Why don't women shooters do better?

[uscbigdawg]

The biggest hurdles that is see to people's shooting...male or female...are mental.

I have to agree with Flex. In talking with one of the sports' top women, she and I were talking about who's on the US Team (this was back in March/April). She made a comment, that rings in about this topic in that the team is made up of enough girls that grew up playing with the boys and so they have that little extra something. I'm paraphrasing, but y'all get the idea.

So, the difference can basically be as simple as societal.

Rich

[carinab]

I could really care less about the gender of a shooter. A shooter is a shooter. I just think that the ladies who want to compete for HOA are doing themselves a disservice by shooting in a squad full of other ladies rather than with the other shooters who have a shot at winning the match.

I agree with you...However if you make top 8, you are put in the ladies squad regardless of what's on your squad request sheet. The exception is if you are ride sharing or have a sig other whose shooting...but even then it's not a guarantee. Sometimes they'll put you both on the same schedule or sometimes the male sig other will end up on the ladies squad. Just ask Jerry how many times he's shot with the "broad squad."

[Viggen]

It's safer to rant and rave about the elections than it is to say anything non-PC on a gender question.

[kgunz11]

I could really care less about the gender of a shooter. A shooter is a shooter. I just think that the ladies who want to compete for HOA are doing themselves a disservice by shooting in a squad full of other ladies rather than with the other shooters who have a shot at winning the match.

I agree with you...However if you make top 8, you are put in the ladies squad regardless of what's on your squad request sheet. The exception is if you are ride sharing or have a sig other whose shooting...but even then it's not a guarantee. Sometimes they'll put you both on the same schedule or sometimes the male sig other will end up on the ladies squad. Just ask Jerry how many times he's shot with the "broad squad."

I shot in the ladies super squad at Area 6. Jerry and David Ball were right there with me. I learned quite a bit from Lisa, Eva, Jane, and Kay. They are very humble and willing to talk and offer any advice you might seek. I had a great time!

[Flexmoney]

The biggest hurdles that is see to people's shooting...male or female...are mental.

I have to agree with Flex. In talking with one of the sports' top women, she and I were talking about who's on the US Team (this was back in March/April). She made a comment, that rings in about this topic in that the team is made up of enough girls that grew up playing with the boys and so they have that little extra something. I'm paraphrasing, but y'all get the idea.

So, the difference can basically be as simple as societal.

Rich

I didn't say societal...at all. While there is something to that, I believe in the individual and there ability to adapt and overcome.

[Bwana Six-Gun]

I'll chime in here for what it's worth. I think a lot of it boils down to dedication in younger shooters and distractions. While many of the top Ladies are close to making GM, they are fighting an uphill battle against numbers. For the new shooters, they have other things that take priority. We have had a couple of young ladies start out with us and progress rapidly, but then college or in some cases getting a job to make a living begins to interfere and they can't keep up at the same level and thus don't progress. Hopefully, they will pickup where they left off and progress when things allow, but it unfortunately for women there are more things that hold them back, ie. caring for family, etc.

Sometimes you just have to make a choice.

just my .02.

BTW, I have been smoked by ladies many times in many shooting sports, IPSC, Skeet and NRA Silhouette.

[gb32]

Very interesting topic. I don't really know any of the top women shooters but I am very familiar with a dedicated female competitor who happens to be my wife. We met when she asked for some lessons "on the running around shooting you do". She was taught by her father who was a bullseye shooter and I have been working with her for a year (and married to her since May).

She is currently a D class Production shooter but should be a C after the next rating period. Her regular practice schedule is twice a week with at least 2 monthly local matches. I agree with Flex when he says it is mainly a mental issue which holds women back. I am constantly reinforcing to her how well she is doing. She shoots very accurately but at the expense of some speed. She is making improvement in this area though and I think it will be a major breakthrough for her. Also, I have convinced her to ignore other women and compare herself to all competitors. I don't treat her as the "little woman" when we are at a match. I'll ask her if she has a plan and have her explain it to me. Usually the only suggestion that I might make is shooting while moving versus posting up on an array. Otherwise I stay out of her way.

I've taught two previous wives to shoot, both who competed as well. Those women shot, this one is a shooter. I believe there is a big difference between the two and the latter can be few and far between.

Just my thoughts, Gary Byerly.

[JasonK]

I could have just as easily titled this post "Why are there no women GM's?" except I didn't know that until this thread. That is exactly the kind of core to this question I was trying to get at. There has been some thread drift that can be summerized as, male Y down in the pack got beat by female X down in the pack. So what. Some M class or below man got beat by some M class or below woman. Hardly noteworthy.

There are ZERO lady GM's!!! Seriously, I had no idea. Top lady Open shooter in the WORLD came in at 70.58% It would be different if there were a situation like in revolver where there is a Jerry Miculek type that dominates by tens of percentage points consistently. There were nine other shooters that came within less than 10% of Grauffel. None of them stand up to pee. (little joke please don't flame me too badly!)

I'm going to split off this topic because I just didn't frame my question very well.

Did you know there has never been a Lady GM?

edited to add link to new topic

Edited November 5, 2008 by JasonK

[shred]

I'm going with the numbers. A few years ago I finished right next to the top lady at major matches, whether it was Athena at the Steel Challenge, Kay at Nationals or Gabrielle at the WS in Ecuador or whatever. I know what it takes to shoot at that level-- and what it takes to get to the next level, it takes a heap more effort, time, money and natural ability--- all the ladies I know have regular jobs and responsibilities and all that outside of shooting.

I guess my point is there's a couple dozen guys in the US around that ability level, maybe more and just a very few women. The odds of taking that next step are lower just due to sheer numbers.

[SA Friday]

The only woman how has ever won any pistol shooting competition outright (beat all the men and all the women) is Randi Rogers, and that was SAS. She now shoots USPSA and is sponsered by Glock. Last I knew she was a full time College student. I don't know if she has graduated yet or not.

As I think there are many men out there that could make GM if they had the time and resources to fully devote to shooting, this is IMO the key factor that holds women back as well. Men simply have the numbers advantage in this sport, so you see a lot more fully dedicated men shooters. Those completely dedicated shooters have the ability to push the GM envelope further out of reach. I don't think this fully explains the anomoly of no female GMs, but I do think it's the largest influencing factor.

Edited November 5, 2008 by SA Friday

[Jake Di Vita]

to get to the next level, it takes a heap more effort, time, money and natural ability-

I was with you till you said natural ability...

[shred]

to get to the next level, it takes a heap more effort, time, money and natural ability-

I was with you till you said natural ability...

Yeah, that wasn't well said.. I'm the first to admit I have around zero natural ability... so, I think I meant "some combination of...", but it's been a few Bintangs as it's 11pm in Bali

I am now a little above the current level of the top ladies and know what it would take to go yet higher, but haven't put together the what-it-takes to do it. What it took me to get where I am now was a lot of resources for somebody with a career and family and so on.

I'll also add that a lot of the top ladies shoot a lot of the big matches.. which do very little for a shooters' classification percentage.

[zhunter]

I'll also add that a lot of the top ladies shoot a lot of the big matches.. which do very little for a shooters' classification percentage.

VERY true

[cag]

I was looking at the World Shoot scores and something I have noticed previously struck me again. Shooting has little to do with size or strength and is more about coordination, reflexes and concentration so why do the women shooters finish so far back? Age doesn't seem to be a large factor either.

No names since I don't intend this to be personal. I also don't know any of these people and mean no slight.

Standard:

High Lady came in 67.12%. High junior came in 81.28% and High Senior came in 89.72%. High Super Senior was at 69.81%.

G'day all. The above mentioned 67% was me. I will try and give you my thoughts on why I personally can't yet keep up with the guys.

1. First of all here in Australia, IPSC is a hobby and nothing more to the majority of competitors. It's a weekend game and once the match is over the gun goes away in the safe and gets pulled out again 7 days later. Maybe that's a slight exaggeration...... I occasionally practice when other committments are fullfilled( ie: housework, real work...more housework, paying the bills) I don't think Australia has a single professional IPSC shooter??? let alone a female professional.

2. I have only been shooting for 2 years in total and IPSC for the last 18 months. Hopefully with more time in the sport the scores will rise. I didn't start shooting til 28 years of age. (I wish I had found this sport earlier in life!)

3. Although most of us don't like to admit it, we tend to be slower than the guys and I'm not just talking about foot speed. Check out the guys split times on a bank of targets compared to ours. Mose guys have natural aggression, whereas for me I have to work hard to shoot aggressively.

Maybe it's just me but I have a hard time pulling the trigger until I have a damn good sight picture. I'm not an instinctive shooter which many men seem to be. Again with practice this is getting better and better all the time.

4. Again for me comes down to location, location, location. This year I have competed at 1 level 3 and maybe 5 level 2's in the lead up to the world shoot. If I want to compete more regularly at high level matches I would have to fork out thousands of dollars in air fares to get to the other side of the country.

5. We have crappy gun laws in Australia. No .40 cal and only 10 round magazines. Until December 2007 I was shooting a 9mm. Now I'm shooting a Major .357SIG Infinity. The World Shoot was the first match where I'd ever used hi-cap mags. It does take some getting used to.

Ammo for us is probably double the price of what you pay in the US and buying a gun puts a serious dent in the bank balance. ( my Infinity cost me around AUS$5000 or about US$3500) Then there are the mags at AUS$165 each.

Practice in Aus is expensive!!!

6. We don't have any formal advanced training programmes over here for IPSC. You want training you do it on your own or with a couple of mates from the local gun club.

That's about all I can think of for now but I'm sure there is much more. I would love nothing better than to be able to keep up with the best guys in the world but unfortunately this sport is not a viable profession in my part of the world.

I have to be content with doing the best I can with what I've got and working my butt off up til the next world shoot to try and defend my title.

Cheers and thanks for listening

Claire

[JThompson]

Congrats Claire!!

[cag]

Congrats Claire!!

Thanks!