the course descriptions because there's no guarantee that what you'll see when you go in matches what's posted outside. The stages are all surprise and no one talks about them until after everyone has shot them.

What I like about the PS events the most is the exchange of information: no other shooting event offers the diversity in lectures and activities and the chance to learn from and talk to a lot of people active in the study and teaching of realistic self-defense.

Slots for the 2005 conference are already being filled. Anyone that plans to attend should sign up sooner rather than later. The 2004 conference sold out months in advance and it's limited to < 100 shooters.

Bring your appetite and your carry gear. The Friday all you can eat buffet at Leonard's BBQ (by the range) is worth the trip even if you don't shoot the match.

www.rangemaster.com for more details.

Karl

rehn@krtraining.com

http://www.krtraining.com

[rhino]

Thanks for taking the time to take us to school, Karl!

I knew what Polite Society was, but I didn't understand it well enough to articulate an answer as complete and thorough as yours.

[jhgtyre]

"See brown paper at 3 yards, point in general direction, close eyes, pull trigger twice as fast as possible and go on" is not a winning strategy.

I can't imagine a scenario in any game or event where it would be.

Thanks for the information.

-ld

[AikiDale]

Welcome to the forums Karl. And thanks again for the Airsoft class at the last PS convention. Next time I'll wear gloves! (or do a better job of not getting shot).

I must take issue with one point you made however. BBQ in Memphis deserves a rant in the hate forum. Nasty dried out excuse for jerky if you ask me. I don't mind at all if some actually have a taste for shoe leather, but for those of the Enosverse who have some appreciation for slow cooked over a hickory pit BBQ that is tender and practically falls off the bone before it melts in your mouth you will most likely find Memphis style BBQ quite lacking.

See you in Memphis,

Dale

[jhgtyre]

I must take issue with one point you made however. BBQ in Memphis deserves a rant in the hate forum. Nasty dried out excuse for jerky if you ask me. I don't mind at all if some actually have a taste for shoe leather, but for those of the Enosverse who have some appreciation for slow cooked over a hickory pit BBQ that is tender and practically falls off the bone before it melts in your mouth you will most likely find Memphis style BBQ quite lacking.

See you in Memphis,

Dale

Them's fightin' words! You should be punished by being forced to eat only beef ribs for the rest of your life!

-ld

[rehn]

There are a lot of great BBQ places here in Austin, and if you all you want is brisket or ribs, then maybe Leonard's is not the best place. However: the Friday night buffer has every kind of southern "soul food" you can imagine, all made with massive amounts of grease and fat and flavor.

In Feb, Tom Givens took all the guest instructors to a Brazilian steakhouse place downtown, next door to the Peabody hotel (the one with the ducks). It was pricey but extremely good. I always come back from Memphis a few pounds heavier.

re: gloves for Airsoft. I don't like using gloves because 9 times out of 10 the people using them end up having problems manipulating and shooting the Airsoft guns. I haven't found what I consider to be "ideal" gloves for FoF training yet. Hand hits are extremely common because skilled shooters always hold their guns center-mass - where the other experienced shooters are aiming. A lot of gun- and hand- hits happen that way. In some of the drills I told the 'bad guys' to shoot one handed to simulate an untrained shooter, but most people can't override their training under stress (good and bad). By shooting one handed and leaving the center chest area more open that prevents some hand hits. But sometimes people fixate on the weapon rather than the shooter and shoot the hand and gun anyway. (All things you simply can't learn by doing live-fire training, BTW).

Can't promise I'll be a regular poster here. I've been a lurker for a long time off and on. Just can't seem to find the surfing time I used to a few years ago.

Karl

[AikiDale]

"Beef, it's what's for Dinner."

re: gloves for Airsoft

I was thinking of a left hand glove for the support hand, which took 8 of the 9 hits, leaving the right hand free for trigger control.

Or I could look up Pai Mei for Iron Palm instruction!

[Kingman]

re: gloves, I know I will get hate mail for this one, but several types of paintball gloves are readily available that allow you to work a marker, and a trigger yet offer protection where needed. I would assume these would be of some help at least.

[rhino]

It seems like wearing a glove would reduce one's fear of getting shot in the hand. If I were doing a training exercise simulating force-on-force, I would prefer to have the fear (however small) to keep things as close to "real" as possible.

In real life you really, really don't want to get shot. It seems like you'd want to train that way too. I say wear the eye protection and your normal clothes and go for it.

[Garrett]

Polite Society, from what I understand, was spun off from IDPA by those who felt that IDPA was (or had become) too much of a game and that it strayed from the intent of teaching one to be "tactical" or preparing to handle a situation in a "tactically correct manner".

Ha, that sounds alot like what IDPA said when they broke away from IPSC!

[pisgahrifle]

I'd really like to give this a go. Oddly enough, I shot "honest" (from my carry rig) for the first time in a while at the range yesterday. I kinda miss shooting from cowhide.

What irks me, though, is bashing on this thing from the get-go. Guys hiding in the bushes with face-paint? C'mon, I've been to IDPA state matches where half the ROs were wearing Wilderness instructor belts and BDU pants of some kind tucked into combat boots so that'd be the pot calling the kettle black. There's folk like that in almost every action shooting sport, so we might as well just give them a nod and let them go their own way. Some mall ninja types are a shad on the off side, but I now of a few I'll let come to dinner. Hell, as much as some of us may hate to admit it, they might have something to teach us.

By the way, don't y'all know the only states that can legally make barbeque are North Carolina, South Carolina and Texas? Everybody else's is a bootlegged imitation and should be viewed about the same as green-burning liquor.