Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I just saw a match entry form that said "Grandmasters Shoot for Free". I've been shooting for a while and have never seen this before - is this common? The match is pending Level III approval - is there a "quota" of GMs that must be signed up to obtain Level III status? Any other reasons for this aside from a desire to raise the level of competition and potentially attract National-level "talent"? Obviously, this is good news for the GMs out there, but just a new one on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) "Grandmasters Shoot for Free" Well, I guess I'll be paying at least double to shoot the match. Edited January 13, 2009 by sirveyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 There is not a quota of GMs to be a Level III (that I know of) - there is a minimum number that need to show and shoot in order for scores to count as a classifier. My understanding is that the match in question is hoping to lure in some GMs through that scheme - they're competing with at least one other big match that weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 There is not a quota of GMs to be a Level III (that I know of) - there is a minimum number that need to show and shoot in order for scores to count as a classifier.My understanding is that the match in question is hoping to lure in some GMs through that scheme - they're competing with at least one other big match that weekend. +1 I think its a good way to attract talent. That in combinations with classes makes it worthwhile for GM's to show up to your match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Seen it before at a certain local match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I know everyone gets kinda touchy about the GM perks, professional shooters cleaning up on prize tables, etc. but I think all match directors have to give it some consideration. For better or worse, all of us like to see the greats in action and I've seen first hand the buzz created by a "name" shooter or two coming to a match. It gives new and smaller matches a level of national/regional credibility in the shooting community that can be worth far more than a single entry fee. I will say that most of the times these guys are good guys and they don't ask for this sort of perk, it's given to them by a MD who has made the decision to go to that level to attract a big name. Oh, and don't think you're paying double as Joe C Class so some GM can shoot for free. If I give a perk to a GM to get them to my match, it's because that GM will likely draw ten, twenty, who knows how many more shooters whose entry fees will all go into the match and onto the prize table, and that's making the match better for everyone. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I don't think that would bring in ten or twenty shooters to a match. It would likely make 10-20 shooters go to the match you are competing against as they feel everybody at that match is being treated the same from GM to D class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Personally, I prefer shooting matches where there are a bunch of GM's. At Nationals and Area-2 there were at least two or three GM's on my squad and I can tell you that I absolutely learned something from each one of them and often more than one thing. Any time I can squad with shooters that good I think it's to my benefit. If a match can draw those folks to their match with a free entry fee I'm all for it. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint U66 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 What match are you guys talking about? I have never heard of anyone doing that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashvillebill Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Never heard of it, but I'm for it. The presence of GMs elevates a match in my mind. I would rather shoot with/against the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moverfive Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Never heard of it, but I'm for it. The presence of GMs elevates a match in my mind. I would rather shoot with/against the best. ......even if that means you have to shoot with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 That's a new tactic I've not seen before. Who knows, maybe it will draw some folks. If this is the match I'm thinking of, past results show just a few GM's attend - mostly Open. 2008-3 GM's 2007-4 GM's 2006-9 GM's 2005-7 GM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 It may sound like a good idea. But its just not right. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 It may sound like a good idea.But its just not right. Jim That's where I'm at too. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I don't know if they do it anymore, but years ago in motorsports some racers were paid start money. They were paid for showing up and racing, these were spectator sports and probably drew more than enough extra fans to be a profitable for the promoter. When I raced professional motocross, there were only a handful of riders that could win a moto at a national race. We were paid prize money based on finish, first few places paid pretty good, outside the top 5 or so we did not make enough to cover our entry and outside the top twenty you got nothing. At local races the same riders would usually win all the money, often riding two or three classes and winning money in each class. The very top riders got everything for free, bikes, transportation, expenses and were getting high salaries plus taking the prize money. The top competitors, amatures and pros, in most sports get special perks and win/earn the best, if not all of the prizes. Not saying it's right or it's wrong that's just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 It may sound like a good idea.But its just not right. Jim Same here .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) OK I put this down at the same time Cen Tex was doing his post. & shooting is not Motor X so just in rearguard to shooting I don't understand the "Its not rite" comment. I don't see any reason that other shooters have to pay more because a few GM' s shoot for no fee. What does it cost to add one more shooter to the event. I can not imagine a shooter making his way to the top with out helping many shooters on the way up. I have considered it many times for my club matches. In Fact Bull Frog Mouth kicks in rite now. " If a GM comes to my match" they will shoot for free. They still have to help just like everyone. The only reason I can shoot worth a darn is because of the M level and GM shooters that helped me. sometimes just by showing the way and sometimes by dragging me along like a dead weight. Guys Like Shred, Xre & Steve I remember shooting a match with Brian Enos in 1992 I should make out a check and send Brian his match fee with interest for that match. Edited January 14, 2009 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Oh, and don't think you're paying double as Joe C Class so some GM can shoot for free. If I give a perk to a GM to get them to my match, it's because that GM will likely draw ten, twenty, who knows how many more shooters whose entry fees will all go into the match and onto the prize table, and that's making the match better for everyone. The particular match that Doug is talking about is a random prize table match, as well - so its not as if this is a "show up free and take some stuff home from people who paid for it" kinda deal. Last year, I didn't shoot it cause I went to A6. This year, I'm staying closer to home, so I'm shooting it. I didn't even notice the entry fee thing until I went to send in my app - so in my case, it didn't do anything to sway a decision one way or the other. However, its usually a solid match, and deserves some attention from high profile guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I don't understand the "Its not rite" comment. I don't see any reason that other shooters have to pay more because a few GM' s shoot for no fee. What does it cost to add one more shooter to the event.I can not imagine a shooter making his way to the top with out helping many shooters on the way up. I have considered it many times for my club matches. In Fact Bull Frog Mouth kicks in rite now. " If a GM comes to my match" they will shoot for free. They still have to help just like everyone. The only reason I can shoot worth a darn is because of the M level and GM shooters that helped me. sometimes just by showing the way and sometimes by dragging me along like a dead weight. Guys Like Shred, Xre & Steve I remember shooting a match with Brian Enos in 1992 I should make out a check and send Brian his match fee with interest for that match. I second that if a GM comes to my match they can shoot for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupie Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) I think it is a good idea as long as they win. but if they shoot for free and an A class wins high overall the GM needs to pay the A class shooter entrance fee back to the A class shooter! edit: Actually a long those same lines, GM's shoot for free but have to pay the entrance fee of anyone A or below that beat them! Edited January 14, 2009 by rupie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I have never made a decision to go to a match because "GM's" would be attending. Personally, I think the GM's should pay the same as everyone else. This is much more of a participation sport than it is a spectator sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I have never made a decision to go to a match because "GM's" would be attending. Personally, I think the GM's should pay the same as everyone else. This is much more of a participation sport than it is a spectator sport. Actually this makes my point better than I could my self. It is a participation Sport , and any time I shot with a better shooter and I did not learn something Valuable,....it was my fault. So what is this match that started the thread ? I want to send them my entry cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Space City (its not really that hard to figure out ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I have no pro blem with GMs shooting for free as long as they RO or help setup etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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