LubriPLATE No. 105

[big_kahuna]

... But for the fire control parts (hammer hooks, sear, disco, mainspring, sear spring, trigger bow, etc.) and the slide stop pin and bushing, i've been using some form of grease since it stays put better. As I mentioned, Anglin recommended the Lubriplate, and it came from him well slathered-up with that... I haven't bought any to re-apply, so I've been using gun butter (which is not nearly as thick) and the moly grease.

Being that it's impractical to dissamble the fire control parts to re-apply the oil when out shooting, do you recommend using some form of grease in these areas? Slide Glide, maybe? What are your thoughts?

Aaron,

I believe that grease is a good choice for the hammer, sear, disconector and sear spring. I did this for a while and it worked fine. I'd use oil (or maybe a really thin grease) on the trigger bow, since you want it to move as freely as possible when triggering.

Fire control components in an autopistol are not under heavy loads or high pressure... and they are relatively shielded inside the gun, away from major fouling sources. Moly grease would be fine here, as would Slide Glide or Lubriplate. ETA: Of course, this assumes you are at reasonable temperatures.

Being that it's impractical to dissamble the fire control parts to re-apply the oil when out shooting, do you recommend using some form of grease in these areas? Slide Glide, maybe? What are your thoughts?

I no longer use grease on my fire control components. I use the "Santiago Sauce" oil at present (in-house joke... my kid came up with that name and it is a source of ongoing amusement). One doesn't need to dissassemble the firecontrol parts to reapply oil. However, the oil you use would need to have sufficient penetration AND have enough "tackiness" to keep sufficient film on the hammer/sear/disconnector over time and usage... This is one of the main reasons I added tackifiers to the oil I'm working on. Oils with insufficient tackiness will siphon off the critical contact areas fairly quickly unless you constantly refresh them.

On a 1911/2011, lock the slide back and put one drop on the disconnector tip as it protrudes through the hole. It will penetrate, traveling down the disconnector and redistributing itself onto the sear and sear/hammer interface. Put the slide forward and leave the hammer cocked... put a drop on the base of the hammer, and the oil will again penetrate and redistribute itself to the hammer/frame contact areas, hammer pivot pin, and hammer/sear interface. Done. Show clear, hammer down, holster.

Again, if you use oil for this application it would need a tackifier or some other mechanism to maintain sufficient mechanical film on contact areas over time. If you don't know the properties of the oil you are considering, it would be safer to use grease.

Edited June 28, 2009 by big_kahuna

[R A Miller]

big-kahuna

Around here we routinely see 15 degrees in winter...

15 degrees Fahrenheit? Holy moley!

I couldn't find one commercial oil product that really impressed me, so I've been working on my own formulation. The beta version is very encouraging. Basically it is an intermediate synthetic oil (between common oil and NLGI-00 in consistency) with EP/AW barrier additives and a tackifier. It may just be the best compromise of lubrication tradeoffs... but it is too soon to tell.

Fascinating. Is the oil that you're developing to be for cold weather use or year round use? How do you mix the ingredients? Mechanically (stir it up) or is a more complex process required?

Rick

[big_kahuna]

Rick,

The original idea was a cold weather lube. However, I've been testing in hot weather also and the results seem good. Based on what I've learned so far, I believe that an "oil"-type lubricant can be made to work in all temperature conditions... BUT... there are always trade-offs and compromises (e.g. the need to frequenty refresh oil vs the need to disassemble and replace grease). Oil may be better for some applications, grease for others. If I can come up with a single oil lubricant than works in all weather with minimum drawbacks, I will feel I was successful. But I am not quite there yet.

I should also make this clear: this is just a fun experiment for me and the lubes are for my personal use. I have given small samples to some friends and asked them to test and provide feedback. I do not know if I am ever going to make any significant quantities, because realistically a few dozen ounces can last you for years or a lifetime.

Regarding forumlation: I tried three ways and had some help with methods 2 and 3.

First I tried mechanical cold mixing (just pour in a bowl and stir)... depending on the components used, this method sometimes yields a non-homogenous mix that is not shelf stable over time. In some formulations the various components settle out into layers and require agitation before use (remember the first generation of mil-spec CLP?). So, I hit the phone list and contact someone who knows what they are doing, and was introduced to...

The second method I tried is hot mixing. Heating one or more components before mixing and then maintaining elevated temperature for a predetermined period of time. This is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing or don't have the right equipment. Yes I did try it with some help, and I do not recommend it without knowledgable help. If done properly, this has produced shelf-stable, non-settling, homogenous lubricant oil.

The third and last method I tried was electrochemical mixing. In a two part mix, this involves electrically biasing one liquid component to be more negative or positive than the other. The net result is that one component is colloidally suspended in the other... like molecules repel each other while dissimilar molecules are attracted to each other. Using the electrical charges at the molecular level keeps the mix homogenous. This also requires some knowhow and specific equipment. It is safer than hot mixing and also produces shelf-stable homogenous oil.

There are other methods (basically combinations of steps 1 through 3 above) but I haven't tried them yet (EDIT: I haven't tried them ALL yet ). And to be blunt, I have had some expert help (which I need, because mixing chemicals is not my area of expertise). I have made some decent lubes using all three primary methods but have had the best results with #3.

Edited June 29, 2009 by big_kahuna

[R A Miller]

Thanks for the reply big_kahuna. Very cool. The ingenuity of competition shooters never ceases to amaze me.

It seemed to me that mechanical cold mixing would not yield a homogeneous mix. A colloidal suspension sounds like a good solution.

Good luck on your search for a gun oil that meets your needs.

Rick

[benos]

I'll preface this post with stating that I am a long time, satisfied user of Slide Glide. I have used Slide Glide Lite mixed with FP-10 in temperatures in the upper 30s with no problems. With temperatures in the triple digits, Slide Glide Standard works fine for me used with a well fit gun.

Rick

FP-10 is probably the perfect oil (because it's a very good at doing what an oil is supposed to do) to "cut" the Glide with, for temp's under 30 degrees or so. But the guy who makes my Glide said you can safely (not ruin its lubricating qualities) cut it with most any oil (synthetic or petroleum-based).

Okay, I'll plug the Glide a bit. Bruce Gray is the most over-the-top, creative gunsmith I've ever met. I once watched him install a new Bomar rear sight - on a kitchen table - with some files! And the end job was better than most gunsmiths can do, with a mill. Anyway, he called me up to order some Glide one day, and said "we bathe in the stuff." To me, that's about as good as it gets.

Then recently I sent some to Johnny Roland (inventor of the 460 Rowland and general gunsmithing wizard) to test. He couldn't have gave it a better endorsement. He said what really impressed him was its performance on stainless pistols. He said he had one stainless (frame and slide) pistol that he just couldn't make run 100%. Said he even spent all evening on it polishing all the friction areas with lapping compound. Still wouldn't run 100%. Slapped some Glide on it - and it ran perfectly, like it never had. He's going to start buying the Glide and sending a tube with each new pistol he ships.

I've had some other miracle-type reports, especially with stainless guns. I've never owned a stainless pistol, because in general they're not as reliable as steel pistol, so I'd never even tried it on one. But from the feedback I get, it's like a dream come true.

I have a dealer/customer that owns a gunshop with fairly big indoor range. He's been selling the Glide in his store... One day he lubed all 48 of his rental guns with the Glide. He said that was the first time ever that all the rental guns ran 100%. I guess, when the gun jams, your average gun-rental customer will come out with a sour look on his face, and possible even whine a bit (because he's paying by the hour). But then he said one guy eventually produced a jammed pistol. But when he checked it he realized it was the one gun that somehow didn't get lubed with the Glide.

Way way back in the day we used 3 in one oil on our guns I guess it worked ok but back then our guns tended to be a bit looser and less dependable than now. lol Thankfully we have a lot better stuff now like Brians product.

I wouldn't use lubriplate on a good gun even if it is free. Had a customer buy a very nice high end over and under shotgun. It was very tight to open because there is a large bearing surface between the forearm iron and the receiver. You almost had to break it across your knee. It should have never been built that tight and I offered to adjust it for him as I've done a lot of them of that brand. But instead the guy listened to an old timer at the club who loaned him a can of lubriplate and advised him to lube it up with that and break it in by shooting it. Next time I see the gun the bearing surfaces are very badly gaulded and it is practically locked up. The lubriplate didn't protect it. Took a lot of work to get it useable and it will always be scared up, expensive lesson and he nearly completely ruined it.

It's nice to see you on the forums Ross.

be

[HSMITH]

As soon as the temps get above about 45* I FILL my guns with Slide Glide Lite. I have played with every major gun lube and a bunch of other lubes, and SGL just performs better than anything else my money has ever been able to buy. My competition guns are quite tight and the heavier grades slow them down enough that I won't use them, but stock type guns love the standard. In the cold I am using Weapon Shield now, Chuck told me about some tests he saw at Shot Show and I bought it.

When I say I fill them I am not kidding, I use Brian's 'cheap ass brush' and I paint every interior surface with enough to see a good film, the film is pink and you can SEE depth in it. I also coat the hammer and sear, the disconnector and back of the trigger bow. The sides and front of the trigger bow are BONE DRY and CLEAN, another benefit to SG is it stays where you put it and doesn't migrate to where you don't want it like every oil there is will do. I coat the barrel well and if it is a bushing gun I fill the back of the bushing before assembly, it makes a tremendous grease tank that keeps the barrel and bushing lubed for an eternity. It is the ONLY lube I have found that an extremely tight bushing cannot wipe off over time, fill it up and shoot without worry.

Guys that shoot with me can verify this: I routinely shoot 5-7K rounds through my Limited gun and 2-3K through my Open gun without cleaning. Months of match shooting without cleaning is really nice, and the guns are still dead tight. That was NOT possible before Slide Glide without re-application of oil each time out. Also, one of the HUGE benefits of Slide Glide to me is not having my shirts and hats destroyed in a few matches, it doesn't come out of the gun and doesn't get on me like ANY oil will. It is also nice not to have to clean my glasses during a match. The other big advantage to me is that with Slide Glide the fouling never gets hard, no scrubbing or fuss to clean the gun when I do clean. Just hose it out with brake cleaner and re-paint it with SGL.

Sorry if it seems like a Slide Glide commercial, but I am SOLD on it. I still try new stuff as it comes out, but nothing has been close. Every gun I build ships full of Slide Glide, I can't think of a stronger endorsement.

[big_kahuna]

All the goofy experimenting aside... when my son shot the Majors last year (Nationals, Pro-Am, Area-2, Silver Buckle, Golden Bullet, etc.) his gun had Slide Glide Light in it.

[R A Miller]

FP-10 is probably the perfect oil (because it's a very good at doing what an oil is supposed to do) to "cut" the Glide with, for temp's under 30 degrees or so. But the guy who makes my Glide said you can safely (not ruin its lubricating qualities) cut it with most any oil (synthetic or petroleum-based).

be

That's good to know Brian. FP-10 preserves the stinginess of Slide Glide so I had stopped looking for anything else to cut it with for cold weather use.

Rick

[benos]

As soon as the temps get above about 45* I FILL my guns with Slide Glide Lite. I have played with every major gun lube and a bunch of other lubes, and SGL just performs better than anything else my money has ever been able to buy. My competition guns are quite tight and the heavier grades slow them down enough that I won't use them, but stock type guns love the standard. In the cold I am using Weapon Shield now, Chuck told me about some tests he saw at Shot Show and I bought it.

When I say I fill them I am not kidding, I use Brian's 'cheap ass brush' and I paint every interior surface with enough to see a good film, the film is pink and you can SEE depth in it. I also coat the hammer and sear, the disconnector and back of the trigger bow. The sides and front of the trigger bow are BONE DRY and CLEAN, another benefit to SG is it stays where you put it and doesn't migrate to where you don't want it like every oil there is will do. I coat the barrel well and if it is a bushing gun I fill the back of the bushing before assembly, it makes a tremendous grease tank that keeps the barrel and bushing lubed for an eternity. It is the ONLY lube I have found that an extremely tight bushing cannot wipe off over time, fill it up and shoot without worry.

Guys that shoot with me can verify this: I routinely shoot 5-7K rounds through my Limited gun and 2-3K through my Open gun without cleaning. Months of match shooting without cleaning is really nice, and the guns are still dead tight. That was NOT possible before Slide Glide without re-application of oil each time out. Also, one of the HUGE benefits of Slide Glide to me is not having my shirts and hats destroyed in a few matches, it doesn't come out of the gun and doesn't get on me like ANY oil will. It is also nice not to have to clean my glasses during a match. The other big advantage to me is that with Slide Glide the fouling never gets hard, no scrubbing or fuss to clean the gun when I do clean. Just hose it out with brake cleaner and re-paint it with SGL.

Sorry if it seems like a Slide Glide commercial, but I am SOLD on it. I still try new stuff as it comes out, but nothing has been close. Every gun I build ships full of Slide Glide, I can't think of a stronger endorsement.

Wow - that is a great endorsement Howard - thank you!

And you've figured it out with the "fill 'er up" routine.

be

[larry cazes]

From the sound of it, I'll probably find myself in the minority on this one, but I don't like using grease as a general firearm lubricant, period. I am a big believer in using synthetic motor oil (Mobil 1, for example) for just about every application involving my guns--it does a great job of lubricating and minimizing wear on the bearing surfaces, it keeps the gun running even when the temperatures are too cold for any grease (and most other types of oil), and it stays put really well.

I also use oil only. Used to use Mobil 1 but a couple of years back brownells gave away samples of a synthetic oil at Area2. It's the best oil I have found so far for firearms. I spend the extra 5 minutes it takes to clean my gun and re apply oil before each match.

[Dwight Stearns]

I use a varity of lubericants depending on the job including slide glide lite but my favorite use of SG lite is on the recoil buffer spring on an AR 15. It totally eliminates the spring twang immediately after the shot and does not affect function even in cold weather. I know that the twang is not a problem but it drives me nuts. Yes I know it's a short drive.

Dwight Stearns

Edited July 1, 2009 by Dwight Stearns

[Dwight Stearns]

Sorry about the thread theft.

Dwight

[Xfactor]

...my favorite use of SG lite is on the recoil buffer spring on an AR 15. It totally eliminates the spring twang immediately after the shot and does not affect function even in cold weather...

Hmm... may have to give that one a try!!