Rifle primers for pistol loads?

[Lomshek]

The shortages have me wanting to simplify my reloading inventory and keep a single small and large primer on hand. Rather than re-inventing the wheel I'm looking for experienced opinions. This is purely for range/match ammo NOT self defense.

What issues (if any) will I run into if I use small rifle primers (or large) for handgun cartridges? Ideally I'd like to use one of the various "military" primers with a harder cup to eliminate the chance of slamfires in my AR (real or imagined problem that it may be). From my research so far both CCI & Wolf's military versions are magnum primers, does the hotter primer make this a no go?

I'm more interested in general observations pertaining to accuracy, pressure and leading than specific load info. If this looks promising I'll work up loads slowly to see what I can get.

For those who want specific info I'm currently using two 9mm loads with 124 gr bullets & HS-6. A low recoil 1000 fps +- (9 minor) practice round and a very hot 1300 fps+ load (9 major) that duplicates my factory social ammo (Ranger 127gr +p+). The bullet varies with what's available; I've used both Precision coated and Berry's plated bullets with decent results, I may use hard cast lead in the future if availability dictates (probably not on the hotter load). All my handguns have factory hammer/striker springs to eliminate light strikes.

I will eventually expand my reloading to include larger handgun calibers so am looking for input on large and small primer issues.

Thanks!

[dajarrel]

Using Winchester primers, I have gone from using small pistol primers to small rifle primers and back and never made an adjustement in my powder measure. I typically run 170 or so pf and have never noticed any fps change to speak of.

On Federal primers I have swapped from large pistol to large match and large magnum and back and forth also without any noticable change in pf.

I have heard that pistol to rifle primers will change fps by some small margin, but I have not seen it.

fwiw

dj

[Intel6]

Small rifle and pistol primers have the same cup length and can be interchanged between pistol & rifle. Large rifle and large pistol primers do not have the same cup length and should not be interchanged.

Not saying you can't do it, just letting you know that LR & LP primers are not the same like SR & SP.

Neal in AZ

[larry cazes]

I would not be concerned substituting rifle for pistol primers for major PF loads. At minor PF, I would keep a careful watch for ANY indication that gas is leaking from around the primer. The harder cup might not seal completely at low pressure. In an extreme case, you could damage a breachface this way.

[Rob Boudrie]

Small rifle in a pistol: Gun not going off due to increased cup thickness

Small pistol in 38 Super: Primer flow (the rifle folks call it primer blanking)

Small pistol in a rifle: Not generally a good idea

I use only small rifle primers in my 40, and have used Winchester and Federal with success. I recently got a batch of Wolf Small Rifle (regular, not magnum or the special Wolf 223 primer) and initial testing with the first few hundred rounds is showing promising results in both super and 40.

[revchuck]

Small rifle in a pistol: Gun not going off due to increased cup thickness

Real-life examples: I made up some 9x19 loads with SR primers, both Federal and Winchester, for guns (Beretta and CZ) that were box stock, and they worked 100%. Then I had "carry" trigger jobs done on them, and the reliability went to about 95% with these loads, while remaining 100% with both my handloads and factory ammo using SP primers.

I understand that 1911s are more forgiving in this circumstance, due to the weight of the firing pin. My two 1911s are .45 ACP, so I don't have direct experience with those calibers using small pistol primers in 1911s.

[L9X25]

During the last primer scare (a few years back) I ran across a box of WLR primers and figured they would interchange just like small pistol and small rifle ... WRONG!

As mentioned a few posts earlier, the cup dimension is different and you end up with high primers even after they are fully seated. My guns would not function with them and I still have 900 waiting for when I start to reload .308.

[Xfactor]

Small rifle in a pistol: Gun not going off due to increased cup thickness

Small pistol in 38 Super: Primer flow (the rifle folks call it primer blanking)

Small pistol in a rifle: Not generally a good idea

I use only small rifle primers in my 40, and have used Winchester and Federal with success. I recently got a batch of Wolf Small Rifle (regular, not magnum or the special Wolf 223 primer) and initial testing with the first few hundred rounds is showing promising results in both super and 40.

This has been my experience as well...

As I understand it, as you go from small pistol, to small pistol magnum, to small rifle primers, the ignition gets incrementally bigger/hotter. So for a small pistol cartridge with minimal powder (e.g. 9mm minor), SP or SP-Mag is best; with an intermediate pistol cartridge (e.g. 40 major) all 3 work fine; with a higher pressure pistol cartridge with lots of powder (e.g. 9mm major, 38 super) then SP-Mag or SR is best;... both in terms of a reliable powder burn, and minimizing primer back-flow, etc. (Rifle cartridges definitely need rifle primers... )

Similarly, as you go from small pistol, to small pistol magnum, to small rifle primers, the cups get incrementally harder... so striker-fired guns (especially with trigger jobs) work better with softer cups, but most 1911s with adequate main springs will reliably ignite a harder cup.

It's also worth noting that different manufacturers are known for differing cup hardnesses... my research has indicated that Federal are the softest, CCI are among the hardest, and Winchester are in the middle. (Not sure about Remington, Wolf, etc.)

To keep it simple, I make sense of the cup hardnesses of the various small primers like this:

Softest:

Fed SP (Revolver shooters swear by them)

Medium-Soft:

Fed SP-Mag

Win SP

Medium:

Fed SR

Win SP-Mag

CCI SP

Medium-Hard:

Win SR

CCI-SP-Mag

Hardest:

CCI SR

Edited September 10, 2009 by Xfactor

[uscbigdawg]

Use a real mainspring and it'll light off anything. Light mainspring's are a poor man's fix for the "ultimate" trigger job.

I've used SR and SP primers between 40's, 38's and 9's for years and have ZERO issues...especially on my Viper's that have 1-3/4# trigger jobs.

Larry's got the most complete concern in that depending on the brand of primer, there could be some gas leaking around the primer which will quickly torch your breech face (ask me how I know).

Haven't played with the load of Wolf's that I recently got in, but find it weird to have a "special" primer for 223 loads. Oh well...the Wolf SR primers I have are intended for 223 and pistol loads anyways. They'll work in one of them.

Rich

[PoconoJohn]

I'm new to the reloading arena, but I'll add my .02...I have a Dillon Square Deal "B" setup for .38 Super. The only primers I have at this time are CCI SR and they won't seat into my Starline brass. It almost looks like they're too small, but I can't get them to go into the brass by hand either.

Has anyone ever had this problem?

Thanks,

John

[kamikaze1a]

In my experience, I've never had problems going from WSP to WSR. Same velocity and no visual signs that the pressure increased. The only issue might be the SR is said to have a thicker cup so needs a good strike. Some of our members ONLY buy SR and use them in handguns and longguns. Now my experience has only been with Win so could not say if this is the case for all brands. I have even temporarily used mag primers in place of standard but they were used on loads below "Max" and found no issues...

LR and LP, as posted previously, is not interchangeable...dimensionally different.

[Lomshek]

Tons of great info here as always!

Based on this I'll test some out for function and load development and if they fire 100% I'll consolidate my inventory to a single small primer for everything.

It just seems to make sense to minimize the different types of primers on hand so stocking up becomes a lot easier.

Thanks!

[kamikaze1a]

Tons of great info here as always!

Based on this I'll test some out for function and load development and if they fire 100% I'll consolidate my inventory to a single small primer for everything.

It just seems to make sense to minimize the different types of primers on hand so stocking up becomes a lot easier.

Thanks!

I think it was mentioned in one of the posts but just to be sure, DO NOT use small pistol primers with rifle loads.

[Lomshek]

I think it was mentioned in one of the posts but just to be sure, DO NOT use small pistol primers with rifle loads.

10-4! I caught it but always good to be safe.

[z40acp]

Do you think there would be a problem with CCI SR in 40 S&W USPSA major loads shot through a 2011 with a 17# main spring? Does anyone currently use CCI SR and a 17# main spring?

[kamikaze1a]

Do you think there would be a problem with CCI SR in 40 S&W USPSA major loads shot through a 2011 with a 17# main spring? Does anyone currently use CCI SR and a 17# main spring?

Don't see a problem with that setup provided your hammer spring gives a good hit. As was discussed, rifle primers have thicker cups and CCI is said to be made from stiffer cups... Don't know for sure because I haven't used CCI primers since...well, a long time ago.

As for the main spring, I don't think the main spring weight would be an issue with primer choice...unless I am missing something? I would think your load selection would be a bigger factor in spring choice.

[SA Friday]

Do you think there would be a problem with CCI SR in 40 S&W USPSA major loads shot through a 2011 with a 17# main spring? Does anyone currently use CCI SR and a 17# main spring?

There are a lot of variables and testing is ultimately the only way to determine if it will or won't. That being said, Got a buddy popping these off in his STI open guns with a 17lb mainspring, hammerless hammer, and just scary light trigger job.

[kgunz11]

My customers have responded very favorably to using Wolf Small Rifle primers in both .223 and handguns.

[ben b.]

I recently loaded 600 Wolf SR into 9mm Minor loads by mistake. Oops.

My lightened striker pistols were not popping the fire with the rifle primers, sometimes as much as 50% failures. Went back to factory springs and got about 2%-5% failures. Went back to SP primers and everything worked again.

[Xfactor]

Do you think there would be a problem with CCI SR in 40 S&W USPSA major loads shot through a 2011 with a 17# main spring? Does anyone currently use CCI SR and a 17# main spring?

If you already have them on hand, then it's worth a try... you may get a few light strikes per hundred rounds - but maybe not. There's only one way to find out for sure for your particular gun!

A buddy of mine runs a 17# main spring in his 2011 Open gun... he said he has had an occasional light strike even with Win SR primers (which are a bit softer than CCI).