LubriPLATE No. 105

[Gunsby_Blazen]

LubriPLATE No. 105

I recently got a big ole can of LubriPLATE No.105 engine assembly lubricant. i was going to get myself a can of 130-a for use on my rifle but I got this here can for free and was wondering if it would work. I know there are certain types of grease to avoid that will cause stress cracks to from.

Has anyone used 105? What’s your opinion of this stuff? And, do you think it would be good to use?

On a non tuned 1911… about 80 years old…

On a tuned up mini-14…. Yes yes yes… a mini….

On a JP v-tac rifle that I am building…

… Kalashnikov

… various .22s

…revolvers and other automatic handguns….

Sorry if this question has been asked before, I did some searches but didn’t find much on it. I am still kind of wet behind the ears.

Thanks for your input…

I just want to know if this stuff is suitable as a gun grease…

I dont want to use anything that will cause damage to them

edited to fix product name from the erroneous "Lubricoat" to the correct "Lubriplate"

Edited June 18, 2009 by Gunsby_Blazen

[C.A. Wason]

heard of this stuff called "Slide Glide"....bought some.....really works good on my 1911's........did I say it really works good?? Yup, it does. Don't know about that 105 stuff. Seeing as it is engine assembly lubricant it might be really good for that though. Yup, slide glide is what I'm thinkin.

Edited June 17, 2009 by C.A. Wason

[Gunsby_Blazen]

well i was going to get some slide glide...

but i have a great big can, i mean big!, of this stuff here... and it apperas to be kissing cousins to the stuff made for the Garand requested by the US army... the Lubriplate 130-A...

now it appears to be a close substance... i am not sure... thats why i am asking

thanks for your advice though...

both of the lubriplate greases are calcium base...

[Flexmoney]

Try it out. Let us know. If it's the stuff that is designed to go on engine valves and cam surfaces...it ought to do.

Then again. I have lots of gun lubes around. None of them cost much and most last a good while. Slide Glide is my first choice for a gun grease.

[Flexmoney]

Hmmm....from their website, looks like it's designed to work "up to 150 degrees". That may be a bit light?

[Edit to add...]

It looks like the 130-A is designed up to 170 degrees. I'm not sure, would that be better suited as a storage grease?

[C.A. Wason]

Well, I googled that 105 stuff and didn't find anything. Maybe I searched it wrong. I did a search on Calcium based lubricants and found some info. But not being a chemist it didn't do me any good. If I understood what I read, the calcium base is a carrier of sorts for the lubricating material, and makes the slippery part stick more. It also enhances the load capacity of the lubricant, and seems to be more water resistant than a non calcium based lube. Course my interpetation of what I read could be completely wrong too!!

Load capacity doesn't seem to be an issue reference firearms lube. I suppose the higher water resistant quality of the calcium based lube could be helpful if one was in that kind of wet invironment.....jungle.....Navy Seal....hopefully some will chime in with a "good" answer. Automotive application of it was centered on front wheel drive drive trains.

CW

Edited June 17, 2009 by C.A. Wason

[Gunsby_Blazen]

thanks fellas

[C.A. Wason]

Not to belabor the point, but,

just a little more information on calcium based grease:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/articl...p?articleid=909

This was the easiest for me to understand....which means it was pretty basic.

Edited June 17, 2009 by C.A. Wason

[Xfactor]

Jim Anglin (the gunsmith that built my 2011) swears by Lubriplate. He also mixes it with Mobil 1 for lighter weight applications... Jim says that he's been using it for decades and hasn't found anything that he likes better yet.

[Flexmoney]

Well, I googled that 105 stuff and didn't find anything. Maybe I searched it wrong.

Is it lubriplate, instead of lubricoat?

http://www.lubriplate.com/

[Rolex]

Lubriplate 105- I have been using it on my Jim Anglin

custom .9mm open blaster for a year. I had gotten one

of my shooters from him after some work and called and

asked what the milkey white stuff was- he said lubriplate-

use it all the time on my guns! Jim built the .9mm and thats

what it had on it when I got it. So I use it also- just started

to shoot my new limited .40S&W and use it on that also. So

far the heat has little to no affect on it RE: thinning out to

much. Temp. has been around 100 here in Florida and, well

all I can say is I like it. Have also used Slide Guide light!

[Gunsby_Blazen]

YES LubriPLATE and not LubriCOAT..

my mistake... sorry about that.

thanks for correcting me...

and thanks Rolex, i came across someone on another thread that said that he uses it as well...

i just wanted to make sure it was safe.

i was thinking about trying out some of that slide glide stuff, seems to be all the rage around here...

Thanks again!

[chirpy]

I've been using it for years on both semi's and revos and like it a lot. Just bought some Slide Glide and am giving it a try.

Richard

[John Dunn]

There is a lube point on a Bridgeport mill that takes Lubriplate 105, I might have to give it a try. But I have to wait until I run out of Slide Glide, and with several tubs of various viscosities, the Slide Glide is probably close to a lifetime supply. A bucket of lube would last me forever, unless the stuffs goes bad over time.

[THM7]

I like Slide Guide...looks kinda like the red high temp bearing grease you get in the tubes.

Not sure if it is similar...I have also used Lubriplate (I mess with airplanes also) it is OK but it does seem to make more of a mess than the Slide guide and it is not as sticky.

[C.A. Wason]

Upon further seaching I found some info on the CMP website. The thread was discussing the use of lubricant on M1 rifles. The concensus there was Lubriplate 130 AA was the choice of many. While still a calcium type lubricant, it had some specifications that were different from the 105 type, mostly in its pressure rating, and its operating temps.

Both the 130 and 105 have significant ability regarding not being washed away by water and therefore are very good at preventing corrosion . I do not know if either of them has the characteristic of helping to float away debris, powder or lead fouling though while maintaining its lubricity. With the amount you have as Flex suggested use it and see how it does........if it was free to you so much the better.

[benos]

We back in the day (way before Slide-Glide), as a mechanic, I remember using Lubriplate when I was building engines. But I can't remember, is it stringy?

Beside the (very expensive, according to my guy who makes the Glide) extreme pressure compound, a great quality of the Glide is its stringy factor. Which was key in its development.

I really like grease over oil. But with every grease I tried - the pistol would feel real good and slick after cleaning and greasing it up; but I'd shoot 100 rounds, then it felt like all the grease was gone.

That factor right there was the inspiration for the Glide. I think I say somewhere on my Slide-Glide page... I'd often shoot over 5,000 rounds before wiping it off are re-applying it. That's true.

be

[big_kahuna]

The stringiness factor of BE's Glide is from a "tackifying" agent... Tribologists (lubrication engineers) add "tackifiers" to add stringy/sticky properties, to get grease to really stay in place and avoid getting squished out. I've used 130A and 105 and IIRC they do not have a tackifier.

Some background

I asked the Tribologist at work about this stuff a couple years ago. Very interesting stuff. I was surprised to find out that I did not understand the mechanics of how a lubricant oil or grease works, so he began teaching me. He has been giving me some assistance with some research I'm working on. USCBigdawg, if you are reading this remember you are sworn to secrecy

Oil lubricates two ways: by hydrodanamic cushioning between contact surfaces (think of your skin sliding over the painted fiberglass surface of a water slide, or water skiing) and by "barrier" additives (BA) in the carrier liquid (think of millions of microscopic ball bearings suspended in the oil). Barrier additives help because the carrier oil alone can be displaced under pressure... without BA you have hard contact between the surfaces. Rem oil is carrier only, with no significant barrier additives (which is why it sucks). CLP is a mineral oil carrier plus powdered PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene AKA "Teflon"). BAs are considered Anti-Wear (AW), and some BAs are rated for extreme pressure (EP). Slide Glide appears to have EP/AW barrier additives.

Grease is simply thickened oil. The thickening additive can be lithium, metalloid soap, urea (yep the stuff in your urine), or a host of other things. The thickeners have different properties in regard to temperature and load stability. Moreover some thickeners (like lithium) can separate from the oil under certain conditions... not good. Lithium is common because it is cheap. Thickeners that have wider temperature and pressure stability bands (e.g. metalloid soaps) are harder to get/make and cost more.

Oil's main advantage is that it "penetrates" or moves into nearby areas under osmotic action and seeks to uniformly coat the area it touches. The drawback is that oil can eventually siphon itself away from the area you want it on as it keeps spreading and penetrating. For this reason, oil must be more frequently reapplied than grease. And, some oils don't like extremely high temperatures (they boil or evaporate off).

The chief advantage of grease is that it "stays" in place better than oil, and you need not reapply it as often as oil. This advantage is negated if the grease gets pushed out of the contact areas and into the gun's gaps and tolerance spaces. This is the weakness of lithium grease that Brian noticed and corrected with his Slide Glide. Also, many greases do not like extremely low temperatures (even SG has some trouble below 45 degrees).

[Ross Carter]

Way way back in the day we used 3 in one oil on our guns I guess it worked ok but back then our guns tended to be a bit looser and less dependable than now. lol Thankfully we have a lot better stuff now like Brians product.

I wouldn't use lubriplate on a good gun even if it is free. Had a customer buy a very nice high end over and under shotgun. It was very tight to open because there is a large bearing surface between the forearm iron and the receiver. You almost had to break it across your knee. It should have never been built that tight and I offered to adjust it for him as I've done a lot of them of that brand. But instead the guy listened to an old timer at the club who loaned him a can of lubriplate and advised him to lube it up with that and break it in by shooting it. Next time I see the gun the bearing surfaces are very badly gaulded and it is practically locked up. The lubriplate didn't protect it. Took a lot of work to get it useable and it will always be scared up, expensive lesson and he nearly completely ruined it.

[Flexmoney]

Good wisdom. Thanks for sharing.

[Xfactor]

Ceasar, great write-up on oil and grease... Sounds like I should go back to using my Slide Glide in place of grease.

For oil, I use a mixture of Mobil 1 synthetic, and Lucas Transmission lube, which I use this on pretty much all moving parts.

What are your thoughts on Moly grease? The stuff I use (Action Lube Plus from Brownell's) is thick like SlideGlide, and stays put pretty well. I usually reserve it for really critical areas like the inside of the bushing, etc...

[Carmoney]

From the sound of it, I'll probably find myself in the minority on this one, but I don't like using grease as a general firearm lubricant, period. I am a big believer in using synthetic motor oil (Mobil 1, for example) for just about every application involving my guns--it does a great job of lubricating and minimizing wear on the bearing surfaces, it keeps the gun running even when the temperatures are too cold for any grease (and most other types of oil), and it stays put really well.

[R A Miller]

I'll preface this post with stating that I am a long time, satisfied user of Slide Glide. I have used Slide Glide Lite mixed with FP-10 in temperatures in the upper 30s with no problems. With temperatures in the triple digits, Slide Glide Standard works fine for me used with a well fit gun.

I follow revolversmith Grant Cunningham's blog. Grant posted an article a while back discussing lubricants for firearms entitled Lubrication 101. Grant goes into the hows and whys of lubricants, much along the lines of big kahuna's post.

The article was very educational for me and I recommend taking the time to read it. Bottom line, when oil is needed, Grant recommends Dexron-type Automatic Transmission Fluid. Grant does not recommend using motor oils, stating: "Generally good boundary lubrication (particularly the Havoline formulations), but very poor corrosion resistance and poor resistance to open-air oxidation."

For grease, Grant recommends Lubriplate "SFL" NLGI #0. This is a food machinery grade grease. It is white, aluminum-based, low odor, has superb boundary lubricants, and is designed specifically for use in environments that encounter a huge temperature range. The operating temperature range is -60 to 300 degrees Fahrenheit.

I recently purchased some Lubriplate "SFL" NLGI #0 and I just started testing it. I'll report back after I've used it for a period of time. My initial impression is that the Lubriplate SFL works very well. Close to 500 rounds through my limited gun after the first application of Lubriplate SFL and the gun still feels "slick."

The OP asked if Lubriplate could cause "stress cracks". The answer is no. Lubriplate 105 is calcium based and Lubriplate SFL is aluminum based. There have been greases that use chlorinated esters as boundary additives. Again, from Grant's article: "As boundary lubes they actually work pretty well; the problem is that they promote a phenomenon known as "stress corrosion cracking" (SCC). Essentially, SCC creates microscopic pits and cracks that, under heat and pressure, widen to become noticeable cracks - and sometimes, even broken parts!"

Jim Anglin (the gunsmith that built my 2011) swears by Lubriplate. He also mixes it with Mobil 1 for lighter weight applications... Jim says that he's been using it for decades and hasn't found anything that he likes better yet.

I'm curious, what specific variety of Lubriplate does Jim Anglin recommend?

Rick

[big_kahuna]

Let me jump on Carmoney's bandwagon for a moment. I do not use grease in the conventional sense on my guns anymore. I'll explain why in a moment.

The lubrication industry has a rating system for grease "thickness", called NLGI ratings. The higher the number the thicker the grease, and the lower the number the thinner the grease. NLGI-2 is common grease like you would buy at an auto parts store for general purpose use. NLGI-3 is thicker, NLGI-4 thicker still. There are also thinner greases rated NLGI-1, NLGI-0 and NLGI-00 (which is a semi-fluid, basically almost oil).

Xfactor, I did try Moly grease. The majority of moly grease is NLGI-2, but I did find one source for NLGI-1. Both grades were too sluggish when the temperatures get low. Moreover, the moly barrier additive is actually crystalline at the microscopic level. Crystalline = not round. Instead of millions of microscopic ball bearings, moly is millions of microscopic sugarcubes. If the carrier (oil + thickener) gets loaded with gunk (powder residue, lead particles, carbon, etc.) and the tolerances are extremely tight, the moly can actually become an abrasive. Some moly greases use a cushioning tackifier to minimize this abrasive effect.

Remember that one of the main reasons for using grease is because we don't want to replace the lube as often. Thus, grease is useful when the machines we are lubing are difficult to service. Guns are not difficult to service, and we can PM our guns often enough that grease is simply not necessary.

IME grease has two primary drawbacks for use on our competition pistols: (1) guns need to be stripped to remove or apply it, and (2) grease doesn't like cold temperatures.

The thicker the grease (higher NLGI rating), the more it will consume the energy of a slide's motion... this phenomenon gets worse as it gets colder. Around here we routinely see 15 degrees in winter... and I simply could not find or make a grease that would allow any of my semi-auto handguns to cycle when it is that cold. The winter of 2006 is when I realized what a pain grease can be... One day on the range I had to strip my 1911 with frozen fingers to remove the sluggish grease and I said enough is enough... so I started looking for an alternative lube (oil, grease, cat turds, whatever) that would really, no kidding, work in extreme temperatures. I also wanted a lube that did not require field-stripping to remove/apply.

I have tried a small sample of an NLGI-0 aluminum-soap thickened grease (similar to the SFL mentioned by RA Miller) and it is nice... but the problem I see is that it is still a grease and I'd need to take my guns apart to remove or apply it. So, when I depleted my sample I was not interested in getting any more.

Remember how I said that oil penetrates and grease doesn't? Oil can be quickly and easily refreshed on a gun by locking back the slide and putting a few drops in a few strategic places (aft slide rails, barrel-bushing interface, slide-frame interface by the slide lock, etc.). Oil was the answer, but which one? I tried a bunch. Many were disappointing (especially several that were marketed as "gun oil"). However, I should note that any of the decent oils worked better than grease when it is 15 degrees on the range.

I couldn't find one commercial oil product that really impressed me, so I've been working on my own formulation. The beta version is very encouraging. Basically it is an intermediate synthetic oil (between common oil and NLGI-00 in consistency) with EP/AW barrier additives and a tackifier. It may just be the best compromise of lubrication tradeoffs... but it is too soon to tell.

EDIT in an attempt to sound less pointyheaded...

Edited June 28, 2009 by big_kahuna

[Xfactor]

I'm curious, what specific variety of Lubriplate does Jim Anglin recommend?

He recommends the 105

Ceasar, thanks again for more good info. I've been working on refining my maintenance process for my Limited gun for a while now, and I'm still open to new and better techniques...

At present, I have been using the Mobil 1 synthetic (5w-30) mixed with a little Lucas Tranny Lube on most of the slide parts (e.g. barrel, slide rails/lugs, guide rod, reverse plug cap, etc.). But for the fire control parts (hammer hooks, sear, disco, mainspring, sear spring, back of the trigger bow, etc.) and the slide stop pin and bushing, I've been using some form of grease since it stays put better. As I mentioned, Anglin recommended the Lubriplate, and it came from him well slathered-up with that... I haven't bought any to re-apply, so I've been using gun butter (which is not nearly as thick) and the moly grease.

Being that it's impractical to dissemble the fire control parts to re-apply the oil when out shooting, do you recommend using some form of grease in these areas? Slide Glide, maybe? What are your thoughts?

Also, please keep us informed on the development/testing of your home-brew hybrid lube!

ETA: "back of the" trigger bow... (as in, where it touches the sear/disco)

Edited June 29, 2009 by Xfactor