Kydex vs. Locking Race Holster for Open?

[Religious Shooter]

I don't see the Tactical holsters being used by Open shooters in pistol-only matches. Why is it different in 3 gun?

The Arredondo and the CR Speed (and other holsters) can be configured to have different levels of retention. You can lock them up, set them to have a heavy pull weight (12lbs for the Arredondo) or set them to have little to no tension.

So what are the reasons for using a Tactical type Kydex holster over a CR Speed/Arredondo/etc.?

Are these reasons due to actual events?

[ken hebert]

Personally I find that with the multiple positions normally associated with a traditional 3gun stage, namely prone, that my pistol stays cleaner in a complete coverage type holster like a kydex versus a CR speed. Also I'm just not totally comfortable with the chance that the stock of my rifle or shotgun will not inadvertantly dislodge it partly from the retention devices in place and have it "flopping" around.

Sum it up, it just makes me feel a bit more confidant in my movements.

[Charles Bond]

To expound a tad on Ken's post above, you are going to have a much better match knowing your pistol is secure and not likely to be damaged. I once used a kydex famous maker holster with a retention device, I will never do that again. My personal preference is a blade tech.

While there are a no kydex open holsters, to buy one for a limted gun of the style you shoot and convert it to handle your open gun is so easy that even a cave man can do it. If you are still challenged, there are threads on a number of sites that will give you step by step instructions provided you have the ability to burn yourself with a heat gun and cut off a finger with a dremel tool.

[Jadeslade]

I don't see the Tactical holsters being used by Open shooters in pistol-only matches. Why is it different in 3 gun?

The Arredondo and the CR Speed (and other holsters) can be configured to have different levels of retention. You can lock them up, set them to have a heavy pull weight (12lbs for the Arredondo) or set them to have little to no tension.

So what are the reasons for using a Tactical type Kydex holster over a CR Speed/Arredondo/etc.?

Are these reasons due to actual events?

I have a Ghost for Open, a CRSpeed Limited, and a Kytac for Production. My main reasons are that there are no moving parts to go wrong in a "Tactical" type holster. For that matter, a good leather belt holster with pressure retention (like Galco) would work as well. There is good retention with the Open and Limited holsters, but not for extreme movement or going prone, or getting out of a hide backwards like you need to do in some scenarios. If there is mud, even worse. Yes there are specific instances, and a wealth of experience for all to benefit. Do like Charles says, you will be happier in the long run.

[Nik Habicht]

Some (Most?) race holsters can be defeated in directions other than intended (up) by the application of sufficient (not a lot in the grand scheme of things) force.....

Tactical holsters will generally resist defeat in directions other than up --- to a greater extent. Add in retention features, like Level II (Safariland Thigh Holster?) or even Level III and the likelihood of losing or knocking a blaster out of the holster goes down further.....

I sold off all race holsters years ago. Even if I were to compete in Open in the future, I'd be running kydex --- unless I was serious about Steel Challenge....

[EkuJustice]

I would go Kydex as the draw is not that much slower from Kydex than a race holster. In 3 gun with the length of the stages your not going to loose the match on the draw. You will loose it with a DQ if the pistol falls from the race holster

[G-ManBart]

I run a race holster (Guga Ribas) in pistol matches, but no way I'd run it in 3-gun. Why? It's not a retention issue as you'd have to break the trigger guard off the gun to get it out, it's about protecting my gun. If the gun is hanging out there in the open it's going to get smacked around, hit by stocks, etc and that's even before you think about keeping it clean. If I decided to shoot Open 3-gun I'd probably have a gun built with a slide mounted scope and custom fit a kydex holster for it. R,

[RiggerJJ]

I ran a Kydex (custom made) for a while with my open pistol, (both 3 gun and pistol only matches) and just didn't like the unreliability of security in 3 gun matches. I have seen more pistols dropped out of Kydex holsters than any other in 3gun matches. the friction only type holsters just don't cut it. you could add a thumb break thou...level 2 (at least) security is needed for 3 gun.

I now run a Ghost and love it, but I did add a muzzle cup to it to keep it from moving around the trigger guard...

as for the keeping it clean thing, a Kydex won't keep your pistol clean either...it will act as a shovel when you are wallowing in the dirt/mud.

jj

Edited December 1, 2009 by RiggerJJ

[Chris]

Here's why. 2007 SMM3G. Dropped open gun from a race holster. Saw another dropped open gun at the 2009 3Gun Nats.

Each time it has been on a pistol/sg stage and the gun gets bumped out of the holster when they grab the tech-loader tubes from their leg pouch.

I dont even use a race holster for pistol matches any more with my limited gun. The kydex holster is just as fast and a lot more comfortable to wear all day.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Chris

[sierra77mk]

A race holster has no place in three gun and they should be banned for safety reasons IMO.

I've seen two shooters get DQ'd for dropped guns. Had muzzle of a dropped weapon pointed right at me.

Even if I thought my open holster was perfect I still would not use for a 3gun match because of the same reasons others have said.

Protection for the weapon itself.

Protection for safety reasons.

Protection from a DQ.

[LPatterson]

While there are a no kydex open holsters, to buy one for a limted gun of the style you shoot and convert it to handle your open gun is so easy that even a cave man can do it. If you are still challenged, there are threads on a number of sites that will give you step by step instructions provided you have the ability to burn yourself with a heat gun and cut off a finger with a dremel tool.

I must be worse than a cave man because it took 3 days of cutting and grinding before my CR Speed would hold and release my Glock 24C with a Carver Mount and I don't see how to even make a Serpa hold the G24 after cutting it up for the Carver so I'll pay you the cost of a Kydex holster if you'll fit it for me.

[Nik Habicht]

With a Carver Mount that's likely to be tough.....

With an SJC Mount, it's likely to be as doable as it is for an STI.....

With a slideriding optic --- piece of cake.....

[SinistralRifleman]

Here's the real question; Is an Open pistol even that much of an advantage in Open in 3 Gun? Is having an optic really that much of an advantage vs capacity and maybe compensation alone?

Edited December 12, 2009 by SinistralRifleman

[OPENB]

After shooting stage 8 at Ft. Benning, I'd say yes, a true open gun was a distinct advantage.

[smokshwn]

Here's the real question; Is an Open pistol even that much of an advantage in Open in 3 Gun? Is having an optic really that much of an advantage vs capacity and maybe compensation alone?

Depends on the match in question.

USPSA Multigun Nationals..ran my open gun...The open gun was worth the advantage on the pistol only stages as well as when the stages had pistol involved due to the use of hardcover, no shoots etc.

RM3G..ran a Glock 34...no real advantage due to wide open targets, very few pistol points and the ability to just throw the glock in a bucket when abandoned.

As to the OP's question, don't confuse kydex with retention. If you take a locked Gugas, Ghost, Limcat and snag a sling/speedloader/prop on the pistol its not coming out unless the trigger guard breaks. If you try the same thing with a blade tech, regardless of the gun, its coming out of the holster. I will agree all day long that there is a "feeling" of increased security to a Kydex holster, but I have learned that the bikini holsters (in my case a gugas) are just as secure when the idiot wearing them runs them correctly. That being said I run both a kydex for my open gun and the gugas depending on the match. But as Chris indicated the decision usually revolves around protecting the gun not some perception of increased security.

Edited December 13, 2009 by smokshwn