Picking a new powder for .40 Major

[Xfactor]

I've just been reading some old threads on recipes for .40 Major, and picked up some good info... but I'm still left with a few questions:

1.) What are the key factors that make one powder different/better than another for .40 Major? Here's what I've gathered so far:

• Burn rate - faster seems to elicit less felt recoil, but is less tolerant (i.e. blows up your gun easier if you load wrong - over charge, too short OAL, etc.)
  
• Temperature sensitivity - Some powders fluctuate (in terms of bullet velocity) more than others in varied temperatures
  
• Shape of individual granules - Ball-shaped granules seem more conducive to progressive press powder measures throwing consistent charge weights
  --> Are there factors other than burn rate that make a powder more prone to blowing up your gun if something goes wrong??
  --> What else am I missing?
  

2.) It seems like VV N320 has a great reputation for being safe, consistent/accurate, low-recoiling, clean, and only mildly temp-sensitive... albeit expensive and inconsistently available.

What other powders have proven to be similar in the factors above such that they perform comparably to N320? In particular, I've heard some good hype about the new Win AutoComp powder - has anyone had any experience with it yet?

Thanks,

[Joe4d]

add amount of smoke and dirt in gun.

This will depend on your bullet selection. Some powders generate more smoke with moly coated lead than others.

Also price and availability are important. N320 is good but I dont feel it's good enough to deal with the price and on again off again availability.

Burn rate safety can also be gun specific. Some shooters use Clays which is a great powder but I wouldnt reccommend it for a gun that cant chamber fairly long loaded ammo.

I currently have about 16lbs of Tightgroup which is great for jacketed but a little smokey for Moly lead. I shoot jacketed at big matches and Moly for practice and locals. I have only been bothered by smoke once that I recall. The Win Autocomp is way too slow for major in non comped 40. If I was building a Modified or open 40 I might look at it,

[Xfactor]

... The Win Autocomp is way too slow for major in non comped 40. If I was building a Modified or open 40 I might look at it,

In terms of pressure and burn rate, what is ideal for Limited or Production, as opposed to Open? And are all fast-burning powders a risk to blow up your gun if something goes wrong, or just some? (What are the other factors that make a powder less "tolerant" in this regard?)

[gm iprod]

I give my vote to N320 or TiteGroup.

But as stated you have got to really want N320 with the hassles of price and availability. You of course can cure the availability issue by buying a lot and making sure you don't run out. This of course beats the bank account into submission. But you have the powder you need and for the time needed.

TiteGroup is a little smoky. But 3/5ths the price of N320 and most often available, more importantly made locally.

[lynn jones]

try winchester super field.

lynn

[HSMITH]

Feel has a lot to do with it, getting a load that feels good to you.

Better performing than 320 is a relative thing, better to you might not be better to me. I HATE TiteGroup, but lots of people really like it. For a commonly available powder that seems to fit the bill try some E3.

[Tzygä]

My friends have tried VV330 and VV340 but they cameback for VV320.

I have tried VV340 but I use VV320 now.

Let us know if you find better one.

[John2A]

I have heard a lot of good things about N310 any one had any dealings with it. It seems that it is more available than N320.

[buddy_fuentes]

I'm done with VV N-320 when my last bit is gone. I don't mind paying the price for the powder because I feel it is superior for my use. I am tired of trying to find it. It was everywhere for a while, then it started drying up. I just bought some E-3 and am going to try Solo 1000, too.

Buddy

[RePete]

I'm with VV N320 or TiteGroup.

I only use 180gr Plated bullets.

[Bergie]

Solo 1000

[Mark K]

As stated in another thread: I just ran through this process. I have been shooting N340 since I started reloading, I have good availablility, it is clean burning, etc. I had moved from 200gr to 180gr to 165gr in 40SW, and from 115gr to 125gr to 147gr in 9mm. N340 worked for all of them.

However, I decided that at my (low) skill level, I wanted to go from the relatively sharp recoil of 165gr loads with N340 or N320, to a softer recoil. I like working with one powder for both calibers, if I can, and I was getting ready to make a big buy of powder and bullets. My friend had just worked up a very soft 9mm load with Clays, so I decided to investigate Clays. While researching where to start on loads, with my soft recoil requirement, several forum members suggest I try Solo 1000. After about 10 days of testing to find a load for each that would make Minor/Major in 40 and Minor in 9mm and allow the guns to function, I decided on Clays.

1) Clays is way cheaper than N340

2) Clays loads with 200gr bullets was really soft. Solo 1000 was nearly as soft. Both were clean burning

3) I can be cheap as long as cheap does the job. Clays loads were nearly 2 grains less than N340 and about 1gr less per give bullet weight for Solo 1000 (approximate guys, approximate). Given that there are 7000 grains to the pound, there was a huge savings by using Clays over N320/340 because of amount used and cost differential of the powder. Solo 1000 is the same price as Clays for powder, but I was using 1/3 less Clays.

VV is a premium powder and I love it, but I do not believe I am short changing myself by using Clays, while savings money (OK being able to afford to shoot more for a give amount of money).

That's my story, and I am sticking with it.

Mark K.

[STIshooter]

I have heard a lot of good things about N310 any one had any dealings with it. It seems that it is more available than N320.

I've been using 4.2gr of VV N310 under a 180gr moly coated bullet loaded at 1.2" OAL for several years. This is a VERY soft shooting load that is very consistent in my 5" STI Edge. NOTE: Do NOT use this load with 1.135" OAL!!!...the pressure will be much higher!

[G-ManBart]

... The Win Autocomp is way too slow for major in non comped 40. If I was building a Modified or open 40 I might look at it,

In terms of pressure and burn rate, what is ideal for Limited or Production, as opposed to Open? And are all fast-burning powders a risk to blow up your gun if something goes wrong, or just some? (What are the other factors that make a powder less "tolerant" in this regard?)

The ideal burn rate is going to depend on what bullet weight you're using more than anything. The faster the powder the more likely you are to run into problems. It's hard to predict which powders are going to be more tolerant than others. Some have a more gradual pressure curve than others. In most cases the faster the powder the more likely you are to run into a pressure spike near the max that causes problems.

There are two important steps to prevent blow ups. One is to ensure you look at each cartridge when you place a bullet on it so you can make sure there isn't a double charge. Second make sure you're getting plenty of neck tension on the bullet so that you won't get setback when the bullet feeds. Don't overly flare the case mouth for bullet seating and ensure your sizing die is adjusted properly. From time to time pull a loaded round, measure it carefully then push the nose onto something hard and measure it again to make sure the bullet isn't being set back. Do those things (assuming a safe load to start with) and you shouldn't have any problems. R,

[Xfactor]

... The Win Autocomp is way too slow for major in non comped 40. If I was building a Modified or open 40 I might look at it,

In terms of pressure and burn rate, what is ideal for Limited or Production, as opposed to Open? And are all fast-burning powders a risk to blow up your gun if something goes wrong, or just some? (What are the other factors that make a powder less "tolerant" in this regard?)

The ideal burn rate is going to depend on what bullet weight you're using more than anything. The faster the powder the more likely you are to run into problems. It's hard to predict which powders are going to be more tolerant than others. Some have a more gradual pressure curve than others. In most cases the faster the powder the more likely you are to run into a pressure spike near the max that causes problems.

There are two important steps to prevent blow ups. One is to ensure you look at each cartridge when you place a bullet on it so you can make sure there isn't a double charge. Second make sure you're getting plenty of neck tension on the bullet so that you won't get setback when the bullet feeds. Don't overly flare the case mouth for bullet seating and ensure your sizing die is adjusted properly. From time to time pull a loaded round, measure it carefully then push the nose onto something hard and measure it again to make sure the bullet isn't being set back. Do those things (assuming a safe load to start with) and you shouldn't have any problems. R,

Thanks Bart - I am very careful about eyeballing each round as I set a bullet on it to be seated, and although I am careful to get the right crimp, I will take your advice and do a periodic "set-back" check to ensure that nothing has gone awry.

It seems like the faster the burn rate, the softer the felt recoil... this is certainly a good thing, but does fast burning also generally translate to a faster cycling slide? (Which as I understand it, is desirable to get back on the sights ASAP)

For Limited, I will be using Zero 180gr JHPs, and the gun will be a 6" 2011 with a Schuemann bbl. I have a bunch of TiteGroup now (that I use for Production), but I was looking for a (better?) alternative for Limited, and I have had no luck getting any VV N320.

I like the idea of a soft-recoiling, clean-burning powder, but I just don't want to run too close to the danger zone with a powder that's is extremely intolerant of a minor faux pas.

[RePete]

The Win Autocomp is way too slow for major in non comped 40. If I was building a Modified or open 40 I might look at it,

Check out the article by Charles E Petty in the Hodgdon's 2009 annual Manual.

A good read, and has loads listed but, alas, none for 40S&W and the 180gr bullet.

[Tokarev]

I've had good luck with, off all things, Unique. It's not the cleanest but it's easy to get and pretty cheap.

[SA Friday]

... The Win Autocomp is way too slow for major in non comped 40. If I was building a Modified or open 40 I might look at it,

In terms of pressure and burn rate, what is ideal for Limited or Production, as opposed to Open? And are all fast-burning powders a risk to blow up your gun if something goes wrong, or just some? (What are the other factors that make a powder less "tolerant" in this regard?)

The ideal burn rate is going to depend on what bullet weight you're using more than anything. The faster the powder the more likely you are to run into problems. It's hard to predict which powders are going to be more tolerant than others. Some have a more gradual pressure curve than others. In most cases the faster the powder the more likely you are to run into a pressure spike near the max that causes problems.

There are two important steps to prevent blow ups. One is to ensure you look at each cartridge when you place a bullet on it so you can make sure there isn't a double charge. Second make sure you're getting plenty of neck tension on the bullet so that you won't get setback when the bullet feeds. Don't overly flare the case mouth for bullet seating and ensure your sizing die is adjusted properly. From time to time pull a loaded round, measure it carefully then push the nose onto something hard and measure it again to make sure the bullet isn't being set back. Do those things (assuming a safe load to start with) and you shouldn't have any problems. R,

Thanks Bart - I am very careful about eyeballing each round as I set a bullet on it to be seated, and although I am careful to get the right crimp, I will take your advice and do a periodic "set-back" check to ensure that nothing has gone awry.

It seems like the faster the burn rate, the softer the felt recoil... this is certainly a good thing, but does fast burning also generally translate to a faster cycling slide? (Which as I understand it, is desirable to get back on the sights ASAP)

For Limited, I will be using Zero 180gr JHPs, and the gun will be a 6" 2011 with a Schuemann bbl. I have a bunch of TiteGroup now (that I use for Production), but I was looking for a (better?) alternative for Limited, and I have had no luck getting any VV N320.

I like the idea of a soft-recoiling, clean-burning powder, but I just don't want to run too close to the danger zone with a powder that's is extremely intolerant of a minor faux pas.

If you are shooting 180 Zero JHP's and you already have TG, then the only reason to look for anything else is to tinker for a different feeling recoil. You already have what you need to reload high quality soft shooting rounds. There really is no BETTER reload for limited per se. There is only reloads with different recoil impulses. Here's a list of the more common powders being used out there:

Titegroup

VV N320

Solo 1000

Clays

Universal Clays

WSF

There are others out there, but if you can't get what you want out of the above list, you are looking for a white elephant. Clays is really soft, but bullet set-back is a problem with this powder in 40. Solo 1000 is awesome with lead/moly bullets. TG and VV N320 are probably the most commonly used and have a fairly safe track record, watch out for double charges. Universal Clays is a tad slower recoil impulse and probably the safest of the above for bullet set back and double charges. It takes more powder and very obvious if double charged. I don't have any experience with WSF, but suspect a similar standing to Universal Clays based on burn rate. WSF is reverse temp sensitive.

My opinion, load up those bad boys with TG and kill paper. I would start out at 3.9-4.0gr of TG and work up.

[Rocket35]

I have been using Alliant E3 as if late and like it. It is softer than Universal Clays and loads like regular Clays. But I think regular Clays is still softer feeling. YMMV

[soundwave]

try winchester super field.

lynn

+1 WSF has given me great results with 180 FMJ's

[barney88pdc]

I have some WSF and ordered some Montana Gold 180gr JHP. I have Winchester small pistol primers. These rounds are going to be for an STI Executive. How much powder and what OAL would you guys recommend. I am new to all of this so any help would be appreciated.

[lal357]

not to hi jack the thread but almost the same question starting to load 40s&w bought 180gr fp hunter supply bullets can find much listed for 180gr lfp bullets and my reloading manuals are old enough not to list 40s&w. hers some info on gun and powders that i have .

gun s&w 40ve (liked the feel better over a glock)

aa no.9

h110

green dot

red dot

blue dot

231

titegroup

aa2400

hercules2400

have others but to slow burn rate for a 4"barrel the 2400 probably to slow also

[mr renwick]

I haven't been in it for to long but i really liked the regular clays we tried.