Fitness for Shooting Sports

[shooterbenedetto]

P90x!

[Jake Di Vita]

That's great if you want to look good.

I want to perform good.

[Aglifter]

My guess at a good program (Admittedly, I used to be a powerlifter and strongman competitor, so its a bit of "If all you have is a hammer..."):

Snatch - very little work w. it, will make your hands noticeably faster.

Skip rope - this, along w. the snatch should improve foot speed/agility.

Use a thick bar for over-head work, etc. - more closely related to the size of a pistol grip. I realize crushers are popular w. shooters, but I don't think that's the ideal grip movement.

Now, I suspect over-head squats would help, but they're a bit tricky.

Maybe a lunge/split position snatch - the split snatch is the coolest lift, IMO, but it is somewhat difficult.

Sprints w. a sled - teaches you to keep accelerating while sprinting.

Possibly farmer's walk or yoke - they both tend to forcibly teach you a gait which keeps your upper body level.

[Jake Di Vita]

I like where your head is at. I personally don't like to sprint with the sled (I like using a sled mainly for recovery, ala Louie Simmons).

Gotta add deadlifts because they are good for your soul. Doing them double overhand or with a fat bar occasionally would also be fantastic grip work. You also can never go wrong with back squats. I guarantee overhead squats would help a lot...the older generations (especially those with 30+ years of little activity and bad posture) will likely have trouble with them...I think the split snatch is a great alternative.

Thick bar for overhead work is brutal. It's amazing how much your grip has to do with pressing motions.

Pull-ups are also something that shouldn't be neglected.

[John Thompson]

At this moment I'm doing Boring but Big 5/3/1 as perscribed by EliteFTS. My cardio is ala 8weeksout. At age 39 I'm not nearly in the shape I was at 25. I'm just trying to hold on to my youth, not rediscover it.

[Field]

sprints, pullups, squats, overhead presses, 1 arm dumbell cleans and various types of stabilizer abdominal work are probably my favorites.

[Neomet]

Warming up is huge, particularly for...cough.... middle aged weekend athletes. Torn achilles tendons are a typical and potentially devastating injury when you engage in hard acceleration without proper warmups.

[John Thompson]

My warmup takes longer than the actual workout.

[Dwain C. Baer]

While various types of cardiovascular exercise and weight lifting does help my overall shooting ability, I've seen many individuals that aren't in very good shape at all, but are excellent Master and Grand Master shooters .

[shooterbenedetto]

I use plyometrics, yoga, cardio,abs

legs, shoulders with lots of my own P90x dryfire!!

loss 25lbs also..I feel good and shooting well.

Edited July 28, 2010 by shooterbenedetto

[XRe]

I use plyometrics,

Just to be clear... what P90X calls "plyometrics" ain't... They're properly called "calisthenics"....

Dwain... nobody said that being fit will improve your shooting skills... but all else being equal, the fitter shooter will always win out over the less fit shooter...

[John Thompson]

I'm not going to bash P90X b/c if it works for someone then all is well. It's certainly better than the rambling disjointed overtraining nightmare that crossfit is. However I for one cannot follow along a video and I like to hit the weights. Plus the repetitiveness of videos would bore me to tears. Even the quick workouts in my basement is hard to do when the sun is out. I do like how P90x has actual programing with progressions and planned deloads. I hate the term "functional" but P90x does make you work in multi demensional plains of movement which can be helpfull with the body contortions we sometimes have to do in practical shooting.

Edited July 28, 2010 by John Thompson

[Jake Di Vita]

It's certainly better than the rambling disjointed overtraining nightmare that crossfit is.

When I read comments like these it's usually due to exposure to stupid trainers or a major lack of understanding. The fact that you say p90x is great if it works, but crossfit is rambling and disjointed regardless of whether it works makes me think the latter is the case. If you are referring strictly to the main page wods...that is but one expression of an idea...it is not the end all be all.

The biggest problem I have with CrossFit, is I don't think they emphasize strength enough generally. A proper mix between strength work and metabolic conditioning is fantastic for just about anyone that isn't specializing for sport...and it is still CrossFit.

[XRe]

It's certainly better than the rambling disjointed overtraining nightmare that crossfit is.

When I read comments like these it's usually due to exposure to stupid trainers or a major lack of understanding.

And it's usually the latter....

[Aglifter]

Gentlemen, there is no secret method, etc to training. It's been known since the Ancient Greeks - you have to work, you have to eat the right food, and you have to work some more.

There was, honestly, more reliable and higher quality training info around in the early 1900s than there is now - of course, we know have a multi-billion dollar "fitness industry", which is almost all hoakum.

Those endorsed products - odds are the pros on the ads aren't using them - almost certain they aren't using them exclusively.

You want a great, overall body, fast, and effective work out. Buy a tractor tire, used. Flip it end over end, once you can comfortably make it a few times across the yard, start going for speed. Once you can flip it as fast as you can for 45 sec, pause for 30, and flip it another 45 sec, find a heavier one. Spend 2 minutes doing this in the AM, before your coffee/shower, etc - see which gets you going more.

Buy a 2" barbell from Fat Bastard Barbell(Or Ironmind if you have the money), and start pressing things over your head. 2" dumbbells are also great. Try overhead squats.

Stones for bent over row, pressing, lifting, etc are also great.

That's it. You don't have to worry about "staleness" variety, etc, you just need to bust your ass, and clean up your diet.

If you want, take some old towels, twist them into a "rope" wrap them w. athletic tape, and hang them off a tree - do pull ups, hangs, abdominal work off them.

Adding in some yoga/other exercises to correct structural defects would also be good.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Aglifter

[XRe]

Gentlemen, there is no secret method, etc to training. It's been known since the Ancient Greeks - you have to work, you have to eat the right food, and you have to work some more.

It's pretty much as simple as that, too... Most don't want to do any of those three, though... TANSTAAFL, and all that...

[John Thompson]

The tone here is directed at me so I'll leave the crossfitters with these questions:

What professional certification does Glassman possess in anything?

What credible sport performance experts espose crossfit?

Do you guys really follow the advice of drunk fat guy for your training?

Here's a satire on the famous Black Box summit when Glassman fired everyone and made Rippetoe quit in disgust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-BnqtIF7kY

Edited July 28, 2010 by John Thompson

[Field]

you do realize that flipping a tire a bunch of times is kind of same thing as doing a bunch of reps of power cleans like those people would be doing in crossfit, im just trying to say that most of the stuff you are doing the same kind of thing

[John Thompson]

It's not the exercises it's the application of them. One of the few recognized physiology experts in Crossfit got thrown out b/c he suggested that crossfit gyms weren't training people how to do olympic lifts properly. Olympic lifts are very dangerous without proper instruction and in Crossfit if you pay a grand and take a two day seminar your considered good enough to coach them. I saw a crossfit workout of the day recently where you were supposed to do max effort pullups three days in a row. That's not programing, I don't know what it is but I do know it's not any type of programing you'll find in any other system such as Elite FTS 5/3/1, Rippetoe's 5X5, Joel Jamison's 8weeks out, Ross Enamait's 50 day challenges, squats and milk, etc, etc.

[John Thompson]

Give this a read, it sums up a lot about crossfit:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_investigative/the_truth_about_crossfit

Edited July 28, 2010 by John Thompson

[JeffWard]

Thank you all who have sent me PMs regarding training plans.

Honest answer, I just don't have the time...

I'm now the Director of Education for the National Personal Training Institute (NPTI), Tampa. I'm also building a Beach Bootcamp program under my own company, FitLife... AND training 2-3 private clients in the evenings.

I started this project, or writing a training program for shooters, then realized, like every other sport... the needs of one shooter can be completely divergent from the needs of another. One needs speed/power, but is already lean. Another needs to lose 20-30 lbs before even considering higher-level work. Some are 13, and want to reach GM before 18. Some are 70, and just want to keep shooting.

Like a lawyer... who has 100 "friends" who need "just a little legal advice", all for free... I need to draw a line.

If you are in the Tampa Bay/St Pete area, and you want to take your training and shooting to the next level, contact me. The consultation is free, and a couple of sessions too if you have doubts after we speak. If you need SPECIFIC guidance on your personal program, seek out a qualified professional in your area. Not just your local Gold's Gym, or Cross-Fit gym.

Any educated, certified, insured, EXPERIENCED trainer, who has worked with college/pro level athletes for any "skill position" sports, where agility, speed, balance, and power are critical (like running backs, receivers/D-backs, even golfers and infielders) should be able to adapt a program to our game. The skill sets are the same. Make sure the program is design for YOUR body, your fitness level, and your limitations.

Free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it...

Good luck, and great shooting!

Jeff Ward

NSCA CSCS

TW-CC A-CPT

Director, NPTI Tampa

[dirty whiteboy]

Gentlemen, there is no secret method, etc to training. It's been known since the Ancient Greeks - you have to work, you have to eat the right food, and you have to work some more.

There was, honestly, more reliable and higher quality training info around in the early 1900s than there is now - of course, we know have a multi-billion dollar "fitness industry", which is almost all hoakum.

Those endorsed products - odds are the pros on the ads aren't using them - almost certain they aren't using them exclusively.

You want a great, overall body, fast, and effective work out. Buy a tractor tire, used. Flip it end over end, once you can comfortably make it a few times across the yard, start going for speed. Once you can flip it as fast as you can for 45 sec, pause for 30, and flip it another 45 sec, find a heavier one. Spend 2 minutes doing this in the AM, before your coffee/shower, etc - see which gets you going more.

Buy a 2" barbell from Fat Bastard Barbell(Or Ironmind if you have the money), and start pressing things over your head. 2" dumbbells are also great. Try overhead squats.

Stones for bent over row, pressing, lifting, etc are also great.

That's it. You don't have to worry about "staleness" variety, etc, you just need to bust your ass, and clean up your diet.

If you want, take some old towels, twist them into a "rope" wrap them w. athletic tape, and hang them off a tree - do pull ups, hangs, abdominal work off them.

Adding in some yoga/other exercises to correct structural defects would also be good.

I agree with this, and it reminds me of a saying by Arthur Jones (Nautilus). "Very little in the fitness industry is actually new, and only a small amount of that which is new.. is useful."

[Jake Di Vita]

What professional certification does Glassman possess in anything?

What credible sport performance experts espose crossfit?

Do you guys really follow the advice of drunk fat guy for your training?

1) What difference does it make if it works? I don't have any certifications outside of Crossfit, does that mean I can't program effectively for people? Doesn't decades in the training industry with a ton of success trump conventional certifications?

2) Well I know the Florida Marlins recently adopted a CrossFit style of programming. I also know of several pro football players (retired and active) who are active crossfitters. At least 2 of which own and operate an affiliate. I also know that CrossFit style training was introduced into BUD/S. Would you like more examples?

3) The fact that you actually use this as an argument illustrates exactly how weak of an argument you have.

One of the few recognized physiology experts in Crossfit got thrown out b/c he suggested that crossfit gyms weren't training people how to do olympic lifts properly.

Who would this expert be out of curiosity?

Any educated, certified, insured, EXPERIENCED trainer, who has worked with college/pro level athletes for any "skill position" sports, where agility, speed, balance, and power are critical (like running backs, receivers/D-backs, even golfers and infielders) should be able to adapt a program to our game. The skill sets are the same. Make sure the program is design for YOUR body, your fitness level, and your limitations.

Here is where you lost me my friend.

I'd say with absolute certainty that most trainers who work with professional or collegiate athletes get credit for training the athletes when in the majority of cases highly above average genetics is more responsible for their conditioning than the trainer's programming.

Building a program for what we do really isn't all that complex. Short, intense bursts of power, long hours in the sun on your feet carrying gear is pretty much the highlights of what we have to train for. Olympic lifting, basic strength work, and a bit of conditioning for staying fresh throughout the day - do this under the hot sun as often as you can. These are all things that can be self taught with a little bit of gumption.

[Aglifter]

For what its worth, IMO, look for a personal trainer who's competed in a strength sport - or take one up. Honestly, its remarkably easy to get to know the "big boys" in powerlifting, olympic lifting, and strongman, and those people do work for free... (Well, sort of - don't waste their time, and recognize that the future world champions will get more help than a recreational competitor.) I just muddled along in college, and afterwards, and met several of the world's top strongmen, including Pfister, and trained w. quite a few world record holder, world champion, and national champion powerlifters.

Mike Johnston, in Columbia, SC, (last I heard, anyway - haven't talked to him in years) is an excellent trainer, I'm sure - but I trust that because of his performance as a strongman, and a lifetime of focus on strength and physical capability - not because he took a course.

Some certs are supposed to mean something, some mean he spent a couple weeks taking classes - I don't remember which is which, anymore.

I do remember the trainer A&M sent in to the powerlifting team to teach us the "safe" way to lift was a complete moron, who taught grossly unsafe techniques, and couldn't properly perform the lifts he was teaching.

An ability to properly C&J, Snatch, squat, and deadlift, would be a good way to judge a trainer... With the caveat, that if he's old, and been doing it forever, (Coach Pack), shut up, and listen to what he's saying.

Working out in the heat is an excellent idea - but, watch yourself if you're new to it, and don't work out in 100+ degree rain, or while wearing anti-perspirant.

Now, as for the cross-fit "swings" v. a tire - completely different. I've "swung" weights before - admittedly, not for reps, but as part of a "stunt", usually trying to get a weight in position to balance on one hand. Its a "cheating" exercise. It would almost be a good glute-ham exercise, if they went deeper, and were throwing the weight, allowing them to accelerate the entire time, but it has little similarity to a tire... Sort of.

Properly done, a tire flip consists of a quick burst out of the posterior chain, dropping down, and popping it to knock it forward, and prevent it from rolling, or bobbling on the way down. If you're tired, or the tire's too heavy for that technique, it's a pull to get your knee underneath it, dropping down, and then driving it over.

As I said, if they were throwing the weight, then there would be some similarity, but that swing is too limited a movement to be a proper exercise.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Aglifter

[jar]

CrossFit seems to vary a ton. There's some great people and some that are kinda cultish. Glassman seems to be a bit of an ass. That said, CF has made the huge accomplishment of getting a ton of people to realize that training takes hard work. So many 'trainers' at commercial gyms seem to set up programs for their ease and the client's comfort rather than the client's goals. Crossfit has made strides in changing that trend.