Who shoots a Hi-Power is ESP?

[A62335]

I joined IDPA a few weeks ago since the steel season is coming to a close here in NV, and I need something to occupy my time during the winter. I shoot a 1911 in USPSA, but I've had the bug for getting a BHP for a while. There isn't a division the BHP fits in USPSA, but I could shoot ESP in IDPA with one, so now I want one even more. I'd like to see pictures and hear the pro's and con's of running one of these in IDPA.

Thanks guys and gals

[Duane Thomas]

The Browning Hi-Power is a great gun. Its biggest problems in IDPA are that (1) yanking the magazine disconector is illegal, and leaving it intact can interfere with mag drop during a reload; (2) the mag well opening is very squared-off, and the top of the magazine very blocky as well. Even with a mag well bevel applied, the Hi-Power is not the easiest gun in the world to reload fast.

[Joe4d]

Find some mouse trap spring magazines, Some Hipower magazines have a spring on the back, when you hot the release the mags sail out, I shot a Hipower for a couple years both a 40 and a 9mm, I had a C&S mag funnel installed on my 40 and shot it in USPSA a few times in Limited 10. The problem I had was the long trigger reset. If you have a Pre MKIII without the firing pin block you can come up with a pretty good triiger without much takeup or reset. With the firing pin block there isnt a hole lot you can do about the reset.

[Duane Thomas]

I've never really cared for the mouse trap magazines. If you wear the two mags anywhere close to each other on the belt, the spring coming out the rear of the front mag can hook on the baseplate sticking out the front of the rearmost mag on the "draw". Also I just always found they got in the way of me wrapping my hand around the mag, also during the draw.

I've never really had any experience with the C&S funnel though it looks very interesting to me. If I was shooting a Hi-Power in competition, or even carrying one for self-defense, I'd definitely want some way to make the gun easier to reload.

In my experience how long is the reset, and whether or not the reset point and the "link" re-uptake point are in the same place, on a Hi-Power varies from gun to gun. It's definitely a "some do, some don't" situation.

Why would the firing pin block have any effect on trigger reset? It's an elegantly simple system, just an extension off the rear of the sear lever that blocks a flange on the firing pin until cammed down out of the way. I could stand to be corrected on this, but really I can't see how it would have any effect on reset at all.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've been shooting a Hi-Power for 43 years and there is a lot to like. Now that I've shot some other guns (that were invented long after 1935) I see that there are some serious disadvantages to the Hi-Power vs the new guns:

1. Trigger pull is not very good, and leaving the mag safety on makes it very difficult to improve

2. The gun is "soft" - the metal is softer than new guns, you don't have enough metal on the grip to checker it

3. The hammer bites unless you have it bobbed

4. The new Hi-Power I bought two years ago was not very accurate and the trigger was worse than bad

5. Tough to reload quickly (you wouldn't think it would be with the double stack mags, but front to back is a problem, not the width).

6. If you have large hands, the grip is small which leads to more twisting in your hand when it fires (if you hold the HP and the 1911, the HP feels GREAT - until you fire them both - then the 1911 feels much better

7. It's more money than an Xd or S&W or Glock

8. More parts available/gunsmiths to work on the newer models

If I had it to do all over again, I'd look closer into one of the newer firearms, like the Xd or S&W.

But, it's all personal.

[Duane Thomas]

3. The hammer bites unless you have it bobbed

I guess it's a matter of differently shaped hands, but for me bobbing the hammer makes no difference because it's not the long hammer spur that bites me, but rather the flesh of the web of my hand, coming up and over the Hi-Power's short grip tang, gets crushed between the frame and the base of the hammer. Going to, or buying a gun already fitted with, the Commander-type rowel hammer makes no difference because, again, it's not the hammer spur that gets me. I once had to put a thousand rounds in a single day through a Hi-Power at a class. This was not a happy experience for me. By the end of the day I had a hole half the size of a dime in the web of my right hand; to this day I can still see the scar.

I've seen two solutions to this problem. Cylinder & Slide welded up and shaped a beavertail on one of my guns. This was elegant and beautiful, it just made the gun point way low for me.

A far simpler solution, and the one I prefer, is what Novak's did to another Hi-Power for me which was simply to undercut the bottom of the hammer so the portion of metal that once crushed my flesh can't do that because it's simply no longer there.

[GmanCdp]

if you ever felt a Cylinder and Slide HP or a Novak HP,i think you would might change your mind..or power custom....or Robar..

http://www.powercustom.com/BrowingHP/parts_BHP.htm

http://www.novaksights.com/novak_custom_browning.htm

http://www.robarguns.com/browning.htm

[jar]

I shot a Hi-Power in ESP for a while. I borrowed an M&P to shoot the postal in SSP, and blew away my HP scores. I'm not sure why, but I shoot the M&P much better. I've got a M&P on the way, and after that the BHP will probably just sit in the safe. I second the issues mentioned above with the long and mushy reset and the tight magazine well. The Hi-Power does feel great in my hand, but that doesn't translate to shooting it that well for some reason.

[Hi-Power Jack]

3. The hammer bites unless you have it bobbed

I guess it's a matter of differently shaped hands, but for me bobbing the hammer makes no difference

A far simpler solution, and the one I prefer, is what Novak's did to another Hi-Power for me which was simply to undercut the bottom of the hammer so the portion of metal that once crushed my flesh can't do that because it's simply no longer there.

Guess I mispoke - by "bobbing the hammer" I meant "undercutting the bottom of the hammer".

Guess we agree. I fired 1,000 rounds one day at a class with my brand new HP, and my flesh

was cut pretty badly - even though I put a band aid on after it started bleeding - continued to

bite me right through the band aid:(( But, you're right - once the hammer is reshaped, or

undercut, I haven't had the problem since.

[Hi-Power Jack]

if you ever felt a Cylinder and Slide HP or a Novak HP,i think you would might change your mind..or power custom....or Robar..

http://www.powercustom.com/BrowingHP/parts_BHP.htm

http://www.novaksights.com/novak_custom_browning.htm

http://www.robarguns.com/browning.htm

I just had my HP redone by EGW of Pennsylvania, and it now feels great -

adjustable sights, bomar barrel, accuracy job, beavertail & magwell.

But that cost an awful lot of money, and still has the other problems

or disadvantages that I mentioned.

If I were to start over, I love my HP, but I'd spend the money on a more

modern design to start with. Just my personal opinion.

[Jadeslade]

My first pistol shooting was done with a Hi-Power. One hand only. It does not lend itself to the two handed grip. Great gun nonetheless. Maybe just shoot one handed in matches.

[JimmyZip]

Started last year with HiPowers. Didn't have the reload difficulties stated here. Practice took care of that, and C&S did the rest. Bomar sights, and good ammo, no problems with accuracy.

But... I have a scar on my right hand from the hammer bite. It will get you. There are non-bite hammers out there, but I seem to get the web over the beaver-tail or whatever you call it, on the draw consistently. One handed shooter? I don't know about that as i have small hands for my size and this was the pistol I learned to shoot autos with.

It is the best pointing shooter in my book. I never had trouble after practicing groups with it hitting the A zone at 35-40 yds. On close in stuff it was fast and accurated. The trigger is heavy, but prepping is your friend.

If you decide to good luck. But I eventually left that platform for the CZ. I think they took the best of the HP and the 1911 and made the CZ.

JZ

[Jadeslade]

Yeah-that's why I shoot them one handed-the hammer bite. I would get my brother and his friends to bring a box of ammo to shoot with. My brother would shoot first, put two hands on and be ok-except he wasn't a great shooter. Then his friends would try and they would invariable get cut on the web, blood would be dripping down, and I would get to use their ammo. I never put a second hand on the gun-that's the way my dad taught us. My brother wasn't supposed to, but he was ten years older and would choke me if I told, so I got free ammo a half dozen times that summer. It has been and still is a great sidearm. Just not great for IPSC or IDPA. I think it could be good for IDPA.

[Duane Thomas]

William, I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what you're saying here. Why on Earth would anyone need to fire a Hi-Power one-hand only, and how would that avoid hammer bite? How could putting a second hand on the gun cause hammer bite? All I can think is that you're talking about the old revolver technique of putting the support hand thumb over the top of the other hand, behind the master hand thumb, so that the auto pistol's hammer and/or slide clips it. That's the only way I can think of that a person could damage their support hand firing a Hi-Power. What we've been talking about here is the hammer chewing up the master hand, not the support hand, and that's going to happen with one or two hands on the gun.

[Jadeslade]

Yup that's the way they did it. I just draw it and shoot it. I don't try to grab it up high or anything. The only time I saw that pinch is when guys would put two hands on it. I never got cut, neither did my dad-maybe hand shape or something has something to do with it. Man, you must have a fantastic gun collection-we should shoot sometime and I'll bring the ammo.

[Joe4d]

The trigger lever is spring loaded and has a longer arc of travel in the firing pin block model, the pre MKIII trigger lever doesnt, So the trigger resets sooner on the older design, One thing about a Hipower is I allways get a "Wow" is that a Hipower ? Something I havent heard about a Glunk. You could always find a WA140 marked frame, they didnt come with Mag disconnects, the Nazi's considered them a waste of time and resources.

[Jadeslade]

Yes-Joe4d has the good info. My first Hi Power was a 1937 vintage that was our only handgun when I was kid. It was a great shooting gun. It was stolen and is probably circling around Boston or got melted down in confiscated guns. A few years ago I bought a new one in.40 and it was an ok gun. I don't know enough to tweak that kind of trigger myself and local gunsmiths really had no idea, so I traded it in on something else. The mag disconnect is an issue. The ergonomics of the Hi-Power are good for me, I can see it being a real good gun in the right hands for IDPA.

[Duane Thomas]

In North America the Hi-Power is a connoisseur's gun. It's not the hugely popular piece it is in other free world countries that allow their citizenry to own handguns in military calibers. I have noted in the past that if I go to a large training class with, let us say, 40 shooters there, by FAR the most popular gun choice will be Glock, in second place will be 1911, a few SIGs, a few HKs, a few Smith autos, maybe a Beretta 92, maybe a couple of hardy souls firing revolvers....and one guy with a Browning Hi-Power.

Funny thing I've noticed though: if at the end of the class you start having the students compete with each other, eliminations fashion, until you get down to that hard core of the three or four best shooters in the class, the guy with the Hi-Power will always be one of them. Bill Laughridge likes to say, "When you're tried everything else, looking for the best, what you wind up with is the Browning Hi-Power." I'm not sure I totally buy into that....but it makes a great quote!

[wooddog]

I love my Hi-power, but as everyone here has noted it has some drawbacks.

I had Jim Garthwaite (spelling?) do mine. He is one of the best and I recommend him highly!

My thinking is to shoot what you like and enjoy the game.

[RickB]

I've shot mine in both ESP and USPSA Limited (to justify spending on 17-round mags). I love the slim lines, which are in total contrast to most "modern" guns. I lucked into a nice trigger. It may go 5+ pounds, but it's very crisp. Reloads are a pain, coming and going. I have had some success polishing the front of the mag tubes, and applying a dry lube to both the mag and the disconnector plunger, but still give the gun a good shake, as if trying to get the last bit of salad dressing out of the bottle, to help the mag out on a reload.

[A62335]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'll try one out. Anyone got any eye candy?

[Duane Thomas]

Early Glocks, I'm talking cobblestone grip, had very tight mag wells; combine that with swelled-up non-drop free mags, there was a very specific downward "pop" that you had to synchronize with pressing the mag button during a speedload, in order to get mags to come out of the gun, if they had more than about four or five rounds in them. Man, back in the day I had that "pop" down to an artform. Actually, just a few weeks ago someone I hadn't seen in about 12 years said to me, "Hey, you remember when you used to have to snap your Glock down to reload it?" I had to laugh, I said, "Haven't thought about that in years, but yeah, I remember it."

[Joe4d]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'll try one out. Anyone got any eye candy?

Here ya go,

[Steve Koski]

Spotting a Hi-Power at an IDPA match is a "few and far between" event here in Utah. I recall more Hi-Points, to be honest. Not sure what that says about Utah...

[A62335]

Found a custom HP at a local shop, it will be mine on Monday!