Legality of putting a long slide on a large frame in Limited

[BlueOvalBruin]

Would a person be allowed to put an aftermarket long slide (5.35" or maybe longer) on a large frame glock limited gun in USPSA? I read in the rules that limited guns have to have replacement barrels with the same length as the factory standard. I know the small frame versions would be (G24, G35 and G34) legal since they're factory made. As far as I know though glock does not make a longslide large frame gun. Could I take a G20 or G21 frame and slap on a lone wolf long slide with a .40 S&W barrel? Thanks.

[Duane Thomas]

I read in the rules that limited guns have to have replacement barrels with the same length as the factory standard.

Guess you just answered your own question, huh?

[bofe954]

The replacement barrel rule seems to conflict with the special condition:

"Any complete handgun or components with a minimum production of 500 units by a factory and available to the general public"

I could take my 5" STI Eagle and have a 6 inch Caspian slide and 6" barrel fitted to it, but I can't put a Lone wolf 6 inch slide on a G20?

I know there is some controversy around 6 inch sight trackers right now, and Lone Wolf may have to show USPSA that 500 slides have been produced, and available.

I wouldn't say the answer is a clear cut "no" though. Would it be worth posting it on the USPSA forum or emailing Amidon?

[Nik Habicht]

I'd e-mail Amidon. I asked years ago about the viability of using Bar-Sto's 6" .45 upper for the G-21 and was told it wouldn't be legal because Glock never built one in that configuration. Lone Wolf might be cranking out enough units, that it could fall under components, especially if someone were to carefully craft the argument that the Lone Wolf uppers are an evolution of what's available for Glocks in much the same way as the Caspian and Para and STI Hi-cap frame kits were once an evolution of the 1911....

[BlueOvalBruin]

I suppose then the question might be, would Lone Wolf have to have made a total of 500+ large frame slides in all configurations/barrel lengths or would it have to be 500+ for each frame type AND barrel length? If they can show they’ve covered the 500+ quantity mark and the G20, G20SF, G21, and G21SF are on the production list then I should be good to go. I would still need to check with the appropriate people of course, but it would be good to get my ducks in a row before I present the question to John Amidon.

[Flexmoney]

Yes...they would have to make 500.

I don't think LW is anywhere near the 500 mark?

I think they would have to make 500 of each configuration of slide for each to be legal (not just total "long-slides"). I'd have to re-read the rules on that to see if anything has changed though.

Let me know if you get some info that they are at 500. I'll help make the case.

[BlueOvalBruin]

Do you think Lone Wolf would have to send in any paperwork to show they’ve exceeded the 500 minimum for each configuration?

[Flexmoney]

Perhaps.

[Harmon]

i bet he would.

a 6 in 40 cal G20SF would be the cat's ass

Harmon

[Aldrin]

Anyone heard anything else on this?

[G-ManBart]

Do you think Lone Wolf would have to send in any paperwork to show they’ve exceeded the 500 minimum for each configuration?

I'm pretty sure they would, but I recall that it was a simple certification letter. In other words, a letter saying "yes, we've made more than 500 of ZYZ configuration" or something along those lines.

Wouldn't you still need to get an Area director to propose the matter before the board? R,

[B_Seehawer]

Why not just shoot a G24?

ganderman

[Nik Habicht]

Wouldn't you still need to get an Area director to propose the matter before the board? R,

The list is controlled by DNROI --- I'm pretty sure the Board doesn't vote on that. If you're thinking of the barrel ruling, that was issued as an official interpretation, yeah, the board is involved in that process. To the best of my knowledge that involvement can be as little as being briefed on the intended interpretation --- and not raising any objections to it....

[Nik Habicht]

Why not just shoot a G24?

ganderman

Because a 24 isn't a 6" 20....

I'd love to see this go through, because a 6" G-21 is cool!

[G-ManBart]

Wouldn't you still need to get an Area director to propose the matter before the board? R,

The list is controlled by DNROI --- I'm pretty sure the Board doesn't vote on that. If you're thinking of the barrel ruling, that was issued as an official interpretation, yeah, the board is involved in that process. To the best of my knowledge that involvement can be as little as being briefed on the intended interpretation --- and not raising any objections to it....

I was actually thinking of Mike Calloway's discussion with John A. at last year's Nationals about how to get a 6" Sight Tracker style gun legal for Limited based upon 500+ barrels of that type having been manufactured. I thought I recall John saying Mike would need to have it put before the Board, but my memory isn't what it used to be ;-)

[Nik Habicht]

Wouldn't you still need to get an Area director to propose the matter before the board? R,

The list is controlled by DNROI --- I'm pretty sure the Board doesn't vote on that. If you're thinking of the barrel ruling, that was issued as an official interpretation, yeah, the board is involved in that process. To the best of my knowledge that involvement can be as little as being briefed on the intended interpretation --- and not raising any objections to it....

I was actually thinking of Mike Calloway's discussion with John A. at last year's Nationals about how to get a 6" Sight Tracker style gun legal for Limited based upon 500+ barrels of that type having been manufactured. I thought I recall John saying Mike would need to have it put before the Board, but my memory isn't what it used to be ;-)

I wonder if Amidon turned him down, and was informing him of the appeals process?

[rjkelso]

Anyone heard anything else on this?

I have emailed LW a couple of times trying to get a production number for the long slides but have received no reply. However they don't know me from Adam. Is there anyone out there who has a better relationship with whom they might want to reply?

I'd love to get an Idea where this is headed.

R

[P.E. Kelley]

Anyone heard anything else on this?

I have emailed LW a couple of times trying to get a production number for the long slides but have received no reply. However they don't know me from Adam. Is there anyone out there who has a better relationship with whom they might want to reply?

I'd love to get an Idea where this is headed.

R

I do, and I will call them tomorrow.

Patrick

[rjkelso]

Anyone heard anything else on this?

I have emailed LW a couple of times trying to get a production number for the long slides but have received no reply. However they don't know me from Adam. Is there anyone out there who has a better relationship with whom they might want to reply?

I'd love to get an Idea where this is headed.

R

I do, and I will call them tomorrow.

Patrick

Thank You Patrick

[G-ManBart]

Wouldn't you still need to get an Area director to propose the matter before the board? R,

The list is controlled by DNROI --- I'm pretty sure the Board doesn't vote on that. If you're thinking of the barrel ruling, that was issued as an official interpretation, yeah, the board is involved in that process. To the best of my knowledge that involvement can be as little as being briefed on the intended interpretation --- and not raising any objections to it....

I was actually thinking of Mike Calloway's discussion with John A. at last year's Nationals about how to get a 6" Sight Tracker style gun legal for Limited based upon 500+ barrels of that type having been manufactured. I thought I recall John saying Mike would need to have it put before the Board, but my memory isn't what it used to be ;-)

I wonder if Amidon turned him down, and was informing him of the appeals process?

I don't recall exactly, but I don't think Mike was trying to get a decision on the spot. It was more of a general discussion on how to go about getting it approved. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Personally, I don't think a 6" sight tracker is any advantage over a standard 6" gun, but the rules are the rules so the process should be followed regardless. R,

[rjkelso]

I have indeed received a reply from LW. From Anna, assistant to JR. She informs me that they have sold around 500 of the 6" barrels already and will reach that mark with the 6" slides by the 1st of the year. This is encouraging right?

I am still putting together my 4.6" G20 limited set-up. I probably won't shoot it in earnest until next year. I wonder how long this process of getting a new configuration approved would take. And how to begin.

Rick

[triplesinglestack]

very interesting....Rick, any updates as of yet?

[wide45]

Interesting.

The Para frame was not legal for limited, until Para had complete guns available for the requisite time period. The Caspian wide body was not legal for limited until Craig claimed he had made 500 complete guns etc. The time element has been dropped from the newest rules, but the "or components" was always there.

The rule has always been meant to mean that once a complete gun model was made, and met the requirements for the division, it could be replicated from components. It did not mean that you could build a never produced model from parts, regardless of the number of parts available.

Perhaps that will change.

[Joe4d]

Interesting.

The Para frame was not legal for limited, until Para had complete guns available for the requisite time period. The Caspian wide body was not legal for limited until Craig claimed he had made 500 complete guns etc. The time element has been dropped from the newest rules, but the "or components" was always there.

The rule has always been meant to mean that once a complete gun model was made, and met the requirements for the division, it could be replicated from components. It did not mean that you could build a never produced model from parts, regardless of the number of parts available.

Perhaps that will change.

By that interpretation, I cant use Bomar sights because Bomar never made 500 complete guns with Bomar sights on them? when is a part just a part and when is it a new model. The ATF defines gun as the frame, pretty much everything else is just a part.

The way the rule has been applied seems to mean the intent is to prohibit prototypes or prevent from showing up with using something another shooter cant get. The thresh hold is 500 , If 500 have been made most likely anyone that really wants to try it can get one.

[Flexmoney]

CCF was able to get their (mere) frames "approved".

Over on GlockTalk, in the "10 ring" forum, there is a thread on the LW long slides for the G20. JR from LW speaks like they might have (or be close) to the 500 unit requirement. I was attempting to play match maker between him and USPSA, but tired of it.