Tom E Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I'm not sure I'd call it lousy course design but the 8 rd rule encourages 8 rd arrays. Seems to develop a mind set where the courses are laid out for convenient reloads at after 8 rds on target. I've been doing stages for indoors during the winter and we have space limitations and the 8 rd rule gets ignored regularly. 11 rds seems to work well. Seems to strike a balance. Folks who are used to 8 rd arrays have to think or are shooting empty. 11 even catchs limited guys with 20+1. I always thought relading was part of the game regardless of what division you're shooting. The guys who've spent >$200 per magazine to "buy" a score tend to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 On the other hand, just throwing the 8-round rule in the trash would make it even worse, because then the bad stage designers would go back to creating stages with a whole slew of targets that can all be engaged from one or two sweet spots. We've all seen that scenario at "renegade" matches where the 8-round rule is ignored.... Bad stages are bad stages. I've shot stages designed "8 rd neutral" that worked out the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin D Wolverton Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 i told the match director we need to petition for a open revolver class. the match director told me im one of only 3 idiots in the country with a dot sight on a wheel gun. i followed up with, name your match bring any of the guns hes classifed with and ill out shoot ya for a case of beer any day.... lol he walked away after that. but wow you got to know the guy, im proud of my open wheel gun. nothing like a smack in the face, by the range director. Some guys just can't take a joke... Like I'm the only one out there poking fun at him for his open revolver... Granted... I'm not a revo guy... I own one, but I've shot it maybe once in the 6 months I've owned it? Thats ok Chris... I had though about shooting open singlestack for awhile... 8 rounds with a dot... shooting major... ewww... Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 ........................Also, nobody who is seriously competitive on the national level is shooting minor or using speedloaders. Bubber is the closest we have to being truly competitive with a 686, and I think he would admit that he's just being stubborn about it. ............... I Stubborn? Me? Well ...Hell Yea!!!!! I have been known to have been plagued by a stubborn streak from time to time. Colbyjack I too have a Dot on my 8 shot. I shot it in open at the last Old Fort Match. I finished 11th out of 34 and about 69% of the Top open guy. Not to bad and still minor. Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 Also, nobody who is seriously competitive on the national level is shooting minor or using speedloaders. Bubber is the closest we have to being truly competitive with a 686, and I think he would admit that he's just being stubborn about it. So if I were to go to a national competition using a Ruger Alaskan loaded with .45 Colt and using speedloaders and be "seriously competitive" I would become somebody? What exactly is the criteria for being seriously competitive? I might have just found another hill to ice skate up. I don't think that the equipment determines who is seriously competitive, and to suggest such is in bad form. That is just me though, maybe the majority feels the same way you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Also, nobody who is seriously competitive on the national level is shooting minor or using speedloaders. Bubber is the closest we have to being truly competitive with a 686, and I think he would admit that he's just being stubborn about it. So if I were to go to a national competition using a Ruger Alaskan loaded with .45 Colt and using speedloaders and be "seriously competitive" I would become somebody? What exactly is the criteria for being seriously competitive? I might have just found another hill to ice skate up. I don't think that the equipment determines who is seriously competitive, and to suggest such is in bad form. That is just me though, maybe the majority feels the same way you do. Well, to some extent I guess we're all skating uphill just by shooting USPSA with revolvers in the first place, right? When I talk about being "seriously competitive on the national level" I mean shooters who consistently finish high on the list at major matches--shooters who are in contention to win the division if Jerry is not there, or capable of finishing 2nd immediately behind Jerry against a strong field. Those guys--the guys who take the competitive aspect of the match seriously and who aren't there just to mess around--are all running moonclip guns shooting major loads, because to do otherwise would create a competitive disadvantage which they would not consider acceptable. Of course, that's not to say that you can't have fun with other equipment options, or that you can't find your own specific competitive challenges that you find personally enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rather-B-Huntin Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Allowing an 8-shot in revo with ONLY the penalty of having to shoot minor is not a sufficient handicap. That makes about as much sense as wiping before pooping. If the "ONLY" penalty to an 8-shooter is minor scoring isn't sufficient, then please explain to me why SS Div. allows eight rounds for major and 10 rounds for minor?? I guess that isn't sufficient either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 "Allowing an 8-shot in revo with ONLY the penalty of having to shoot minor is not a sufficient handicap."That makes about as much sense as wiping before pooping. If the "ONLY" penalty to an 8-shooter is minor scoring isn't sufficient, then please explain to me why SS Div. allows eight rounds for major and 10 rounds for minor?? I guess that isn't sufficient either? A 6 shooter makes 5 reloads on a 32 rd stage, an 8 shooter can do it with 3, same as a 10 shooter. No, 8 rd minor for Revo isn't sufficient handicap to offset the six shooters extra reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 "Allowing an 8-shot in revo with ONLY the penalty of having to shoot minor is not a sufficient handicap."That makes about as much sense as wiping before pooping. If the "ONLY" penalty to an 8-shooter is minor scoring isn't sufficient, then please explain to me why SS Div. allows eight rounds for major and 10 rounds for minor?? I guess that isn't sufficient either? A 6 shooter makes 5 reloads on a 32 rd stage, an 8 shooter can do it with 3, same as a 10 shooter. No, 8 rd minor for Revo isn't sufficient handicap to offset the six shooters extra reloads. It all depends on stage design. On a 32-round field course, it's entirely possible that the stage can be broken down in such a way that those extra reloads can be made on the move, which would cost very little in terms of extra time--and in that situation, the faster reloads of the 625 in addition to the major P.F. scoring will tip the advantage back in favor of the 6-shooter. When Single Stack division was announced, several people on this forum proclaimed that 8 shots of major would never be able to win against 10 shots of minor. Obviously, that turned out to be completely wrong. I will agree that the difference we're talking about here in Revolver would be greater, but not nearly as much as some of you guys seem to think. The only time the 8-shooters would have a huge automatic advantage would be in matches where the designers set up tons and tons of 8-round arrays and very few options on how the stage can be attacked. I'll admit those matches do exist, but most of our major matches (Nats, most Area matches, most Level III matches, and many sectionals) tend to have stages that are better thought out. If USPSA ever decided to allow 8-rounders to compete with minor scoring, and assuming you owned a 627 and a 625 and shot them equally well, you would never truly know which gun would be advantageous until you saw the stages. And a lot of times, it would be very close to a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The only time the 8-shooters would have a huge automatic advantage would be in matches where the designers set up tons and tons of 8-round arrays and very few options on how the stage can be attacked. I'll admit those matches do exist, but most of our major matches (Nats, most Area matches, most Level III matches, and many sectionals) tend to have stages that are better thought out. If USPSA ever decided to allow 8-rounders to compete with minor scoring, and assuming you owned a 627 and a 625 and shot them equally well, you would never truly know which gun would be advantageous until you saw the stages. And a lot of times, it would be very close to a wash. I'm too used to seeing an endless series of 8 rd arrays. Your 4th of July match will make for a real good comparison, 6 shooters one day, 8 (and some 6) shooters the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I've been away from the forum and most of my regular shooting for a few(10) months due to the arrival of the new family member so I'm out of loop on what has been going on here. Has anyone else been shooting their 7 or 8 shot revo's in local USPSA matches? I've occasionally been shooting in L-10 using my (minor PF) ICORE loads but was thinking about using the 627 in production. I currently use a cup challenge holster so I need a new set-up to run in production. Is the Blade-Tech holster for the 625 open at the bottom? My 627 has the 6.5" barrel so I could use some ideas on which holster to use. Money is tight so a cheap holster is best. Any ideas would be appreciated! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino_aki Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 i told the match director we need to petition for a open revolver class. the match director told me im one of only 3 idiots in the country with a dot sight on a wheel gun. i followed up with, name your match bring any of the guns hes classifed with and ill out shoot ya for a case of beer any day.... lol he walked away after that. but wow you got to know the guy, im proud of my open wheel gun. nothing like a smack in the face, by the range director. Some guys just can't take a joke... Like I'm the only one out there poking fun at him for his open revolver... Granted... I'm not a revo guy... I own one, but I've shot it maybe once in the 6 months I've owned it? Thats ok Chris... I had though about shooting open singlestack for awhile... 8 rounds with a dot... shooting major... ewww... Frank Um, slight thread drift...shooting an Open singlestack would be like shooting any Open gun...10 round (170mm) mags in 45 cal and if you could get someone to make them for you possibly 15-16 in .38 Super Comp. Drift off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 John, congratulations and welcome back--we were wondering where you went! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.carden Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Way to go John......!!!! Say hello to Pam for me and Bonnie. Hope your both doing well..!!!!!! DanBagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Remind me again why we just don't shoot revolvers in revolver class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashvillebill Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Cuz alot of clubs don't show combined results. If you want folks to know you whooped them, you have to cross over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Threads merged. (thanks Cliff) - Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abs Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Threads merged. (thanks Cliff)- Moderator Ok, don't get your knickers in a twist, but are you carrying your moon clips behind your hip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrmn1 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Remind me again why we just don't shoot revolvers in revolver class? Hey Mark I think I am going to start shooting my revo in limited in steel so I can win ammo. Most of the time we don't have enough revo to get anything. However, if you look at my times won't be long and I will be winning overall for the match. That is my goal to do win overall with my revo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 John, congratulations and welcome back--we were wondering where you went! Way to go John......!!!!Say hello to Pam for me and Bonnie. Hope your both doing well..!!!!!! DanBagger Thanks! Things have been going well and we're expecting our second(and LAST) in August. I'm hoping to get back to a few major matches(IRC, USPSA Natl's) in 2010? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Remind me again why we just don't shoot revolvers in revolver class? I'm one of only two or three shooters in the area to attend local USPSA matches using a Revo and we rarely attend the same match. We have a local ICORE club that shoots once a month and draws 10-20 shooters but there are 6 monthly USPSA matches within about 1-2 hour drive. I like competing directly with the auto shooters in the same division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Remind me again why we just don't shoot revolvers in revolver class? Hey Mark I think I am going to start shooting my revo in limited in steel so I can win ammo. Most of the time we don't have enough revo to get anything. However, if you look at my times won't be long and I will be winning overall for the match. That is my goal to do win overall with my revo. If you hadn't let that little girl beat you , you could have done it last match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 So , if eveyone just wants more competition, or see how they rate against the autos. Just sign up in open class and equipment should be a mute point. Actually , I am just stirring the pot a little. But let me ask a question. If I enter in Revo class and compare my HF with others,,won't that let me see how I have done against other guns, Ltd,L10, etc.??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashvillebill Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Yes, but chances are slim that the will open up the revolver scores to see how they did against you. It's not enough to beat them, they have to know that you beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 So , if eveyone just wants more competition, or see how they rate against the autos. Just sign up in open class and equipment should be a mute point. Actually , I am just stirring the pot a little. But let me ask a question. If I enter in Revo class and compare my HF with others,,won't that let me see how I have done against other guns, Ltd,L10, etc.??? It certainly will. The clubs in my area give away prize point cards for winning or finishing 2nd or 3rd if there are enough shooters in a particular division and class. They're good for reduced match fees. It's a small incentive but if I can save 5 or 10 bucks on the match fee by beating a bunch of the auto shooters in their division, then why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now