Steel Case Or Not In My Brand New ARs ?

[MichiganShootist]

Now that 5.56 ammo has become very pricey... I'd like to know how you experienced AR shooters feel about steel cased ammo (yeah-- like Wolf)????

I am a 40+ year shooter but I am new to the AR platform and have a new DPMS and a Colt HBAR NM that I don't want to screw up.

Mark

Sorry guys--- This was going to be a pole... but I started it during happy hour and it didn't work out as planned:)

So------- what is your feedback????

Edited June 5, 2009 by MichiganShootist

[Bacon]

I personally don't care for it. Would not use the lacquer coated cases if you paid me. I was teaching a basic rifle course at the academy, and a dept. sent their recruit brass cased wolf. that recruit got real good at transitioning to his handgun, and clearing jams.

[Franklin D Wolverton]

Chrome/moly barrel? Maybe. Chrome/moly barrels are harder than steel, and should be ok.

Stainless barrel? Not only no, but hell no. You don't want to put a steel case through a steel chamber... it'll scratch the hell out of it.

Frank

[Religious Shooter]

I used to use Wolf extensively. I still would be using it but they added steel to the bullet.

Even with the steel in the bullet I still would be use it. But the ranges and 2/3 of the matches that I go to won't allow them to be used because of the steel in the bullet.

I probably wouldn't use it in my JP. But I would use them with my other guns.

[kwrangln]

Not all steels are created equally. The steel used in bullet casings is actually pretty soft stuff in comparison to barrel steel be it stainless or chromo. so worrys of scratching the chamber are moot.

Wolf and other steel cased ammo still gets dinged on the whole laquer thing as well, which is not really a concern. People think the laquer (which hasn't been used in years, all current wolf available is poly coated and even better) is gumming up their chambers leading to stuck casings etc, in reality it is because the steel casing does not expand as readily as a brass casing to seal the chamber so there is some fowling from each shot which can build up in the chamber reducting tolerances untill a shell sticks. For me it took 1500 rds without a chamber brush to get one stuck, but your milage may vary as individual chamber tolerances will dictate how dirty they can be and still function. This problem is magnified when shooting steel cased ammo and then switching to brass cased ammo without cleaning first. Deposits in chamber, brass case conforms to the fowling, and boom, FTE. Bottom line, if you shoot steel cased ammo, keep your chamber clean and you won't have a problem.

The real problem with Wolf and other steel cased ammo is that its loaded a bit lighter than most domestic ammo. As a result some rifles don't like it and wont function properly. From my reading, Colts are especially picky about this as their gas systems are pretty much tuned to run reliably on the hotter MIL ammo and wolf doesn't have enough oomph to cycle them completely. Reducing buffer weight or spring weight will allow them to function with the softer loads.

Since I got into AR's at the beginning of the pricing madness ($250 per K for Wolf when I got my rifle), Wolf is all mine has ever shot. I'm not spending $500 per K just to plink at the range I'll stick with shooting pistol before I do that. There are still a bunch of folks who won't touch steel cased ammo, I think most of them are holding onto beliefs formed when brass cased 5.56 was available cheap ($.10-$.15 per round) and people could afford to turn up their noses at the cheaper imported ammo. In todays day and age with ammo becoming more expensive than the guns it's shot out of, us poor folks who scrimp and save for our hobbies don't have that luxury.

Is steel cased ammo the best? Nope, not by a long shot. Is it a viable alternative for plinking and practice? Durn tootin it is.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Bigbadaboom]

If your barrel is chrome lined then the chrome is harder than any steel casing or bullet that you are going to put through it. As stated by others, the steel used in ammo is a very soft steel in comparison to barrel steel and chrome.

[MichiganShootist]

Thanks guys...I'll have to check out the specs on the chambers.

One is a Colt HBAR Natl Match model 6700

The other is a DPMS Sportical Model in 5.56

[bigbrowndog]

shoot it if your guns likes it, if it doesn't then don't. I've used it in all my AR's chrome/moly and SS barrels, the ONLY issue I've had was that one of my rifles chambers didn't like to let go of it. So i figured it was working the extractor pretty hard, and decided to not use it in that particular rifle. I've shot various brands and have had good to excellent results, the Hornady practice ammo that they make uses someone elses steel cases and a Hornady bullet, that stuff is very accurate in all my guns.

As for someone elses anecdotal secondhand stories, I'd say don't give it too much consideration, all my experience has been firsthand and I've had no problems, with accuracy or functioning, even the aforementioned rifle worked just fine, i just didn't want to work the extractor that hard.

trapr

[ShooterSteve]

I have a Colt Hbar, comp match target, and the wolf will not run in my gun. Multiple malfs. I didn't dig into the whys of it all, just simply changed ammo and domestic stuff ran fine. This is not a slam on Wolf ammo, I would run it if it worked for me, simply because of how expensive everything has gotten.

[EkuJustice]

Shoot wolf all the time in mine. From what I have seen it is not near as Underpowered as people claim it is. I shot it over a chrono at the state match and was getting roughly 2875FPS with a 62 grain bullet. So 178+ powerfactor out of a 16 inch gun. It has never had a bit of trouble in my guns and shoots fine for most of the shooting I do. If its steel targets or VERY long shots I will switch over to something a little better but this works just fine for alot less coin than the brass. Never a FTF, FTE, bad primer nothing out of either one of the rifles and that is with a light trigger in the guns

[HRider]

I have shot many thousands of rounds of Wolf 223 through my Colt MT6700C and a Bushmaster M4 carbine. I have never had a malfunction with either of them. I did try some in a 7.5" AR pistol and it wouldn't eject (other factory 223 would eject, but was short stroking and wouldn't strip another round). This particular pistol wouldn't cycle anything that wasn't 5.56 NATO spec until the gas port was opened up slightly. Now Wolf runs it it as well.

Wolf has never been the most accurate ammo that I have shot in these rifles, but plenty good for hoser stuff.

The only thing that has bothered me is that the Colt is not chrome lined and I wondered if I might be eroding the chamber.

Patrick Sweeney wrote an article about running 5000 rounds of Wolf through a Stag carbine in a week with only two malfunctions (failures to extract from baking in a hot chamber, I believe) and the rifle was still a 1.5MOA rifle at the end of the week (although not with Wolf ammo).

I sure wish that it was still $105 per thousand laying on my front porch when I got home

Hurley

[MichiganShootist]

I sure wish that it was still $105 per thousand laying on my front porch when I got home

Hurley

Yeah---- I picked the wrong time to take on a new addiction

[CocoBolo]

I have shot 1,000's of rounds of Monarch (serbian) steel cased 223 rounds thru my BushMaster M4 with no issues. Also shot Wolf with no problems. 55gr FMJ/BT.

If you could get small rifle primers the .223 is very cheap to reload. At any carbine match I pickup a 1000 pieces of brass just from the Squad I'm shooting with. It is a lot of work prepping the brass but after that it is nothing to prime, powder, and seat I do that in my progressive press, and produce 500 rounds an hour. Yes, I have a case feeder.

[blkbrd]

The guys I have seen condemning Wolf are usually the guys that might shoot 200 rounds a year and the gun-store/Internet commandos.

I have personally put 10's of thousands of rounds down range in matches and practice and the only problems I have seen is it low powered " a good thing in local matches", accuracy is lower 1.5 MOA, and its slightly dirty.

If you want clean run VV or X-Terminator.

This is in barrels running from Colt and Bushy M4's to pricey JP's and Krieger's.

The steel case being hard on extractor bit is put out by people that have not ran a Brineal tester against a soft pot metal/ steel case.

Yes you will stick a case using the old lacker coated stuff if you leave a case in a hot gun, but not with the newer stuff.

[HRider]

If you still worry about Wolf, I won some Atlanta Arms Ammo from the prize table at Ft Benning last year. I have ran a few hundred of his 55gr loads through my Colt R6600 and it seems to be fine. The ammo that I got was all loaded into LC brass. I believe his price list showed $375 +shipping per thousand. It is still more than Wolf but not bad compared to some other prices that I have seen. He also shipped within a week. I would buy more of his stuff.

Hurley

[EkuJustice]

Shot tons of it and havent seen the low power you speak of. Mine was doing 178 PF+ on the chrono at the state shoot and that was out of the 16 inch gun. Not exactly cutting it close on PF

[dqshooter]

The only problem I have ever had with wolf is the primer sealant tends to build up a little bit. I have run over 15000 rounds thru my AR-15. I started having some problems and it turned out to be the crappy vulcan gas block, I will never buy on of those again. Keep your gas tube clean and watch for build up inside your bolt carier where your bolt seats in. The bottom line is; if your gun functions well with wolf ammo stick with it. I have noticed some surplus Green laquered wolf (old style) has hit the streets again. You do not want to use it, I watched a case hit and stick to someone at a carbine match and it wasn't pretty. My opinion only.

[Vespid_Wasp]

I have shot a case of wolf through my AR with not a single malfunction.

Chome lined bore and chamber, 5.56 chamber.

It was not accurate enough that I would trust it for a match with 300 yard shots, but it was fine for practice.

I would buy more if I didn't have all these reloading components for 223.

[STIGUY]

Not all steels are created equally. The steel used in bullet casings is actually pretty soft stuff in comparison to barrel steel be it stainless or chromo. so worrys of scratching the chamber are moot.

Wolf and other steel cased ammo still gets dinged on the whole laquer thing as well, which is not really a concern. People think the laquer (which hasn't been used in years, all current wolf available is poly coated and even better) is gumming up their chambers leading to stuck casings etc, in reality it is because the steel casing does not expand as readily as a brass casing to seal the chamber so there is some fowling from each shot which can build up in the chamber reducting tolerances untill a shell sticks. For me it took 1500 rds without a chamber brush to get one stuck, but your milage may vary as individual chamber tolerances will dictate how dirty they can be and still function. This problem is magnified when shooting steel cased ammo and then switching to brass cased ammo without cleaning first. Deposits in chamber, brass case conforms to the fowling, and boom, FTE. Bottom line, if you shoot steel cased ammo, keep your chamber clean and you won't have a problem.

The real problem with Wolf and other steel cased ammo is that its loaded a bit lighter than most domestic ammo. As a result some rifles don't like it and wont function properly. From my reading, Colts are especially picky about this as their gas systems are pretty much tuned to run reliably on the hotter MIL ammo and wolf doesn't have enough oomph to cycle them completely. Reducing buffer weight or spring weight will allow them to function with the softer loads.

Since I got into AR's at the beginning of the pricing madness ($250 per K for Wolf when I got my rifle), Wolf is all mine has ever shot. I'm not spending $500 per K just to plink at the range I'll stick with shooting pistol before I do that. There are still a bunch of folks who won't touch steel cased ammo, I think most of them are holding onto beliefs formed when brass cased 5.56 was available cheap ($.10-$.15 per round) and people could afford to turn up their noses at the cheaper imported ammo. In todays day and age with ammo becoming more expensive than the guns it's shot out of, us poor folks who scrimp and save for our hobbies don't have that luxury.

Is steel cased ammo the best? Nope, not by a long shot. Is it a viable alternative for plinking and practice? Durn tootin it is.

Hope this helps a bit.

I have shot Monarch (steel case and lanquer finish) in my AR and I can assure you it is loaded at higher velocity than most plinking .223 ammo. I have a gun that I put "together" that includes a JP low mass bolt assembly and the stuff still jams when the gun heats up. I thought it was the melting of the lacquer. But if your stating that it is not then I don't know. If I shoot rounds slower than rapid fired one after the other....it seems to occur less often. So I would think it is the gumming up of the melted laquer.

[redwoods]

I personally don't care for it. Would not use the lacquer coated cases if you paid me. I was teaching a basic rifle course at the academy, and a dept. sent their recruit brass cased wolf. that recruit got real good at transitioning to his handgun, and clearing jams.

Brass cased wolf? I think you meant steel cased wolf.

[johoevasmatrix]

I have only shot a few thousand rounds through a bushmaster in 223 wolf. The problem I have with it is I shoot one mag fine, then i shoot another and I have a case stick in the chamber perhaps 5 times on a 30 round mag.. it seems my chamber heats up and my extracter pulls the rim off the case. I talked to a guy today and he seemed to believe I just needed a new bolt, he was shooting 22s and told me to use his bolt. so I went through three mags and no case left in the chamber. I am just a range shooter but if I can save $60-$80 per k rounds. then wolf is just as much fun as brass and I don't feel the need to pick up the steel cases. I am going to try a new bold and keep with wolf, If I change bolt and still have stuck cases I will stick with federal. So if anyone else has some Ideas I would love to hear your .02

[EkuJustice]

try a new extractor spring and o ring. I use that on all my guns and never a problem with any ammo. It is also helpful on an SBR which is pretty violent and can cause the bolt to come back fast and pull the extractor off the rim. Never a problem with the oring in it

[johoevasmatrix]

SBR????

[MstngLX50]

SBR????

Short Barrel Rifle = anything less than 16"

The 10 inch barreled rifles operate pretty violently.

[Alaskapopo]

Now that 5.56 ammo has become very pricey... I'd like to know how you experienced AR shooters feel about steel cased ammo (yeah-- like Wolf)????

I am a 40+ year shooter but I am new to the AR platform and have a new DPMS and a Colt HBAR NM that I don't want to screw up.

Mark

Sorry guys--- This was going to be a pole... but I started it during happy hour and it didn't work out as planned:)

So------- what is your feedback????

Some guns will run with it but frankly I don't bother with the stuff. Steel cases are harde on the extractor. A lot of steel ammo has mild steel bullets with a copper flash which is horrid on your barrel. Any money you save will be paid in repairing the gun sooner rather than later.

No steel for me.

Pat