Benefits Of .40 S&w Over .45 Acp For Ipsc?

[Nemo]

Wonder what BE has to say about this...

GrandMaster-Blaster, are you out there?

Cheers &...

[bountyhunter]

Recoil is the same but 40 has a shorter pulse and is back on track sooner.

Glad to finally see somebody else saying what I have been saying for years.

[Flexmoney]

njrich asked this in a different thread...I brought it here.

it's been along time so go easy guys and gals.

i forgot half of what i remember lol(ty cobb).

i'm asking as far as recoil, muzzle flip.

also in 45 what causes them more a heavier bullet or amount of powder? meaning will 230 with a lower charge kick as much as a 185 with a higher one to make major?

[Duane Thomas]

That would be true IF the top competitors had seperate L10 guns instead of downloaded Limited guns doing double duty. Aside from TGO I don't think any of them do/did.

At the 2002 Factory Gun Nationals, TGO and Ron Avery both shot longslide, singlestack .45s. Robbie used Springfield (of course), for Ron it was STI. Aside from that the only Super Squad members not running doublestack .40 caliber 1911 variants were Production or Revolver shooters.

[Duane Thomas]

I think the front sight comeing back to the A zone quicker will get more points in one match than that .005 on a edge hit will get you in a year.

Well....it's actually five/one-hundrethds, not five/one-thousandths, if you want to get excruciatingly technical about it. Which of course I do.

[Duane Thomas]

I like the fact that it has done a great job for 92 yrs. When the .40 has that much time in the field, we'll take another look to see which one is better.

You....you....conservative, you.

Seriously, years ago Jan Libourel did one of the best gun articles I've ever read, on the, how shall we say, extra-logical reasons the 1911 .45 is so popular with so many people, called "The Cult of the Colt." (At the time, Colt was the most popular maker of 1911s, which should give you some idea how long ago this was.) One of the reasons was, "It's an old design." Shooters in general seem to a bit more conservative - both politically and otherwise - and reactionary than the general lot of humanity. The 1911 and .45 ACP's age, the fact they've been around so long, really strikes a chord with a lot of people.

[Duane Thomas]

More rounds (yes, it makes a difference, you have more choices in where to reload in a stage) 22 in my para, v. max of 18 in a like equipped para.... thats 8 extra rounds in 2 mags (7 if you down load the second mag) that could cost you another reload in the match.

Years ago Brian Enos (based on his immense experience) listed the combinations of caliber (.40 or .45) and mag configuration (singlestack or doublestack) and how easy it was to make a 1911-pattern gun feed 100 percent of the time. From easiest to hardest, it went like this:

Singlestack .45

Doublestack .40

Singlestack .40

Doublestack .45

Not to say, taken individually, any gun in any of these configurations couldn't be reliable, but for myself I'd want .45 in a singlestack, and doublestack in a .40.

As to mag capacity and how it affects the possibility of getting caught with a standing reload in USPSA, I once discussed this with Master class shooter Tim Bacus. Tim noted that people using doublestack .45s in USPSA tend to get themselves in trouble. People using singlestack .45s don't, because with such a gun it's simple: any time you move, you're reloading. People with doublestack .40s don't, because with its high mag capacity you've usually got enough ammo on-tap to get you out of any trouble you get into. But the doublestack .45 gives you just ammo to get yourself in trouble....but not always enough to get out of it.

[Rob Boudrie]

.40 brass is free or real cheap.

so is .45... cheap is retorspect.

The only real reason in IPSC to use the .40 is mag capacity. Everyone has to shoot the same size magazine...the more rounds you can get into it the better. Therefor use the .40

Now if were in L10 I would prefer to use a .45 for the feel.

The going rate for 40s&w is $59.95 for 5,000 delivered. Do you know of any 45 brass supplies at any price close to that?

[MikeFoley]

Glad to see this thread back again.

I shoot .40 in a STI widebody in Limited and Limited 10 because as the rules are now, there is no advantage to shooting a single stack. To make things simple, I use the same major load in 3 guns, the STI doublestack, a singlestack STI, a S&W 646 revolver, and it will also work in a Glock 35. I like loading thousands of one recipe, then taking whatever gun I choose and a box of ammo to the range.

With that said, I like singlestack .45 for various reasons. #1 far more easy to get it to feed and function with a variety of ammo and the mags are available everywhere from Wilson and McCormick, (although my .40 feeds 100% too, it is less common). #2 the cool factor #3 edge hit diameter #4 millions of guns to choose from vs. only an expensive few in .40 #5 recoil is a non-issue with proper load selection and shooting skills. (on a side note, .45 ACP revolvers load much easier with round nose bullets than my .40)

Remember, I still chose a .40, mainly because of 21 round capacity in Limited, but get warm feelings shooting the .45s of others and find myself looking at them in magazines, catalogs, the internet, stores, ranges, holsters, and anywhere I find them. I just cannot force myself to load another caliber yet. I am shooting 10,000 .40s a year, and do not want to change my 650. Yeah, I know, it is no big deal, I don't mind the shell plate and toolhead, but the primer system and case feed is more of an ordeal for a few rounds of .45.

I guess it boils down to this: I like Limited best, so I am geared toward it and the .40 which is king in the major caliber to magazine capacity ratio. If I were shooting only L10, Revolver, or Production, then I would have chosen .45 in the single stack, revovler, and production guns.

[MikeFoley]

I hope I didn't sound too much like a certain candidate in that last post playing both sides of the issue. Seriously though, I do shoot .40 exclusively, but have real interest in .45 too. I had to choose based on USPSA Limited being my primary interest, magazine capacity, and reloading being only a necessary evil to get higher quality, lower priced, large quantities of ammo without leaving the house. I hope I am not in violation of political posts, I did not mention which candidate, party, position, or any other specifics. Hell, it sounds like all politicians, doesn't it?

[HI5-O]

For me, I like the .40 because of: free brass, cheaper bullets, higher mag capacity, cheaper shipping on bullets, same size primer as my .38 super comp, wide range of bullet weights, ability to download to minor in production.

[wide45]

22 in my para, v. max of 18 in a like equipped para....

19 rounds of .45 in the Para. 18 in the mag, 1 in the chamber.

If you are getting 22 rounds of .40 in a mag I want to know how (but not in this thread).

.45 jacketed is expensive, most shoot lead.

.40 jacketed not so bad, lead is a super cheap option.

[Flexmoney]

If you are getting 22 rounds of .40 in a mag I want to know how (but not in this thread).

.

Wide...I think that is pretty common. Try a search before yuo start a new thread.

[.40AET]

If you are getting 22 rounds of .40 in a mag I want to know how (but not in this thread).

My para mags would hold 21, but were not reloadable. 20 in a mag if a reload was needed. You can get 22 if you strip one off of a mag and stuff another mag with 21 into the gun at the start of a COF. If you sent your mags to the magmaster, you might get a reloadable 21, but 22, I'd like to see it.

Back to the thread..... I sold my .45 to move to a .40 for IPSC and have never looked back.

[Chuck D]

Rob: still have half a 55 gallon drum of once fired 45acp brass my father bought (or should I say bartered for) YEARS ago. I haven't "policed" my own brass with any great regularity in over 6 years. I also understand I'm the exception to the rule.

It's cheaper to shoot 40 as Wide so correctly states but the 45 is still a "competitive option" in L10.

[Jasonub]

I came from a 45 and went to the 40 since it has more bullets

[Mistral404]

I started with .45 in a single stack which I still enjoy shooting.

I went with .40 in a wide body because of more rounds. I really enjoy shooting the .40. I do perceive less recoil with the same power factor in a .45

I am thinking about doing a .40 in a single stack just because it is easier to keep everything the same.

I would definitely recommend a wide body .40.

[doctabako]

I've always been a fan of the .45 and have stubbornly stuck to it when I started shooting in IPSC competitions last year . As you gain more experience in competitions, you get to realize that you really are at a disadvantage with the lesser round count of a pistol in .45 cal specially in Long courses. All things being equal, the guy who reloads least ends up with the best time so I decided to make the change 4 months ago to an STI .40 and have never looked back. I'm still partial to 200 gr heads in my .40 as the recoil impulse is closer to that of a .45 which I like.

For personal defense I still carry a Glock 30.

[GvU]

You will have to try various bulletweights 165, 180, 190, 200 and maybe try some springs 12.5, 14, 15 , 16 pounds. Just find out for yourself!

I've been trying some of that. Cannott find much in different bulletweights (me beeing insensitive), in springs I wound up with 14#.

I did shoot 45acp for quite some time (230 and 16#) in a PO (actually started with a singlestack Colt in 45acp), then changed the PO to 40S&W, extra capacity was the main reason. I find the 40 just a little easier to shoot, but I do admit it's marginally. Leaves just more rounds in the mags, which actually gives you more freedom as were to make your reloads.

Actually this sommer I had to shoot 45 again for a couple of weeks and the difference was there, but slight indeed!

I think the most important is shoot a lot, if possible.

John