I GIVE UP! Case pro here I come

[The_Vigilante]

A cheaper alternative to the Case Pro would be the Redding GRX Sizing die which sizes the entire case. I have used it and have had zero problems with "Glocked" cases.

[itchy]

The new machine I am refering to is a based on a concept by a guy named Merlin Orr with CAD drawings by Edar Sibaja with some input from Benny and Larry. I am sure in my mind that Merlin is not the pistol..or any other kind of whipped fellow you refer too.....

There is a (very nice) working prototype right now.

Oh no, here we go again. Merlin is "selling" something instead of buying it for $200.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Seiichi

[rupie]

A cheaper alternative to the Case Pro would be the Redding GRX Sizing die which sizes the entire case. I have used it and have had zero problems with "Glocked" cases.

do these work for 9mm?

[Mark K]

A cheaper alternative to the Case Pro would be the Redding GRX Sizing die which sizes the entire case. I have used it and have had zero problems with "Glocked" cases.

do these work for 9mm?

No. Straight walled 40SW cases only. 9mm is tapered.

Mark K.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Did you measure the diameter of the bullets? 9mm just not give all the problem's that the 40's do at least that is what I have found. Your OAL seems fine at 1.100" so that is not the issue. Still curious about the bullet diameter though Thanks, Eric

[Chris Keen]

Thanks pm sent

Man, I guess Ray doesn't like me since I asked first

Did you PM him?

Usually the best way to get someones attention (as in a case like this) is to send them a PM.

[sperman]

I got this e-mail from EGW today.  This may be related to the problem.

Recently, we have been receiving phone calls that the dies were overly undersized, therefore making them the incorrect dimension as opposed to our standard

[openmike]

Before I popped for a Casepro, I had pretty good luck with this set-up:

I had the Dillon (650) shell plate surfaced down to .030" past the existing cutouts and ground the bottom of an EGW undersized die and set everything so the die would go farther down the length of the brass (in this case supercomp). It took the bulge out of the brass.

[Ray_Z]

Thanks pm sent

Man, I guess Ray doesn't like me since I asked first

Gman I apologize. I was scanning the messages instead of reading them through. If you still want it I will send it to you because you did ask first. It's only fair

[Ray_Z]

Just like I thought would happen, you can see the web in the base of the brass from the outside after sizing. You know, the part that is supposed to be sized back from the part of the case that is in the unsupported part of the chamber on firing.

Ray, seriously, you lost me here. I can assure you that thousands shooters have loaded millions of rounds with U dies with excellent results. Something, somewhere is out of whack. All the U die does is size brass .001 of an inch smaller. If the loaded rounds are neither chambering or gauging, an out of spec die is possible. I just have a feeling that we are missing something. Have you contacted George Smith at EGW?

Jim

Someone came up with the appropriate term for the ailment. It has a coke bottle effect. It is obvious where the brass was positioned over the unsupported section of the Glock barrel (ramp). The brass is coke bottled at that point. I use my Rock Chucker for tasks like this. The U die was adjusted properly. I set all my resize dies to just cam over as they come in contact with the die (I can Feel it). If I had to do anything more it would be to grind the die or the shell plate down. The u die is supposed to be the answer to a problem. Not the beginning of a redesign stage in my life. I don't have a surface grinder here, And I don't think a mini grinder is the appropriate tool of the month.

[Ray_Z]

A cheaper alternative to the Case Pro would be the Redding GRX Sizing die which sizes the entire case. I have used it and have had zero problems with "Glocked" cases.

I have the Redding GRX die for 40 S&W brass. It works great. When I first got it and used it for the first time I was so impressed that I e-mailed the folks at Redding and told them how good it did on Glocked 40 brass. At the same time I asked if they had planned to produce a similar set up in 9mm. The e-mail I got back from them said that because 9mm was a semi rimmed cartridge case the concept would not work and that they weren't going to make one in 9mm.

Hell, I'm a tight ass 'ol German. If I can save a buck, I will. When I do make a mistake. I try to rectify it and go on. It's apparent that the U die is not the answer to the problem. Christmas is coming. I'll ask Santa to bring me donations to my case pro fund. At the same time I'll remind the kids that "when daddy isn't happy, noooo bodies happy". Gotta go with what works, huh!

[CocoBolo]

1. You can size loaded ammo in a case pro I do it all the time with 38Super. There is nothing to hit the primer, but I don't stand over it, and you must manually feed it in. I have also run a few fat boy 9's thru there as well.

2. I have to wonder why you would be loading ammo into a gun if it did not fall in and out of a drop check aka SAMMI Gauge. On my longer 9 mm they won't fit all the way in I check them bassackwards put the primer end in then flip it around and put it in bullet first to check for crimp these are only for my Infinity and will not fit other guns.

3. The most trouble I have had with 9 mm is getting the length right for the Gun, and my Sigs eat anything it is the Wife's CZ that likes them short, go figure. Each "bullet" has its own profile and getting it right takes a little work with the barrel out of the gun checking it and then doing the mag cycleing thing followed by shooting it.

I used the U-die and found it did little more than the regular Die, even after grinding the end down some, that just made it harder to hit. Glocked brass or 9 mm Major brass can be a problem and the easy solution is to just deprime and size all the brass first then drop check just the brass, if the brass drop checks then load else put it in the recycle bucket. After loading if you have an issue you know it is not the brass it is something else that is messed up. You still drop check after loading.

When Merlin's machine hits I will certainly be interested and I have a 5 hp 15 cfm compressor right next to the loading bench so I'm ready!

I'm going to call Redding and see if I can get an udersized GRX for 9 mm. I didn't have trouble with 40 but I like the insurance of the GRX then I know its not a fat boy. The CasePro is awesome it lets you keep reusing the brass till it splits, just nail it to the bench next to the loader and put the tube from your case feeder into it and go.

[Jman]

Just like I thought would happen, you can see the web in the base of the brass from the outside after sizing. You know, the part that is supposed to be sized back from the part of the case that is in the unsupported part of the chamber on firing.

Ray, seriously, you lost me here. I can assure you that thousands shooters have loaded millions of rounds with U dies with excellent results. Something, somewhere is out of whack. All the U die does is size brass .001 of an inch smaller. If the loaded rounds are neither chambering or gauging, an out of spec die is possible. I just have a feeling that we are missing something. Have you contacted George Smith at EGW?

Jim

Someone came up with the appropriate term for the ailment. It has a coke bottle effect. It is obvious where the brass was positioned over the unsupported section of the Glock barrel (ramp). The brass is coke bottled at that point. I use my Rock Chucker for tasks like this. The U die was adjusted properly. I set all my resize dies to just cam over as they come in contact with the die (I can Feel it). If I had to do anything more it would be to grind the die or the shell plate down. The u die is supposed to be the answer to a problem. Not the beginning of a redesign stage in my life. I don't have a surface grinder here, And I don't think a mini grinder is the appropriate tool of the month.

I use the U die on .400 jacketed .40 S&W loads to insure against bullet set back. The light coke bottle profile is what I want to see. The .356 (9's) and .401 (40's) provide that insurance without the undersized die. Using the U die with these bullets would be overkill IMO. The results will be misaligned, hour glass shaped rounds. No need for the -.001 sizer die when the bullets I use are +.001. I can understand the need (somewhat) for a Case Pro if your a high volume 38 Super/Super Comp Open shooter. But for minor 9 and major .40? Not so much.

Jim

[Ray_Z]

1. You can size loaded ammo in a case pro I do it all the time with 38Super. There is nothing to hit the primer, but I don't stand over it, and you must manually feed it in. I have also run a few fat boy 9's thru there as well.

2. I have to wonder why you would be loading ammo into a gun if it did not fall in and out of a drop check aka SAMMI Gauge. On my longer 9 mm they won't fit all the way in I check them bassackwards put the primer end in then flip it around and put it in bullet first to check for crimp these are only for my Infinity and will not fit other guns.

3. The most trouble I have had with 9 mm is getting the length right for the Gun, and my Sigs eat anything it is the Wife's CZ that likes them short, go figure. Each "bullet" has its own profile and getting it right takes a little work with the barrel out of the gun checking it and then doing the mag cycleing thing followed by shooting it.

I used the U-die and found it did little more than the regular Die, even after grinding the end down some, that just made it harder to hit. Glocked brass or 9 mm Major brass can be a problem and the easy solution is to just deprime and size all the brass first then drop check just the brass, if the brass drop checks then load else put it in the recycle bucket. After loading if you have an issue you know it is not the brass it is something else that is messed up. You still drop check after loading.

When Merlin's machine hits I will certainly be interested and I have a 5 hp 15 cfm compressor right next to the loading bench so I'm ready!

I'm going to call Redding and see if I can get an udersized GRX for 9 mm. I didn't have trouble with 40 but I like the insurance of the GRX then I know its not a fat boy. The CasePro is awesome it lets you keep reusing the brass till it splits, just nail it to the bench next to the loader and put the tube from your case feeder into it and go.

#2

I read the posts on the U die and unfortunately believed everything I read. I didn't check the brass after sizing (dumb!)

#3

I agree, the sizing that got done was as good as I could do with the Dillon dies I already have.

[Ray_Z]

Just like I thought would happen, you can see the web in the base of the brass from the outside after sizing. You know, the part that is supposed to be sized back from the part of the case that is in the unsupported part of the chamber on firing.

Ray, seriously, you lost me here. I can assure you that thousands shooters have loaded millions of rounds with U dies with excellent results. Something, somewhere is out of whack. All the U die does is size brass .001 of an inch smaller. If the loaded rounds are neither chambering or gauging, an out of spec die is possible. I just have a feeling that we are missing something. Have you contacted George Smith at EGW?

Jim

Someone came up with the appropriate term for the ailment. It has a coke bottle effect. It is obvious where the brass was positioned over the unsupported section of the Glock barrel (ramp). The brass is coke bottled at that point. I use my Rock Chucker for tasks like this. The U die was adjusted properly. I set all my resize dies to just cam over as they come in contact with the die (I can Feel it). If I had to do anything more it would be to grind the die or the shell plate down. The u die is supposed to be the answer to a problem. Not the beginning of a redesign stage in my life. I don't have a surface grinder here, And I don't think a mini grinder is the appropriate tool of the month.

I use the U die on .400 jacketed .40 S&W loads to insure against bullet set back. The light coke bottle profile is what I want to see. The .356 (9's) and .401 (40's) provide that insurance without the undersized die. Using the U die with these bullets would be overkill IMO. The results will be misaligned, hour glass shaped rounds. No need for the -.001 sizer die when the bullets I use are +.001. I can understand the need (somewhat) for a Case Pro if your a high volume 38 Super/Super Comp Open shooter. But for minor 9 and major .40? Not so much.

Jim

Jman

Don't you find a reduced accuracy from the bullet distortion you would get from sizing the loaded cartridge?

[Chills1994]

Did you contact EGW yet?

Dontchya remember my post back on the first page where I said something along the lines of "there was a thread here a little while back about EGW sending out 9mm dies that were bad." ??

If a product is NOT doing what it is purported to do, then it is high time you take that issue up with the manufacturer of said product?

[wide45]

There is a lot of brass out there that is too badly blown out for a U die to save it.

Brass that has been expanded down close by the extractor grove is wrecked. Throw it away.

[lugnut]

I reuse Glock 9mm all the time.. both from my Glocks and several others and don't have problems with a regular RCBS die! What the heck kind of Glocks do these guys have????? Wow.

[CocoBolo]

Ray - I size about 1 or 2 loaded rounds per 1000 and they go into the boxes with the rest of the match quality rounds if they look good and pass the drop test. So I can't say if they have the same accuracy.

I keep a 3 lb coffee can on the bench its where the mistakes go when it gets full I break some down chunk some etc.

I load 9 mm on a Hornady lock and load and sometimes they eject before being crimped (darned wire ejector) so I drop check them all, the failures go thru the crimp die one more time if they don't pass straight to the mistakes can.

The reason I have to run a loaded round is because I probably didn't run that round thru the casepro.

Loading is a process so you just need to develope a procedure from start to finish with a quality check at the end.

The first and last rounds loaded are always a little shorter as not all stations are full so they go in the NMQ pile. Not Match Quality, so I shoot them when I zero or practice or when a possum is eating one of my chickens.

When I had a lot of 9 mm failures I stuck to the deprime size and then drop check before loading, saved a lot of primers.

I do all my 40's on a Dillon 650 it works about as well as the LNL just a little harder to do the one up stuff like recrimping.

[Jman]

Ray,

I'm not resizing loaded rounds. Just resizing clean brass before loading them. Sorry for the confusion. I will get a mis-aligned bullet using the U die but very rarely. I adjusted the way I place the bullet. Its sort of a slight roll or spin of the bullet and case mouth between the thumb and index finger. This also allows me to check that the round is well centered in the shell holder.

The U die and high output progressive machines can be problematical. But, as mentioned in posts over the years, many have incorporated a standard re-sizer with de-capper on the first station. Then the U die with the de-capper removed in the second. This works very nicely. Everything is straight and aligned correctly.

Glocked brass. A bit of an urban legend these days. But, all together valid if you shoot with Glockers using 7 year old or older OEM barrels. Those chambers were stupid loose. The newer 9's and .40's are significantly tighter. Bad brass is no longer an exclusive Glock franchise.

Here is to better rounds and great shooting

Jim

[G-ManBart]

Thanks pm sent

Man, I guess Ray doesn't like me since I asked first

Gman I apologize. I was scanning the messages instead of reading them through. If you still want it I will send it to you because you did ask first. It's only fair

Hi Ray,

That's very generous...I definitely appreciate it. Randy is a great guy and he's helping set up a newbie with some stuff, so please, send it his way. I need to order a couple of other things soon anyway and I may have a line on a free/used U-die as well, so I'd rather see this one go to someone getting started

[G-ManBart]

Glocked brass. A bit of an urban legend these days. But, all together valid if you shoot with Glockers using 7 year old or older OEM barrels. Those chambers were stupid loose. The newer 9's and .40's are significantly tighter. Bad brass is no longer an exclusive Glock franchise.

I'd go even older than that...at least for .40 anyway. I bought my older G22 in 1994 (I think...one year either way at most) and while it gives me typical Glock brass with a slight bulge above the extractor groove it's not terrible and it looks the same as brass out of my issued G22 which is a new (2009) replacement gun since I cracked the frame on my older one.

The funny thing is that 9 brass doesn't bulge as badly as .40 because the very nature of the tapered 9mm means they don't have to cut the chamber mouth as much oversized to have the same level of feed reliability. R,

[CocoBolo]

I just want to set the record straight. After posting that the CasePro guy was hiding out in Pakistan I got a call from him and I now have the 40 and 9 mm die that I wanted. So I have to say he is back and producing CasePro's and parts.

I already ran about 2000 9 mm cases thru the new die. These are for my new 9 mm open gun.

[Ray_Z]

Ray.. I am in the same boat. Tried the Lee U die and did not like it at all... I am sure the next post will tell you it was not adjusted far enough down and THAT is the problem... But.,, A Case pro will do the job with no coke bottle and no off center bullets and weird shapes to your loaded ammo.

Actually... IF you can wait about 30 days - Before you spend the bucks on a Case Pro there is a new (totally different) powered machine coming out Very soon that (for Non Rimmed) pistol brass does the job much faster and with 100% effectiveness...

ok, the clock is ticking. I've saved my pennies and nickles (two very large shot bags full) and I have enough to buy the case pro that I need to take care of the glocked brass problem. Merlin, you said that you had a new and improved. Whassss hupp dude?

[Cy Soto]

I don't use this service but, while you wait to get your roll sizer, I have heard that you can send your brass to Kenny at Speed Shooters Specialties ( http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/ ) and he will roll size your brass for one cent per piece.