What would you do ?

[ffl]

I have been listening so to speak to all the great and not so great suggestions.

I am looking at this from 2 different directions and it is sometimes hard to be objective when they tend to pull in different directions but here goes.

1. I like the Idea overall. anything to get more shooting sports going I am for.

2. I went to the Sunflower Classic Hand a great time shooting on Sun in the ICORE Match. From a sponsor point of view that is the reason I sponsored because of the Revo match. I met Carmoney, Doug, Cliff, Dave (again) and others there. That was the beginning of my almost total conversion to shooting Revo.

3. Carmoney had the B2B in Iowa and we (Snubby, Little FFL, Little Snubby) made the trip and had a absolute blast. We were all disappointed that those matches were not around anymore.

4. From the sponsorship side. We have made a decision (due in part to the actions of USPSA and their president) to not sponsor any USPSA events. However, if there was a Revo Nats. and it was run by someone other than USPSA I would consider sponsorship.

5. I think the most important thing is public perception and marketing.

[Tom E]

How about a bowling pin match?

[cliffwalsh]

I'm with Mike and Dave on the boycott. I don't like it at all.

I would be down with a match like the classic. Dave is right on about establishing the match first. If you want it to be the nats, it needs to prove itself worthy. I think the USPSA/ ICORE is the way to go. They are run by similar rules and strategies.

See you at benning Hop.

Edited December 3, 2008 by cliffwalsh

[S&WIowegan]

I would love to see a stand-alone national USPSA revolver match, but not a boycott. A boycott would give Voigt all the reason he needs to kiss us goodby.

I think the best chance we MIGHT have of getting something going is to try a back-to-back with the Single Stack Classic. I don't think PASA Park is collecting much rent these days so they might be receptive. I don't know if Heinie and Kluver would need/want to be involved. It wouldn't be unreasonable to go after their match and reset stages to some extent.

I would be more than willing to work/help on this.

Bob.

A16841

[steel1212]

I would love to see a stand-alone national USPSA revolver match, but not a boycott. A boycott would give Voigt all the reason he needs to kiss us goodby.

I think the best chance we MIGHT have of getting something going is to try a back-to-back with the Single Stack Classic. I don't think PASA Park is collecting much rent these days so they might be receptive. I don't know if Heinie and Kluver would need/want to be involved. It wouldn't be unreasonable to go after their match and reset stages to some extent.

I would be more than willing to work/help on this.

Bob.

A16841

I think if you go back to back with the SS nationals your going to lose shooters one way or the other. I think a lot of your Revo shooters 2nd guns tend to be 1911s. Your 1911 guys, me, are going to shoot SS nationals if there. Now if they aren't together that leaves us 1911 guys to shoot something else, revo. Its kind of the reason you don't have Open and Limited nationals togther. The stages would make sense but your making people choose and most shoot both if they are die hard race gun. It would be great if each had its own seperate nationals but I think it wouldn't be cost effective to do so.

After I have thought about it I think Boycotting nationals would be a bad idea also. The less you have show up the less reason our current pres has to keep a division. If you do make this match happen and it takes off like SS nationals though...then you will pull the shooters in!

[slflr]

Edit to add:

Please vote for one type of match (choice 1 USPSA only, choice 2 USPSA/????, Choice 3, USPSA/ICORE/IDPA)

Hop

Hop,

I'm sorry. I voted before I read the instructions. I voted yes for all three matches. Thought it was a great Idea that you were proposing three more BIG revolver matches.

I don't think much about boycotts unless Rosie O was working the match. We need more shooting, not less.

[Mooney]

...and to clarify my earlier post, I am also NOT for a boycott. If it were doable with blessings, sweet. however, in these times, we do all need to stick together.

Now, if there were an "East Coast Steel" Championship or ICORE that was announced WAY early, that would be great.

Unfortunately, my vacation bid goes in tomorrow and I am again guessing how to lay claim so that I can make at least a major this year.

[Carmoney]

I would be down with a match like the classic. Dave is right on about establishing the match first. If you want it to be the nats, it needs to prove itself worthy.

Very well put, and upon reflection, I agree. First things first.

[Matt Griffin]

I would love to see a stand-alone national USPSA revolver match, but not a boycott. A boycott would give Voigt all the reason he needs to kiss us goodby.

I think the best chance we MIGHT have of getting something going is to try a back-to-back with the Single Stack Classic. I don't think PASA Park is collecting much rent these days so they might be receptive. I don't know if Heinie and Kluver would need/want to be involved. It wouldn't be unreasonable to go after their match and reset stages to some extent.

I would be more than willing to work/help on this.

Bob.

A16841

I think if you go back to back with the SS nationals your going to lose shooters one way or the other. I think a lot of your Revo shooters 2nd guns tend to be 1911s. Your 1911 guys, me, are going to shoot SS nationals if there. Now if they aren't together that leaves us 1911 guys to shoot something else, revo. Its kind of the reason you don't have Open and Limited nationals togther. The stages would make sense but your making people choose and most shoot both if they are die hard race gun. It would be great if each had its own seperate nationals but I think it wouldn't be cost effective to do so.

After I have thought about it I think Boycotting nationals would be a bad idea also. The less you have show up the less reason our current pres has to keep a division. If you do make this match happen and it takes off like SS nationals though...then you will pull the shooters in!

I think what he's saying is to do both, a la the LPR nationals or O/L10. SS on Saturday/Sunday, Rev on Tues./Wed. It could work.

H.

[steel1212]

I think what he's saying is to do both, a la the LPR nationals or O/L10. SS on Saturday/Sunday, Rev on Tues./Wed. It could work.

H.

If that is the case, then hells yeah!!

[Tom E]

I know the place to host a match capable of the number of stages mentioned and have ran it by the USPSA representative of that club. He said it's doable with lots of cooperation.

I've contacted some of the people to get this done, they seem to want to try.

Hop

Kind of sounds like Hop may have facilities available where we could do this (low budget maybe?). Do we want USPSA involved? I suspect their involvement would rule out any possibility of a USPSA/ICORE rules/scoring mix which I think could be desireable as it would allow the 8 shooters and the 6 shooters which could help draw shooters and give us flexibility. The 8 shooter / 6 shooter issue keeps coming up and this could be a great experiment and an enticement to come out and shoot..

Edited December 4, 2008 by Tom E

[pskys2]

Probably would be a USPSA-ICORE on different days, maybe make it an ICORE Regoinal? Make the USPSA Revo Match a Tournament with slots up for grabs (Slots may not be possible for a single gun competition though) and I Know you'd get some extra shooters.

I'd think stick with the Rules of the Game, USPSA for the USPSA part (no changes) and ICORE for ICORE part.

Whatever you do don't try to make it low budget, if you're thinking of the future.

You will have to get big sponsors, if the prizes are 1st rate it will cause a lot of buzz and the next year will see a doubling (at least) of your participation. My guess is the 1st year would be 50 - 80 maximum (plan for more, be optomistic) but if it's a GOOD Match and has LOTS of prizes the next year would be the hardest. Because if you fail to deliver in the followup it will die and never come back.

So whoever decides to try it, plan on a 3 year committment. And good luck to all.

I'd be in to shoot, design some stages, help with teardown and maybe a bit of setup but the core needs to be close as the setup would take much more than a day.

I'd like to make another recomendation, lets not bash the USPSA leaders. They have the whole to worry about and mistakes will be made. It seems to me that USPSA's trend has been to grow our sport by expansion. The numbers point to where the attention will be and I don't think any particular firearm is deliberately singled out as more worthy by the leadership. The competitors do that and personal preferences will always rule.

It seems by the Poll Results a good bet would be a Fri.-Sat. USPSA Match and a Sun. ICORE Match all shot in a day. Or maybe a Thur. ICORE and a Fri.-Sat. USPSA Match, all shot in a day, with a Make Up/Shootoff/Prizes/Teardown on Sunday?

Edited December 4, 2008 by pskys2

[Resjudicata]

I tried to vote but the forum seems to have a problem with me voting.

I would be all for a dedicated big USPSA Revo only match. As much as I love shooting revo, if it is packaged with Limited then I will always choose Limited because that is my main focus. However, at this stage in my shooting I am more likely to try and plan for and pay to shoot this big USPSA Revo only match than to try and got to the Limited Nats. I think the revo match would be a good break for me in the shooting season and a good reason to go out and remind myself that shooting is supposed to be fun.

BTW, like Dave and others said, don't do the boycott thing. That just seems like sour grapes and makes the sport look bad.

Keep in mind that SS has the same problem. Race gunners wouldn't shoot SS either if it were packaged with the other divisions that they primarily shoot. However, when it is seperate we see that it has a good draw of the big names and not so big names.

Also, I like the idea of doing it back to back with an ICORE regional. However, if you do that then try to condense it into as few a days as possible. I for one would rather shoot my ass off for two or three days then to string it out like with the Open and Limited Nats.

Chris

[michaels]

THE NATIONALS – as done by me….

Friday – show up into Tulsa, most of the registration is done via mail, you are pre registered. Just pick up your labels and sign the waivers. No lines to stand in.

Sat/Sunday, Open guns only, 17 stages + chrono. Awards that night at the range.

Monday/Tuesday, Limited guns only, 17 stages + chrono. Awards that night at the range

Wednesday/Thursday, Production guns only, 17 stages + chrono. Awards that night at the range

Friday/Saturday, limited 10 & Revolver guns only, 17 stages + chrono. Awards that night at the range

Get out of Tulsa on Sunday

Spend a week, shoot in as many divisions as you want, pay full price for 1 division, rest of them at 1/3 cost.

You will get discounts for lodging in most hotels if you book a room for a week, you still have time to get home on Sunday.

The Range Officer staff could be slightly reduced if the palm scoring is used. We the shooters do the work anyway. They could try it with one CRO to run the timer, one RO to work the palm and we the shooters pick up the slack.

If you’re only going to shoot one division, then you’d only need to be there a day in advance, register and be ready at 0730 to shoot, shooting would stop before dark, not like the last 2 years…if it rains, you shoot in it, no make up days.

Last year too much time was spent waiting for squads in front of you to shoot stages, the matrix didn’t work as well as planned. Having just one divisions on the range for those two days would allow smaller squads and no backups.

I’m against any boycotting of what we have in place now. But it does need some redesigning to make it work. I’ve gone to Tulsa the last 2 years, and I’m pretty sure that I won’t make that trip again until some changes get made. If you’re going to have a match hotel, get a place that can provide a shuttle service to and from the range, and doesn’t allow lounge singers in their bar/restaurant…..

Michael Sousa

[ffl]

if you are wanting a ICORE Regional at this time there is a possiblity of getting a Mid-west Regional because that match is still on hold due to mike selling his business.

I like the idea of a uspsa/icore match I agree with dave on keeping the scoring different.

if you are looking for sponsors for the ICORE portion. We would like to be the first to sign up. Let me know.

Talk to the Icore board members, or even Elliot or Annyette they can help.

david

[ffl]

THE NATIONALS – as done by me….

I’m against any boycotting of what we have in place now. But it does need some redesigning to make it work. I’ve gone to Tulsa the last 2 years, and I’m pretty sure that I won’t make that trip again until some changes get made. If you’re going to have a match hotel, get a place that can provide a shuttle service to and from the range, and doesn’t allow lounge singers in their bar/restaurant…..

Michael Sousa

+1 on the format

did they let Cliff sing again :roflol:

Edited December 5, 2008 by ffl

[Wideload]

My $.02 (for what ever that's worth, given the current economy...)

Agree with others -- No need to Pi$$ off any established entities or get into a Pi$$ing contest by scheduling a match over an established Nationals or Regional event. Want to cultivate shooters to come out with their revos and not force them to pick which match to go to.

Would be cool if this match can piggy back off of an existing event as proposed by Michaels. If not, pick a single venue -- USPSA/ICORE (or even IDPA as far as that is concerned) ... AND really focus on making it a premiere event. Quality Stages, awards and event logistics that will get people wanting to sign up for the next year's match after shooting this one.

[Matt Griffin]

I don't know that you can pull off 8 stages a day every day with four awards and results without any time to rest. Unless you have three or four dedicated crews for the entire week.

H

[Tom E]

Want to cultivate shooters to come out with their revos and not force them to pick which match to go to.

That's the problem we have. When there's a choice not many of us make revolver the 1st choice. If there's a match conflict we lose.

[pskys2]

I don't know that you can pull off 8 stages a day every day with four awards and results without any time to rest. Unless you have three or four dedicated crews for the entire week.

H

And a good reason to pick 1 format.

My vote USPSA Revolver Tournament Level II.

12+ Stages over 2 or 3 days, being shot either over 2 days with an option for a limited number of 1 day squads.

Maybe a Thu-Sat event with awards Sat. Nite? Then give everyone a chance to hang over or get home Sunday.

While I find ICORE fun, it does have 1 BIG Event, and a smattering of Regionals, already.

[Tom E]

My vote USPSA Revolver Tournament Level II.

12+ Stages over 2 or 3 days, being shot either over 2 days with an option for a limited number of 1 day squads.

Maybe a Thu-Sat event with awards Sat. Nite? Then give everyone a chance to hang over or get home Sunday.

While I find ICORE fun, it does have 1 BIG Event, and a smattering of Regionals, already.

+1 With a Bowing Pin match as a side event.

[Resjudicata]

I don't know that you can pull off 8 stages a day every day with four awards and results without any time to rest. Unless you have three or four dedicated crews for the entire week.

H

And a good reason to pick 1 format.

My vote USPSA Revolver Tournament Level II.

12+ Stages over 2 or 3 days, being shot either over 2 days with an option for a limited number of 1 day squads.

Maybe a Thu-Sat event with awards Sat. Nite? Then give everyone a chance to hang over or get home Sunday.

While I find ICORE fun, it does have 1 BIG Event, and a smattering of Regionals, already.

Good thought, Dave. If I understand it right, the big ICORE event does get some big timers there along with a lot of others. So, evidently it is possible to get a lot of people to show up to a revolver only event.

So, maybe a big USPSA revolver only event this year that you try and parlay into the USPSA Revolver Only Nats for next year?

How about holding it in the northern peninsula of Michigan in November? I wonder if that would open up the possibility of a regular human winning first place?

Chris

[Wideload]

How about holding it in the northern peninsula of Michigan in November? I wonder if that would open up the possibility of a regular human winning first place?

Chris

This could open up a whole new venue of sponsors interested in promoting extreme weather gear and maybe even television coverage on one of the shooting shows. The tag line might start Wheel Gun Extreme -- where real - insulated - shooters roll their revolvers along the coast of Lake Superior...

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Oh heck yeah....I would have to drag a certain RGS with me though, even if he were to be kicking and screaming the whole way

Besides, it's nicer (people and places) on your side of the M-D line

Well, if the young un goes, I guess I will have to just to keep him out of trouble. I don't care what the format is as long as the round counts are high enough to make a trip worth while.

I had pretty much given up hopes of going to any more major matches, but this sounds good. Besides, you guys need a designated driver and I don't drink

[Pin Shooter]

+1 for a regionals type match in the Midwest. It is ashame that it won't happen in 2009.