Law Enforcement and Military Shooting Teams

[RangerTrace]

Can anyone list the LEO and Military Shooting Teams that shoot USPSA matches? Obviously U.S. Army and Border Patrol.....anyone else?

Thanks,

Trace

[jasmap]

Las Cruces PD also. I am Border Patrol and we just had one of our guys finish in the Top 16 in his 3rd straight Nationals (Production, Production, Single Stack).

Edited May 16, 2009 by jasmap

[Chris Keen]

Air Force

[Pdoyle]

Las Cruces has had one for a couple of years. Shooting mostly USPSA and 3 gun events. Started for professional instructor development. Has worked out great. training days on our ranges sometimes look like 3 gun or uspsa match. Throw in some force on force training and it is fun. I know LAPD has a shooting team as does Minneapolis PD. In NM Albuquerque PD has started one as well as BCSO. NMSP has also just started on woth an emphasis on PPC. Seems to be a good trend in this area. I have to admit - it is a lot of fun.

[RobMoore]

I'm working on getting a USSS team up and running, its just a matter of timing and the budget.

[LPatterson]

Air Force

I know Roger Sherman shoots with an AF Team shirt but I have never seen a full AF team at a Nationals.

[Zerwas]

I am aware of a Minneapolis PD pistol team.

[Pdoyle]

Theo Carter has been shooting some very solid matches for Navy Shooting team. In my opinion they have the coolest looking shirts too. Sorry AMU guys it is true.

[jasmap]

Theo Carter has been shooting some very solid matches for Navy Shooting team. In my opinion they have the coolest looking shirts too. Sorry AMU guys it is true.

True. Theo is sneaky good.

[SA Friday]

Air Force

I know Roger Sherman shoots with an AF Team shirt but I have never seen a full AF team at a Nationals.

Unfortunately, the AF team members have a lot of red tape to deal with to get to major matches, and the support is a lot less than most would believe. Also, a commander has to make the decision to pull an airman out of a deployment, TDY, the mission to let them take a permissive TDY to shoot a match. Easy decision for the commander. There are a lot of deployments now a days.

I ran into Roger at the BX at Ali AB, Iraq last year.

AMU's primary job is to shoot as I understand it. Not sure how it is with the Navy team or other LE agencies, but I would suspect it's tougher for them to get to matches because of job constraints than AMU too.

[jasmap]

Air Force

I know Roger Sherman shoots with an AF Team shirt but I have never seen a full AF team at a Nationals.

Unfortunately, the AF team members have a lot of red tape to deal with to get to major matches, and the support is a lot less than most would believe. Also, a commander has to make the decision to pull an airman out of a deployment, TDY, the mission to let them take a permissive TDY to shoot a match. Easy decision for the commander. There are a lot of deployments now a days.

I ran into Roger at the BX at Ali AB, Iraq last year.

AMU's primary job is to shoot as I understand it. Not sure how it is with the Navy team or other LE agencies, but I would suspect it's tougher for them to get to matches because of job constraints than AMU too.

We (Border Patrol) aren't under the same gudelines as the AMU or the Air Force Team. A few of us are in AZ, Phoenix & Tucson, but there are a couple of other guys spread out across the U.S. That being the case for us, we sometimes have to seek seperate funding from a specific sector for 1 person while the others get it nationally or even their specific sector. Our Border Patrol PPC Team is congressionally funded but we are not. But they have world champs and we don't. It can be an ordeal to get to go to the Nationals but our shooting team boss has been phenomenal at making it happen for us.

[G-ManBart]

We pretty much don't have anything.....nadda. As I understand it, the guys at the firearms training unit can get permission to shoot matches on permissive TDY (as opposed to taking vacation). The problem with that is that if you win anything it has to be turned over to Uncle Sam to sit in a vault where it will never be used How's that for beauracracy? I guess the theory is if you're on gov't time you can't gain from it as you're already getting paid...or something like that. I could kinda sorta see it if you were using an issued gun with issued ammo, they were paying the travel costs and entry fee, but that's never gonna happen!

I keep thinking it would be funny to have a Techwear shirt made up as though we have a team and wear it to some big matches Now that I think of it I could add "team captain" to it too....

[Lanzo]

We pretty much don't have anything.....nadda. As I understand it, the guys at the firearms training unit can get permission to shoot matches on permissive TDY (as opposed to taking vacation). The problem with that is that if you win anything it has to be turned over to Uncle Sam to sit in a vault where it will never be used How's that for beauracracy? I guess the theory is if you're on gov't time you can't gain from it as you're already getting paid...or something like that. I could kinda sorta see it if you were using an issued gun with issued ammo, they were paying the travel costs and entry fee, but that's never gonna happen!

I keep thinking it would be funny to have a Techwear shirt made up as though we have a team and wear it to some big matches Now that I think of it I could add "team captain" to it too....

Last I heard AMU keeps what they win.

--Lanzo

[Flexmoney]

That is what I thought too, which I always wondered if that was good to go.

Don't ask, don't tell?

[Lanzo]

That is what I thought too, which I always wondered if that was good to go.

Don't ask, don't tell?

Technically...I don't think it would be. It would depend on how they are getting entries and hotels paid for and the such. Those guys are shooters, just like us. Well...just faster...and more accurate. They've worked hard and deserve what they win.

But...we're only speculating here of course

--Lanzo

[LChico]

AMU's primary job is to shoot as I understand it. Not sure how it is with the Navy team or other LE agencies, but I would suspect it's tougher for them to get to matches because of job constraints than AMU too.

Well, that is somewhat correct. They are expected to shoot in competition to showcase their skills as part of the PR aspect of the job & to maintain their expertise. But the shooters on all of the AMU teams (not just Action Shooting) spend a good deal of their time training other soldiers. In addition, they host a number of competitions and do a great deal of PR work, because recruitment is part of their mission:

AMU mission: Raise the standard of marksmanship proficiency and combat readiness throughout the Army by sharing knowledge gained from competing and winning in national/ international competitions, research and development and advanced training programs while enhancing the Army's recruiting effort through an active public information and public relations program.

On the subject of winnings:

That is what I thought too, which I always wondered if that was good to go.

Don't ask, don't tell?

Technically...I don't think it would be. It would depend on how they are getting entries and hotels paid for and the such. Those guys are shooters, just like us. Well...just faster...and more accurate. They've worked hard and deserve what they win.

But...we're only speculating here of course

--Lanzo

I think G-ManBart is talking about the rules for Federal Law Enforcement Officers & not for the military. To the best of my knowledge, all the military shooters can keep trophies, plaques, awards, gold medals, and other prizes. Over the many years I helped run major matches, in addition to the AMU Action Shooting team, I have handed awards & prizes to members of the Air Force Team.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

[uscbigdawg]

I inquired about an Army National Guard shooting team and have got blank stares. Contacting ARNG recruiting hasn't yielded better results.

Rich

[dqshooter]

It was my experience in the AF for 20 yrs that prizes won had to be reported to protocol and then they were awarded to the competitor after being cleared. Times have changed over the last couple of years but i do believe they get to keep what they win.

Alot of what these teams (mostly the AMU) do is promote the military way of life. They send alot of time on the road with other soldiers and of course in compitition, they also hold matches and have additional extra duties. They do a great job and if you have ever had the pleasure of meeting them, they are a great bunch. I know the Airforce team is permisive duty and not primary so they have to ask permision to go and I believe they forcast where and when for the year, most cost come out of their pocket. Roger Sherman is on the Af team and a great guy to talk to, I am sure he could and would be happy anyanswer any questions you may have.

God bless our Military and God comfort our fallen heros.

[G-ManBart]

I think G-ManBart is talking about the rules for Federal Law Enforcement Officers & not for the military. To the best of my knowledge, all the military shooters can keep trophies, plaques, awards, gold medals, and other prizes. Over the many years I helped run major matches, in addition to the AMU Action Shooting team, I have handed awards & prizes to members of the Air Force Team.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

Absolutely. We're allowed to keep trophies, plaques, etc, but "stuff" like guns, scopes etc would have to be turned in if we were on Uncle Sam's time...or so I have been told. Honestly, I think it's something nobody would notice until somebody with an axe to grind found out and decided to make an example of somebody.

The big difference for the military is that they're paid for 24/7/365 and not based upon an hourly basis per week. It's the same reason they get charged leave for weekend days and government civilians don't. For that reason I don't see any conflict with them keeping "stuff" that they win....it's not like they get paid enough to start with!

Next time I get back to Club Fed I'll talk to the guys there that shoot competitively and see if things have changed. R,

[Wakal]

The Air Farce gives me time off to shoot, but that is it. I do get to keep what I win, which is nice, but (unlike the Army) do not get to tool around in a "issue" truck or practice on the government dime

I have been working on building a "Air Force 3-Gun Team", but it seems that the budget for such frippery has been cut so far that all they can give me is time off (which is all I want anyway)...however, the current "Action Pistol" team captain will not allow a zero-cost 3-Gun Team. I am not sure why the Action Pistol guy is getting a veto on 3-Gun, but I'm still working on that

Alex

[dcarter]

I attempted to get a shooting team started for Cincinnati P.D. with no luck. I didn't even get an official "NO!" from the brass. I did get to speak with our patrol commander who told me he was worried about liability which is a bunch of crap. Our department sends our K9 units, S.W.A.T. and the mounted patrol to competitions all over the country with no problems so I don't know what the hangup is. I have not given up hope since we got a new patrol commander. I'm just waiting for the right time to hit him up with it.

[dqshooter]

Alex: Do RET USAf contractors Qualify to shoot on the 3 Gun team if it come to be. I wouldn't count on any supprt from the CAtion pistol team captain. I think he forgot what the premiss of the AF action pistol team was all about along time ago.

[abn-rgr]

We have a MO National Guard team. Not much support from the state, but we just kind of do our own thing.....

[remoandiris]

The Air Farce gives me time off to shoot, but that is it. I do get to keep what I win, which is nice, but (unlike the Army) do not get to tool around in a "issue" truck or practice on the government dime

I have been working on building a "Air Force 3-Gun Team", but it seems that the budget for such frippery has been cut so far that all they can give me is time off (which is all I want anyway)...however, the current "Action Pistol" team captain will not allow a zero-cost 3-Gun Team. I am not sure why the Action Pistol guy is getting a veto on 3-Gun, but I'm still working on that

Alex

The AF doesn't have a REAL action pistol team...or a REAL anything team for that matter. The best athletes they can muster, in any sport, get together for a short period of time and calls itself a team for whatever competition, then go their separate ways after the competition. Doesn't matter if it is softball, basketball, boxing, or shooting. That is the AF way.

I have never had a problem getting PTDYs approved in my current or prior unit. Doesn't cost the AF a dime, so the CC is o.k. with it. Now if only I could get time off and use of the base range to practice.

[BNorth]

The AF doesn't have a REAL action pistol team...or a REAL anything team for that matter. The best athletes they can muster, in any sport, get together for a short period of time and calls itself a team for whatever competition, then go their separate ways after the competition. Doesn't matter if it is softball, basketball, boxing, or shooting. That is the AF way.

I have never had a problem getting PTDYs approved in my current or prior unit. Doesn't cost the AF a dime, so the CC is o.k. with it. Now if only I could get time off and use of the base range to practice.

Same here...I'd just be happy with time off to practice!