Graham Smith Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) I was looking at the info on the 2008 Nationals this morning and was struck by a very strange thought... Why is Limited 10 grouped along with Open while Limited is grouped with Production and Revolver? Given magazine restrictions for the two, it would seem to make more sense to do it the other way around. By that I mean that stages could be better designed to deal with the relative number of rounds per mag, with Open and Limited both having similar capacity and Production, L10, and Revolver being similar. Edited September 5, 2008 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I was looking at the info on the 2008 Nationals this morning and was struck by a very strange thought... Why is Limited 10 grouped along with Open while Limited is grouped with Production and Revolver? Probably because the "top" guys who shoot open wants to shoot limited and/or the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41mag Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I was looking at the info on the 2008 Nationals this morning and was struck by a very strange thought... Why is Limited 10 grouped along with Open while Limited is grouped with Production and Revolver? Given magazine restrictions for the two, it would seem to make more sense to do it the other way around. By that I mean that stages could be better designed to deal with the relative number of rounds per mag, with Open and Limited both having similar capacity and Production, L10, and Revolver being similar. I think so they can have more crossover..people who shoot open will also shoot limited, lim10 will shoot production. Just guessing. 41mag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmccrock Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 stages could be better designed to deal with the relative number of rounds per mag With the Back-to-back format (consecutive weekends, same range), the stages are similar for all divisions. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The posts above are correct in my mind, as the "major cross over" Divisions need to be scheduled at different times. That said.... The original poster, Graham Smith, asked about stage design and magazine capacity being a thought to the scheduling of Nationals. So here are my thoughts: Limited 10: It does not matter what the course design is, whether it is designed for an Open 30 round big stick or 10 round Limited 10 mags. Limited 10 shooters are shooting against Limited 10 shooters, and..... ONLY Limited 10 shooters. You make your stage plan based on 10+1!!!! As a dedicated SS'er, I get this, but many don't. The way I see it, if you shoot your game, you will have a much better Hit Factor and a better finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Yeah, I am sure it is the cross-over eliment that made the discision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 These are pistol matches, governed by USPSA rules, so you can't design a stage for an open gun (more than eight rounds from any one position). The challenges presented are to be surmounted by the competitor regardless of the equipment. So the mix of the divisions should have no impact on stage design. Just like the area matches are mixed divisions, yes the open shooter has advantages over the production shooter, however stage design does not (or should not) favor one division over the other (ok revolver shooters get screwed, but lets not go there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 ok revolver shooters get screwed...... ....but strangely, they seem to enjoy it. Something about loving a challenge and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 The divisions are broken up to keep both matches about the same number of shooters, both Nationals have a long waiting list within hours of open signup. I dont think crossover opportunity has much to do with it. Zhunter described the round count /stage design allready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 The divisions are broken up to keep both matches about the same number of shooters, both Nationals have a long waiting list within hours of open signup. I dont think crossover opportunity has much to do with it. Zhunter described the round count /stage design allready And that dynamic will probably stop working in another couple of years --- when what we're seeing at some other big matches starts happening at the Nats: Open, Limited, and Production all equally popular choices.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 I believe it's very much driven by crossovers, and/or sponsors and the sponsored shooters. At the Nats in Missoula, Voigt said the match loses money unless it basically sells out. The two 'sellout' divisions are Limited and Open. Mix in the other divisions more or less randomly and you have... the Nationals mix for the past several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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