PhotoRecon Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Our local shooting complex is a work in progress. It seems there is a constant debate among the members as to safety issues that never seem to get resolved. Does anyone have any recommendations on professionals or firms that conduct comprehensive range safety evaluations and produce a written report of their findings? Regards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 PM sent If you have a good answer, let's see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 PM sent Please share your thoughts, A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 PM sent If you have a good answer, let's see it. Since I am not a forum "sponsor" it was better sent direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Not sure I would resort to bringing somebody in from the outside. No telling what they will find wrong and open up a whole big can of worms. Kind of reminds me of the infamous, "courtesy I.G. inspections" in the Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDB Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Not sure I would resort to bringing somebody in from the outside. No telling what they will find wrong and open up a whole big can of worms. Kind of reminds me of the infamous, "courtesy I.G. inspections" in the Army. There are some memories I could leave behind. But as to the question doesn't the NRA have a range program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 There are some memories I could leave behind. But as to the question doesn't the NRA have a range program? Yep, took the class, and no disrespect, but they are focused on shooting lines with targets on stands, bullet flies perpendicular to both. Works for most of the layout, but not for "action shooting" which is what most of the folks on here do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenmanxxx Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Our local Gov't,(County) has a commision that oversees all the ranges here. It is composed of members from local ranges. They make sure we are in compliance with all local laws and safety regulations. In addition we are reworking our ranges to meet NRA specs so we can have NRA sanctioned matches here. NRA's headquarters is about 30 miles from us so it is no problem having them come out and offer us "advice". It also helps that one of our members is photographing and cataloging all of the NRA museums firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Does anyone have any recommendations on professionals or firms that conduct comprehensive range safety evaluations and produce a written report of their findings? Do keep in mind that You may not be able to mitigate everything that the inspector sees as a "safety violation". You will be creating an expert wittness what has notified you of your safety shortcomings, may be subject to supoena, and created discoverable evidence in the form of his/her report. See #1 above If your legal counsel retains the inspector for the purpose of examing safety as part of a legal review, it may be possible to have the inspection, and report, protected by attorney-client privilege. If you have a club member who is a member of the bar, you may be able to get him to help with #3 on the cheap. Do NOT assume that solid pro-gun credentials means someone will not speak out against your club in the future. I have seen a case where there was an incident at a club (not involving any USPSA members), and the media had no problem finding club members, and a former board member of the club, to do interviews explaining how negligent they though the club was. With friends like this who needs enemies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Clark Vargas...he is on facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Does anyone have any recommendations on professionals or firms that conduct comprehensive range safety evaluations and produce a written report of their findings? Do keep in mind that You may not be able to mitigate everything that the inspector sees as a "safety violation". You will be creating an expert wittness what has notified you of your safety shortcomings, may be subject to supoena, and created discoverable evidence in the form of his/her report. See #1 above If your legal counsel retains the inspector for the purpose of examing safety as part of a legal review, it may be possible to have the inspection, and report, protected by attorney-client privilege. If you have a club member who is a member of the bar, you may be able to get him to help with #3 on the cheap. Do NOT assume that solid pro-gun credentials means someone will not speak out against your club in the future. I have seen a case where there was an incident at a club (not involving any USPSA members), and the media had no problem finding club members, and a former board member of the club, to do interviews explaining how negligent they though the club was. With friends like this who needs enemies? Hence, my comment above. Only this is much more in depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Do keep in mind that You may not be able to mitigate everything that the inspector sees as a "safety violation". You will be creating an expert wittness what has notified you of your safety shortcomings, may be subject to supoena, and created discoverable evidence in the form of his/her report. See #1 above If your legal counsel retains the inspector for the purpose of examing safety as part of a legal review, it may be possible to have the inspection, and report, protected by attorney-client privilege. If you have a club member who is a member of the bar, you may be able to get him to help with #3 on the cheap. Do NOT assume that solid pro-gun credentials means someone will not speak out against your club in the future. I have seen a case where there was an incident at a club (not involving any USPSA members), and the media had no problem finding club members, and a former board member of the club, to do interviews explaining how negligent they though the club was. With friends like this who needs enemies? Well said! And the reason that a professional license is beneficial so that they are bound by contract and professional rules of conduct to not "freelance" opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoRecon Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 MarkCO: PM sent. Everyone: Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments. Any reasonable person, acting prudently, and with some basic firearms knowledge would be able to site profound safety issues at our shooting complex. The BOD doesn't seem to be willing to listen to locals experienced and trained in firearms safety so my hope is that they would listen to a professional or a firm with a track record and the credentials to back up their conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzdizzi Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 My husband has done this for a couple of ranges back east and a private range here in California. He's taken the same courses with the NRA. Ultimately, they are all recommendations, but it's nice to have a range be mature enough to think that they don't know everything and have an outside set of eyes take a look around. Stef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 What Rob Boudrie said, plus . . . Aside from any classes NRA might offer on range construction, they also offer consultations where a Range Technical Team inspects/consults on range design and construction. For the true poo, you can reach the NRA HQ operator at (703) 267-1000 and ask to speak to someone in Range Services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 What Rob Boudrie said, plus . . .Aside from any classes NRA might offer on range construction, they also offer consultations where a Range Technical Team inspects/consults on range design and construction. For the true poo, you can reach the NRA HQ operator at (703) 267-1000 and ask to speak to someone in Range Services. Be warned that the advice given by the NRA consultants is NOT compatible with uspsa or idpa safety rules . If you implement the NRA suggestions, it will be the end of uspsa , steel or idpa at your range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreblePlink Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I have witnessed the NRA range visit service. While he seemed reasonably knowledgeable in general, he knew virtually nothing about USPSA or IDPA type shooting, and was of no practical help with berm size, layout, etc. It seems to me that the USPSA does an excellent job training ROs. I sincerely wish USPSA would offer similar guidance about range design and safety standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoRecon Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) This is a photo from our rifle line looking downrange. One safety issue in debate is the conflict of having multiple shooting disciplines going at the same time. I contend our range is not arranged to allow such a schedule. In the photo you'll notice a black arrow. That is a small berm this side of the skeet pad. To the left of that is four handgun bays. Directly behind the skeet pad is a sporting clays area. That berm is about 250 yards downrange. The sporting clays area is probably over 400 yards downrange. Also, the sporting clays area is directly behind the four handgun bays. I can hear bullet splatter richocet in that direction all the time. Fortunately, the sporting clays and skeet areas are not in operation yet. I'm convinced that no one should be downrange of the rifle line while it is in use given our layout. The board when confronted about the overlapping fields of fire thinks its a matter of opinion. Looks pretty simple to me. Here is another photo with a better context of the situation. The arrow on the far left is the pistol bay berm and the arrow in the middle is the skeet pad. The bench gives you an idea of the direction of fire from the rifle line. Edited November 20, 2009 by PhotoRecon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 +1 on Clark Vargas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Brass Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Clark Vargas...he is on facebook. I believe he is a competition shooter also and very familiar with IDPA/USPSA. He has done some work for our club. He seems to know his stuff from my experience with him. Someone at the NRA recomended him to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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