MY 625 A Hunting Gun ?

[MichiganShootist]

I have a VERY well tuned 625 (thanks to my shooting buddy Gary Cuttitta) that has won a lot of IDPA and USPSA matches and I was thinking... if the gun (and I) are good enough for head shots on paper targets......

Why wouldn't that combination be more than adequate to take white tail deer at moderate ranges???

I hunt in very thick Northern Michigan woodlands and swamps and take 90% of my deer with a bow from a tree stand... so I was thinking that some Federal primed 230 grain hollow points might be a great game getter in those conditions.

Do any of you other wheelgunners use your competition guns to gather venison????

[MI_Packer]

I took my 627 loaded up with 158 grain XTP's (just under 600 ft/lbs) for this little Doe season we are in now. Ended up taking a large doe at 72 yards with the slug gun. I was thinking I would limit my .357 magnum shots to bow range. For some reason I hadn't thought of taking my 625 with me.

Last year I took two Does with my .460 Magnum. First one at 67 yards and the second at about 30 yards. The first one ran straight at me and dropped about 10 yards away and the second crumpled when hit and never moved again.

Good luck this year.

Edited September 21, 2008 by MI_Packer

[snertley]

I'm planning on using my old 610 again this fall for deer. Im not sure on your states hunting laws, but normaly there is a minimum bullet and or case size. I know in ND where I deer hunt a .45ACP is NOT legal for deer, but I have heard it is in some states. Check the regs on your DNR web site. Good luck.

Jon

[MI_Packer]

Here in Michigan the minimum bullet diameter is .35" and it must be a straight walled cartridge.

[Joe4d]

A .45acp is not suitable for deer hunting whether it is legal or not. It doesnt have the penetration to quickly dispatch deer. Granted you may occasionally get a quick kill but then again you are much more likely to leave a wounded one in the swamps. Hunting shouldnt be about stunts.

[ebg3]

In NC, barrel length must be 5.5" or more and minimum cal. is .357.

[MichiganShootist]

Thanks for the thoughts. I know my 625 is legal in MI for all forms of game...

I have to disagree with you Joe on the lack of penetration. The load I am looking at is a +P 230 grain load from Buffalo Bore Ammo. Co. rated at 950 FPS.

The undergrowth is thick enough to force VERY close range shots anyway.... so if I stick to bow range (which is 50' or less for me)... a power factor of 218,500 should knock them down with ease.

I was just "fishing" to see if others were using their comptition wheels for hunting and if there were other loads I should consider for the 625.

[David Sinko]

Here in PA I have killed two deer with my .45 revolvers. The first was with my 4" .45 Colt Redhawk and 335 gr. WLN at 1263 FPS. I shot the deer between the eyes at around 15 yards and it was the most instantaneous kill of anything I have ever seen, except for when I shoot chipmunks with my M4. I am confident that this .45 Colt load can handle anything that walks the face of the earth. The second was with my 4" 625 .45 ACP match gun. I also shot this deer through the head at about 20 yards with a Speer 200 gr. JHP "Flying Ashtray" that was moving just over 1100 FPS. The bullet completely penetrated the skull and showed no evidence of expansion. Another instant kill, but this one did twitch, unlike the first one I had shot. I had not planned on using that 200 gr. bullet but my Redhawk had suddenly become ill and the 625 was sighted for 200 gr. bullets and this was literally a last minute decision. My choices for the .45 ACP would be Barnes 225 gr. XPB, Speer 230 or 255 gr. Gold Dot or 255 gr. SWC. Heavily loaded, either of these is more than adequate for whitetail at close range and should give sufficient penetration at any angle. Heavily loaded 255 gr. cast bullets in ACP or AR brass can duplicate the old .45 Colt loads, and those were not to be taken lightly. All of my large caliber revolvers were built specifically to handle multitasking.

Dave Sinko

[LPatterson]

I don't see a problem with using a competition gun for hunting but that is sort of like using a Formula 1 car to drive around country roads. You might be able to do it but it will be beat to h*ll. After all you would have to shoot several hunting rounds to zero the gun and get used to where to aim at different distances. I consider handgun hunting to be a short range activity though I do have a 44 mag Ruger Super Blackhawk with 10 1/2" barrel and 2-6X scope with 3 ring TSOB mount but limit shots to 75 yards off a rest. In Michigan I used a 444 Marlin with 265 gr bullets because it would go through branches instead of glancing off.

[HSMITH]

I have shot a mule deer with a 45, I used the P14 I started USPSA with. It was a 3x3 buck. I shot it through the base of the neck with a 230 Hydrashock at about 35 yards breaking the spine (actually took 2 vertebrae OUT) and bled the deer dead before I could walk to it. Exit hole was fist sized.

Were I going to do it again I would load 230 XTP's as fast as I could get them with Power Pistol, over 1000 fps is easy to do with a little barrel length. This load makes 225 power factor from my Commander and Federal primers look brand new on the edges. The XTP will stay together and penetrate deep enough for broadside vital shots. The 45 IMO doesn't have the power for anything other than broadside vital shots or head and neck shots unless you use a HARD cast lead bullet of at least 250 grains and over 850 fps.

[kurtm]

Wow I see that I am in the minority here. IMO any 45 acp 230 grain defense type load is PLEANTY for deer. As Howard said Broadside or head/neck, no "Texas heart shots". Golden Sabers work great as do Hydra-Shocks and etc. You don't need a load that exits the other side and bounces down the forest cuting limbs off of trees to effectivly "stop" a deer. I bet most of you guys think that you need at least a 338 Win Mag for Elk too! KurtM

[Joe4d]

You would have to push that 230 gr bullet to 1400 fps to be suitable for even a 208lb deer. IAW with the optimum game weight formula published by Lyman which is a pretty good read an makes a lot of sense. I am sure given the right conditions you could kill a polar bear with a 17 HMR. But as I stated hunting should have something to do with respect for the prey and actual scientific data not myths like brush busting and what my brother in laws cousins neighbor did. In your mind you know the 45ACP isnt a suitable deer cartridge or you wouldnt be posting the question.

[kurtm]

I don't mean to poke the bear...but you are telling us that we need a round which is very similar to the 40-64 Winchester to "adaquitly" take a 200# deer? What do you recomend for big deer? A 416 taylor?? We are talking about someone who hunts with a bow, and has a good amount of skill with the pistol he is going to use. This isn't someone who would get "buck fever" and missplace a shot, and the distances are CLOSE. The deer I have seen in Michigan are on the smaller side, we aren't talking Mule deer here, Your 625, with a good 230 grain bullet( no need for +P) is PLEANTY for the task at hand. Having seen several White Tail shot with a 45 A.C.P. they dropped when hit, and the bullet exited 3 of them what more could you ask! KurtM

[vrmn1]

Well lets see here. I have pushed cast 245gr SWC 1000fps.

If that won't blow a hole in any whitetail deer I don't know what will.

I have pushed 300gr LBT bullets 800 fps from my 4" 625, again more than enough for whitetail.

If a 45 acp will kill a human why then it should be more than plenty to kill a close range white tail. I know a lot of people that have killed deer with 45 acp. Yes it is a close range affair. Yes it should be a broadside shot but it will work with aplumb. I have carried my 625's hunting never got to shot anything with them.

Now I know deer are tougher now than they ever have been. And some folks think anything less than a 375 H&H is much to weak but I don't by that.

[Matt Griffin]

I think it's a valid point, .45 ACP is one of the more notoriously non-penetrating rounds going, and since we're talking about competition, I think everyone has 230gr @750 fps in their heads. A good bullet at 900+ fps should certainly do the trick. But I think the sticking point is this:

In hunting, the "trick" is killing the animal nearly instantaneously with a good shot.

In self-defense, the "trick" is to stop a threat, and screw their feelings.

In competition, the "trick" is to make the Major powerfloor while being able to shoot as quickly as possible.

All three are completely different, IMHO. In hunting you can fail to cleanly kill an animal by not bringing enough gun, making a bad shot (be it by judgement or ability), or by bad luck. Since you can't control bad luck, why not make sure you have the other two covered?

That being said, I'm considering going hunting with my 610 and some factory 10mm ammo. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with any type of .45acp.

H.

[20nickels]

Look at the bowling pin shooters handloads in a 25/625, they are nothing to sneeze at. It's the rainbow trjectory one needs to worry about.

[Carlos]

There is good news here:

-did you know that your 625 is also chambered for .45 Super? Every 625 ever made is suitable to

handle the .45 Super. The Super is a brand new caliber that most folks do not know about; its only been around since '88.

Would you guys doubting the 625 for deer change your mind if it launched a 230-grain bullet at 1,100 ft/s.??? (and that is only with mediocre powbers; I bet Vihta Vouri powder could come up with some amazing loads for this one!)

Just a quick search turned this info up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Super

http://www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm

I think it's a valid point, .45 ACP is one of the more notoriously non-penetrating rounds going, and since we're talking about competition, I think everyone has 230gr @750 fps in their heads. A good bullet at 900+ fps should certainly do the trick. But I think the sticking point is this:

In hunting, the "trick" is killing the animal nearly instantaneously with a good shot.

In self-defense, the "trick" is to stop a threat, and screw their feelings.

In competition, the "trick" is to make the Major powerfloor while being able to shoot as quickly as possible.

All three are completely different, IMHO. In hunting you can fail to cleanly kill an animal by not bringing enough gun, making a bad shot (be it by judgement or ability), or by bad luck. Since you can't control bad luck, why not make sure you have the other two covered?

That being said, I'm considering going hunting with my 610 and some factory 10mm ammo. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with any type of .45acp.

H.

[Bones]

Millions of successful whitetail hunters over several generations succeed with other, more appropriate choices. Most of those after the 45 ACP cartridge was designed and commercialized for it's intended purpose - to be fired out of a 5" semi-automatic pistol as an effective back-up tool for stopping 200 lb men at close range when using a .30 Caliber rifle was not an option.

The 4" 45 ACP revolver was hastily designed as a stop-gap measure to supply troops with handguns because the first back-up choice - a 5" semi-automatic pistol - could not be produced in sufficient quantities to meet the demand. Stated another way, it was a hasty subsititute for the back-up to the first choice - a .30 caliber rifle.

What do you think you've discovered that the designers and all those others have missed?

Use the right tool for the job.

Craig

[MichiganShootist]

Yikes

I didn't plan on starting a war with this thread. I have sucessufully hunted white tail for 3 decades....probably taking over 2 dozen with a bow. But also with a rifle, shotgun slug, black powder, and a .44 mag. pistol.

In the early years my weapon was a a 40 pound draw weight long bow launching a wooden arrow. I'm guessing it had a power factor of about 15 I now use a high tech compound bow... but a few years ago following shoulder surgery I had to crank it down to a pull weight of only 30 pounds. Guess what???? I still got my deer that season.

I always hunt from portable tree stands and have taken trophy quality deer at ranges of less than 10 feet away but never have I taken a bow shot over 50 feet. If I do my job on shot placement IMO a hot .45 ACP load should do just fine.

I plan on using that same distance guideline and the 200+ PF load in the 625 and will report back with my results.

BTW--- What made me think of this was that Tom Yost (famous gun guy) has posted several times on his www site about his sucess in Texas harvesting small framed deer with his Browning High Power.

Edited September 23, 2008 by MichiganShootist

[LPatterson]

Myself and others are not saying that a 45 ACP can not kill a deer at combat or closer ranges. There will be a difference between bow hunting and hunting with a pistol, you can not legally use the tree stand. This means the shot will be taken on a level plane where smell will be more of a factor than with you 15' in the air. There have been lots of Michigan deer killed with a 30-30 and I helped an Uncle triail one for almost a mile following the blood trail before we found it still trying to crawl away.

kurtm a 338 is common here in Montana for elk when the shot may be 400 yards across the pasture. I'm sure a lot of closer shots have been made but if you are not in the right spot to bugle them in then shots can get on the long side. Also that trophy 8 X 8 is getting harder to find.

[MichiganShootist]

4 or 5 years ago tree stands were made legal in Michigan for black powder and rifle hunting. That was probably after you moved West.

So my use of the 625 will be limited to the rifle season here in the "upper lower".

In my experience the "cleaness" of the kill is based on shot placement far for that the weapon chosen to make the shot. A 32 acp fired between the eyes beats a gut shot with a 7 mm mag. any day.

Edited September 23, 2008 by MichiganShootist

[Bones]

I think you mean Ted Yost; Tom Yost would have likely used a 5906 were he prone to such folly.

Craig

[Matt Cheely]

I use my 686 PPC gun for hunting whitetail. I do bump up the powder a bit though

[kurtm]

Almost all the hunters of the Wapati (real name for Elk) I have "met" get them at 400yards or so, All the hunters I am with when they activly get them are substatially under this range. Matter fact the last cow Elk I got was with a 45, but all the ones before that were either with a 1903A2 stock Springfield or an M1A, yes with iron sights on both. Matter of fact the 45 had iron sights as well and... well it was a 45-90 before you think I am cruel and inhumane

The Colt 45 that was issued as a stop gap durring the Moro insurection was Caled the "artillery" model. It was a Colt model P with a 5 1/2" barrel cut down from a 7 1/2" Cavalry model, A 250 gr. bullet at about 875, and from all reports it worked GREAT on small "White Tail" sized targets, taht were bent on mayhem. On a side note, althought non of us will admit it, I bet the .22 LR has killed thousands of Whitetail over the same amount of years that the 30-30 has. Do I recomend a .22...NO but a 45 is just dandy! KurtM

[MichiganShootist]

I use my 686 PPC gun for hunting whitetail. I do bump up the powder a bit though

I hope so Matt.... It would be a shame to bounce a bullet off of a nice buck

Edited September 23, 2008 by MichiganShootist