kgunz11 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 LoL Roger, that's kind of pushing it to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 The safety being off and the gun in the holster isn't the problem. It's the action of placing the gun there with the safety off that is the problem. The safety infraction has already been committed. DQ. I'm trying to figure this out..... What part of holstering made the gun more unsafe than when the safety was disengaged in the shooters hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm52 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I won't mention the match and I wasn't a witness (and I may not be getting the entire story), but I heard that a person got DQ'ed at a major match for holstering his gun without engaging the safety. I understand the rules...I'm a RO and I've even RO'ed at this major match in the past. HOWEVER, if this happened it seems a little extreme. I think a warning before the DQ would have been appropriate. What say you? You gave your thought on the matter and asked members for theirs (whether it be a rule interpretation or opinion). The members have given you their thoughts on the matter. DQ was proper. No need to consider any other idea. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaky Dave Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 The rule is there for agood reason. If for any reason the hammer had fallen,there would'nt have been a second chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 In a COF when I feel I need that 21+1 I will barney a round in the chamber, apply the safety, eject the mag, insert 21 round mag, and then holster. Did you notice at what point I made safe? Do you feel safe with someone that doesn't apply the safety at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sci Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) The safety being off and the gun in the holster isn't the problem. It's the action of placing the gun there with the safety off that is the problem. The safety infraction has already been committed. DQ. I'm trying to figure this out..... What part of holstering made the gun more unsafe than when the safety was disengaged in the shooters hand? Maybe the fact that instead of pointing downrange at the berm, it would be pointed at the femeral artery while being holstered ITS A DQ Edited May 7, 2009 by sci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 In a COF when I feel I need that 21+1 I will barney a round in the chamber, apply the safety, eject the mag, insert 21 round mag, and then holster.Did you notice at what point I made safe? Do you feel safe with someone that doesn't apply the safety at all? The safety being off and the gun in the holster isn't the problem. It's the action of placing the gun there with the safety off that is the problem. The safety infraction has already been committed. DQ. I'm trying to figure this out..... What part of holstering made the gun more unsafe than when the safety was disengaged in the shooters hand? Maybe the fact that instead of pointing downrange at the berm, it would be pointed at the femeral artery while being holstered ITS A DQ +1 to what both of you guys said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Yes Sir! That way that shooter does not have to learn the painful lesson my friend did. Hopefully the DQ will sting him bad enough he will focus on the task at hand. If he can't get into the game enough to make his gun safe, what's next? OK...so I'm the shooter and I just realized that I holstered with the safety off; HOWEVER, before I can draw my gun again to put the safety on, the RO yells out "Stop - Your DQ'ed for holster a gun without the safety.."???? .....this in my opinion is a major DICK move because it does not give the shooter the opportunity to fix the problem. That gun in the holster with the safety off is no more unsafe than the gun in his hand two seconds before. I think the guy should have the opportunity to fix the problem. I was recently that very same "DICK" that you referred to. I had to DQ someone for that exact violation. Thanks for coming here to insult me in such a direct manner. You seem so passionate about arguing against the fact, that maybe you don't understand how easily a single-action 1911/2011 can go off when the trigger is moved a miniscule amount. Inserting one into a holster without the safety applied can induce exactly that amount of movement. If you actually do understand this, and still argue that a DQ for holstering that type of firearm with the safety off should get a hall pass, well, I'm prohibited from fully expressing what I think of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 So really, the safety violation occurs when the gun is pointed down towards the feet/leg area with the safety off BEFORE it is holstered. I'm just playing devils advocate. At first I thought a warning was appropriate and I was willing to consider that the rule might need revised. However, considering that this safety rule really has nothing to do with holster and everything to do with pointing a unsafe gun near the leg area...well that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 So really, the safety violation occurs when the gun is pointed down towards the feet/leg area with the safety off BEFORE it is holstered. I'm just playing devils advocate. At first I thought a warning was appropriate and I was willing to consider that the rule might need revised. However, considering that this safety rule really has nothing to do with holster and everything to do with pointing a unsafe gun near the leg area...well that's a different story. No, it has to do with the fact that a 1911/2011 with the safety off, being holstered, can VERY easily put a hole into the guy with his hand on the gun. It's not about sweeping. It's about AD's due to design limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 So really, the safety violation occurs when the gun is pointed down towards the feet/leg area with the safety off BEFORE it is holstered. I'm just playing devils advocate. At first I thought a warning was appropriate and I was willing to consider that the rule might need revised. However, considering that this safety rule really has nothing to do with holster and everything to do with pointing a unsafe gun near the leg area...well that's a different story. No, it has to do with the fact that a 1911/2011 with the safety off, being holstered, can VERY easily put a hole into the guy with his hand on the gun. It's not about sweeping. It's about AD's due to design limitations. Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) I'd like to offer some examples for ExtremeShot and please understand I'm trying to be respectful. If a shooter is running downrange and breaks the 180 as they pass a target, this is unsafe - correct? I mean even if their muzzle didn't cover a person this is still an unsafe act, right? If a shooter drops their firearm while loaded and while on 'safe' and it doesn't go bang, this is unsafe - correct? No person was hurt and the muzzle didn't even sweep a person. It could've gone bad but didn't, it's still unsafe though, right? ExtremeShot, you asked what was safe/or unsafe about holstering the pistol with the safety off. If the trigger had snagged on the holster with the grip safety depressed, the gun could've gone off. It's another situation that could've gone bad but didn't. I hope you can see that the situation is unsafe and the shooter is DQ'ed without doubt. Edited May 7, 2009 by ihatepickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtremeShot Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 I got it. I appreciate the comments. You have opened my eyes. Thanks again for the comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 We had 2 somewhat recent events out here where someone popped one off coming out of the holster. The exact state of the safety prior to the draw was not stated but the post event inspection of both firearms showed the thumb safeties were working perfectly. One just scared the hell out of everyone and the other, had it not been for a cellphone in the path of the bullet could of easily taken out a kneecap. As it stands the individual had a lengthy recovery from the soft tissue damage. Observing the event, safely resolving it and giving the shooter some time to think about how close they came to hurting themselves, those around them and the sport is nothing but good in my book. Chuck out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I'm going to add my opinion as a shooter with 2 AD's from my 1911. Both occurred when I slammed the mag home on a reload. Instant DQ, no questions, no discussions. Your shooter was lucky that he only had the safety off and an AD did not occur. Consider it a lesson. I was lucky, the pistol was pointed in a safe direction and the only casualties were the ceiling and my ego. We play with dangerous things. Safety CANNOT be comprised. And yes, the gun was repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ammo Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I shot the LaRue Tactical 3 gun match,, No USPSA rules. Stages that required a pistol. We would draw shoot the pistol at the appropriate targets Hot holster transitioning to the next gun. Rules are rules,, At our home club,, ( not a USPSA club) After The shooter looks in the gun,,, I look in the gun,,,, they point it at the berm,,, pull the trigger.. I would have made an on the spot correction,,, Before he went to re-holster. I now shoot a Glock,,,, thinking,,,,,,,,, if the gun was a 1911 type pistol,,,,, So I just went to check my .45,,,,, when the hammer is down,,, the safety will not go on. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) Edited May 7, 2009 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Now that is funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironb Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I did this the first time I holstered my sti grandmaster. i had been shooting an xdm 9mm that didnt have a thumb safety on it, so i had no idea i had to have the thumb safety on when i holstered the gun. the scary thing is, i think i holstered it a couple times before the RO caught it and said something. in hind sight, that was pretty scary. with a 3lb trigger the GM originally had, it wouldnt have been hard to cause an issue. Getting DQ'd might have made a bigger impact on me, but regardless, i never forget it anymore. The danger of putting a race gun with a light trigger in the holster without the safety on is very dangerous - especially if the grip safety had been disabled. (it was enabled at the time). yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eak Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Yep that is all i was going to add if the grip safety was disabled it could get ugly quick, right call was made. I have seen this infraction before unfortunetly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I'm closing this thread. I'm not deleting it, because it was a learning opportunity. However, Brian's Forum isn't the place to come to get on the "soap box" about something that happened that you don't agree with. And, the "DICK" comments...completely un-called for. - Admin CLOSED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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