distance of hathcock shot

[ChrisMcCracken]

Eruculindon, to each their own?????

Fair enough.

Knowing where you're group is would in my opinion be an advantage, I'm trying for no group, just a hit, read the wind, mirage, hope your loads are consistent enough, all the things that you should be doing, just know that you only have one shot, so many people talk about their rifles accuracy at 100yds. I really do not get interested in accuracy with an optically driven rifle until you get beyond 200yds, at those distances its the rifle AND the shooter, fieldcraft and pulling the trigger, rifle building and shooter ability. A group shows consistency, but its placement shows precision, and one shot leaves NO room for error, luck can play a part, but who here wouldn't accept a bit of luck, at any time!!!!!

I agree. One step in such precision is aiming small. What you are proposing automatically makes you aim small. It's also useful to aim small within a larger target. My suggestion didn't necessitate that all the shots on the target be on the same day. Only take one shot. Pick your spot. Aim for the precise spot you want. It lands where it lands. You know whether you hit where you were aiming or not.

Personally, my intent is to do it, and then do it again, and see how many times it takes to accomplish and then re-accomplish.

Do it under different conditions, too. Rain? Up or down 30% slopes? With unknown distances?

Believe me, I know exactly where you are coming from. It's a fun challenge; certainly not one I'm capable of at the moment. I commend your drive to set a goal and determination to see it out.

[kgunz11]

knowing where you're group is would in my opinion be an advantage, I'm trying for no group, just a hit, read the wind, mirage, hope your loads are consistent enough, all the things that you should be doing, just know that you only have one shot, so many people talk about their rifles accuracy at 100yds. I really do not get interested in accuracy with an optically driven rifle until you get beyond 200yds, at those distances its the rifle AND the shooter, fieldcraft and pulling the trigger, rifle building and shooter ability. A group shows consistency, but its placement shows precision, and one shot leaves NO room for error, luck can play a part, but who here wouldn't accept a bit of luck, at any time!!!!!

Personally, my intent is to do it, and then do it again, and see how many times it takes to accomplish and then re-accomplish.

trapr

You really said a lot in that. Those of that shoot precision rifle and train hard do as you want to do. We set up an accuracy drill and we run it, cold shooter and cold rifle. Adding stress to the scenario is the next step. My long range mentor goes out every morning with a couple of his "work" rifles and he does such a drill. He HAS to, in his mind, he needs to know he can make that shot, hot or cold, or he wont be able to pull the trigger when it is required of him.

[Mike P]

I've been warned that this topic is borderline, the topic was closed and I was able to get it reopened, so please do not discuss the Gunny's equipment or ability here. I am just interested in the yardage, and "MY" challenge.

thanks for understanding, Trapr

Well, I understand the intent, but if memory serves me correctly from the book (and it might not) The good sgt was aiming at the reflection, not at the scope or the other soldier's upper B zone. (couldn't resist) So, while it would be a money shot on the upper B zone, the scope thing could have been some luck.

Heck, do the challenge, there is usually some luck in a match too. (even bad)

Mike

[Springfield Champion]

From what I remember reading his book they could hear each other running around and trading hides. So however far a breaking stick can be heard by a ear that truely wants to stay alive??? I'm not thinking a 90 lb NVA breaks sticks big enough to be heard at 500 yds. Answer is you'll never know.

[Mark K]

I had the good fortune to be a teammate of some of the finest 300m international miltary marksmen of all time (Lones Wigger, Glenn Dubis, etc). They (and sometimes me) could shoot a bolt action rifle prone with iron sights, 10 shots in 1 minute at 300 meter range on international target with 3" 10 ring and keep 99% of hem in that ring. Most of those guys could do it 97% of the time in 1.5 minutes kneeling, and damned of guys like Dubis could not do it 90% plus of the time standing in 2 minutes. SO the shooting is definitely possible.

I remember reading the Hathcock book while at the USMAU, and noting from the pictures that the scope was a Unertl.

Last - I will never say that the through the scope shot was not done. HOWEVER, the hard part to believe, for me, is any thought of the bullet hitting the objective lense and traveling through a 12" plus tube and hitting the shooter in the eye. The reason: The bullet is not traveling in a straight line from the shooter to shootee. Ballistic arc - at any sizable distance, a .308 or 30-06 is traveling in a sizable arch, and thus if it hit objective lense, it is more likely to me to continue on through the front bell of the scope than down the tube. Not really enough metal there to channel it down the tube. I could believe it hit the eyepiece and then hit the target;s eye.

Would love to hear any opposing views.

Mark K

[kgunz11]

Mark, yes the Marine Corp SS scope became a Unertl, but during Vietnam when Hathcock deployed the Model 70 rifle he was using the Redfield. There were a whole buncha different scopes going on rifles during the time before Unertl, but those building period correct M40 replica rifles seek the Redfield scopes (which are no longer made) and 2 piece bases.

I've seen impossible things happen. The scope shot would have been one of those impossible things. I have lots of theories about how it COULD happen, but no need to waste bandwidth on it here.

[boz1911]

BTW, I have two rifles in my safe, one that will shoot 1/4" 5 shot groups, the other 1/2" 5 shot groups.

Neither has been fired since 1994

I'll go 200.00 each IF they're not all rusted up.

[Singlestack]

Would love to hear any opposing views.

Mark K

We will not be debating that here.

[Religious Shooter]

Oops...

Edited May 29, 2009 by Religious Shooter

[38supPat]

Again, this is not the place to argue the actual event or the details of such, keep it to the origional posters line of questioning...

[Mark K]

Would love to hear any opposing views.

Mark K

We will not be debating that here.

No problem, John. Did not mean arguments, just interest if someone had other ideas. Only way to learn is to ask.

Mark K

[GentlemanJim]

Pretty tough cold shot Trapr

I would have a pocket full of rabbits feet

Jim

[Red_SC]

Put the shooter behind the rifle, show him the target and give him the distance. Don't let him dial any corrections, give him 30 seconds to make the shot from the time you show him the target. You have to remember, when Hathcock took this shot he was engaging an enemy sniper that was also engaging him. Add the stress of a timer into things and some of the best shooters can and will fall apart. It's amazing how few folks can hit something as simple as a 1" dot at 300 yards, and remember, 1" is .33 MOA at 300 yards. Very few field rifles hold that degree of accuracy from the bench, let alone field conditions.

Sounds like a good event for our next Practical Marksman Challenge. I'll let you know what the results are.

Sounds like I know one of the shots that I'll have to practice for.

And, if I know you, it'll be done from the side of a 60 degree incline, in 14 inches of water, shooting around a pine tree, with the target barely visible through the snow.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Red_SC

[kgunz11]

Put the shooter behind the rifle, show him the target and give him the distance. Don't let him dial any corrections, give him 30 seconds to make the shot from the time you show him the target. You have to remember, when Hathcock took this shot he was engaging an enemy sniper that was also engaging him. Add the stress of a timer into things and some of the best shooters can and will fall apart. It's amazing how few folks can hit something as simple as a 1" dot at 300 yards, and remember, 1" is .33 MOA at 300 yards. Very few field rifles hold that degree of accuracy from the bench, let alone field conditions.

Sounds like a good event for our next Practical Marksman Challenge. I'll let you know what the results are.

Sounds like I know one of the shots that I'll have to practice for.

And, if I know you, it'll be done from the side of a 60 degree incline, in 14 inches of water, shooting around a pine tree, with the target barely visible through the snow.

Now now Jamie, that's not me, that's the Cap'n. If it were up to me, the shots would be luck shots, but you'd have plenty of time to do them. You know, the kind of shot that you make once in a life time, near impossible shot, but some lucky bastage makes it so you know it can be done. Or something so stupid easy you can't believe you missed it, like a 3/8" dot at 11'.

[Red_SC]

Put the shooter behind the rifle, show him the target and give him the distance. Don't let him dial any corrections, give him 30 seconds to make the shot from the time you show him the target. You have to remember, when Hathcock took this shot he was engaging an enemy sniper that was also engaging him. Add the stress of a timer into things and some of the best shooters can and will fall apart. It's amazing how few folks can hit something as simple as a 1" dot at 300 yards, and remember, 1" is .33 MOA at 300 yards. Very few field rifles hold that degree of accuracy from the bench, let alone field conditions.

Sounds like a good event for our next Practical Marksman Challenge. I'll let you know what the results are.

Sounds like I know one of the shots that I'll have to practice for.

And, if I know you, it'll be done from the side of a 60 degree incline, in 14 inches of water, shooting around a pine tree, with the target barely visible through the snow.

Now now Jamie, that's not me, that's the Cap'n. If it were up to me, the shots would be luck shots, but you'd have plenty of time to do them. You know, the kind of shot that you make once in a life time, near impossible shot, but some lucky bastage makes it so you know it can be done. Or something so stupid easy you can't believe you missed it, like a 3/8" dot at 11'.

Man, I'd practiced down to 25 yards, but still wasn't ready for that shot. There were a whole bunch of guys walking away from that stage shaking their heads!

I will say, I liked the pistol stages this year. A lot of the guys don't shoot pistols much, but most of them had a lot of fun doing it, even if they did complain about the way they shot.

[kgunz11]

The shoot house is on my YouTube account.

[Middle Man]

This thread brings to mind Jeff Cooper's Project from 2004... Seems that someone did it: 20 shots into a 20-inch circle in 20 seconds at 1000 yards, now to go back and look it up.

[gm iprod]

2 MOA at 1000y. No Bipod and Bolt Action rifle?

Not sure I could do it unless the wind was pretty non existant. I have shoot three rounds into a ipsc target at 800M with help from a good spotter on the wind. Dialled up the range but held off as per instructions. Hit all three shots (not dead centre, but dead target) in 3 minutes and I had a sandbag ubde the front of the rifle. It was a sporting rifle not a target rifle though.

I have a one shot hit and kill on a deer at just over 800yards, with two witnesses, had to finish off a wounded one for a guy. 338Win Mag Tikka, little or no wind and I knew where the gunwas going at 600 held over the rest. Again not perfect but good enough.