Getting from point A to point B and C and so on

[HighVelocity]

I'm starting to see a trend in the way I have been shooting IDPA stages. On the stages that have little movement, even ones with complicated and or tight shots with swingers, non-threats, long distance etc, I do well. On stages that involve multiple shooting positions, I am losing a bunch of time, somewhere.

I "think" I am either waiting too long to move after the last shot at position A and/or taking too long to make the first shot from position B. How can I program my brain to start and stop my motion closer to the start/stop point of a position change? I do fine shooting on the move, it's moving fast between positions when NOT shooting that I need help on.

Thanks

Gary

Edited July 20, 2008 by HighVelocity

[Al Capizzo]

This is something I've had to learn too. The first thing is make sure you're calling your last shot in a position so that you can MOVE without hesitation, and second, when it is time to go, really go. I have to consiously make myself RUN, not just kinda lope, from point to point if I'm not shooting while moving.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Two things you may not be doing:

1. hold gun One Hand when running

(watch people holding it in twohands,

and it really slows you down)

2. keep the gun up high (you can see

the sights) - bring gun up two steps

before you hit P2 and fire the shot

as soon as your second foot hits P2.

And, run like mad - don't trot.

[Jake Di Vita]

it's moving fast between positions when NOT shooting that I need help on.

???

It seems like the best solution is to just move faster.

This is a mental issue - not a technique issue. Work these situations into your dry fire routine.

[jhe888]

I don't know how to work improving yet, but I think I have identified my problems in stages with lots of movement. The biggest time loser for me is being ready to shoot when I reach the next shooting position. I get there and fumble around for too long before starting the next shots. I also take too long to get going after finishing the shooting at one position.

[Brian Payne]

I just noticed this last night. Spikes. Let me explain.

I have been working all year on trying to increase that short burst of speed needed in field courses. Different sprinting excercises, leg workouts, moving aggressively, etc.. I am 49 yrs old and have always been a long distance runner and felt a little quick twitch muscle fiber would help with my speed. Also spent a lot of dry fire time working on making sure I was ready to shoot as soon as I was in position, and working on economy of motion whenever possible.

Last night I wore spikes for the first time (Nike Landsharks). I couldn't believe how much confidence I had in my footwork without having to worry about any slipping or sliding. Spikes = confidence in movement = speed between shooting positions. Just something else to try. This coming from a C class shooter trying to learn what it takes to get to B class and higher so YMMV.

[ChrisStock]

Our own DirtyPool40 ran us into the dirt teaching us movement from position to position and being able to snap a shot the instant you arrive at a new shooting position. I don't think I walked straight for a week after that afternoon of exercises. My thigh muscles were ill prepared for the sudden acceleration and fast stable stops.

The key is explosiveness from the start position to definitely knowing when and how to decrease speed and stabilizing your body (your shooting platform) the instant that you are clear to do so. Reading about it, seeing it done, and doing it are 3 different things completely. Even on a simple 2 shooting position course, he had us shaving a second or two within 30 minutes of drilling. If you had a course that requires 3 movements, we're talking up to 6 seconds saved, but I am slow as all get out. We had a junior training with us and he was smoking fast with movement. I didn't see how he could possible get any faster. Even he shaved a second and change off of each movement.

It is definitely a trainable skill, and one that is exploited to the fullest by the upper tier of shooters. The only way that I can think of to learn this is to have someone show you face to face.

[pjb45]

Having someone watch you doing your drills is very critical. They can observe your technique and comment. A couple of us have been working on our movement during some training sessions lately. Here are our points to review?

Are you consistent? Do you leave the box the same way each time? Do you enter the box with the same foot? Are you entering the box hard or soft? Are you slowing down right before you entering the box? When you enter the box are you taking extra steps inside the box to set your shooting position? Are you lowering your center of gravity?

I try to enter the box the same way every time. I try and keep my center of gravity lower and definitely do not try to enter the box low and soft and then raise up. Raising up to settle into a shooting position wastes a lot of time as does moving your feet once your are in the box. And most important to me, is to keep my gun up in my sight especially when I try and enter the box softly. I have seem a lot of GMs breaking a shot as soon as the pick up their back foot {the front foot is already in the box).

What I have observed with GMs is that they are very self aware of every movment they make. It starts after the last shot breaks and is confirmed to how they exit, what they do while moving, how they enter, what they do after they enter, and how soon they have acquired their sight picture in order to break a shot.

[UW Mitch]

This is a mental issue - not a technique issue. Work these situations into your dry fire routine.

Having just moved to Open, where folks are generally moving and shooting faster, I found myself needing to move faster. This weekend at Custer (local match) they had a lot of stages with running that didn't require shooting. All week I had thought about actually running, and I did it - was *almost* able to keep my times as fast as shooters who I know SHOOT faster than me. Overcoming mental barriers has been huge.

~Mitch

[bjcollado]

guys, what's faster? shooting WHILE moving towards another position, or shooting all targets as seen in one position then run as fast as you can towards the next position?

[MemphisMechanic]

I'm starting to see a trend in the way I have been shooting IDPA stages. On the stages that have little movement, even ones with complicated and or tight shots with swingers, non-threats, long distance etc, I do well. On stages that involve multiple shooting positions, I am losing a bunch of time, somewhere.

I "think" I am either waiting too long to move after the last shot at position A and/or taking too long to make the first shot from position B. How can I program my brain to start and stop my motion closer to the start/stop point of a position change? I do fine shooting on the move, it's moving fast between positions when NOT shooting that I need help on.

Thanks

Gary

People tend to focus on running faster (#2 below). But there are 3 key things that happen between the final target at point A, and the first at point B.

1. Accelerate as fast as possible after the final shot

2. Move as fast as possible

3. Stop as quickly (and smoothly) as possible, gun up and sights on-target

Moving quickly is fairly easy: Let go of the gun with the weak hand, pump with both arms, and keep the gun up near your face

Starting?

Call the final shot. That's crucial to avoiding a pulled shot, or a hesitant departure. If you can't call your shots, you're possibly better off listening for the DING of that crucial target-activating popper, than leaving the moment the sights lift. You MUST be sure you're ready to go when it's time to leave. When you pull away from the house wondering if you closed the garage door, you never drive very fast.

Learn how to properly do a drop-step, and the other key techniques crucial to getting moving. You need to lean into the sprint. The shoulders have to lead the hips if you're going to get your legs pumping in this miniature 100-yard dash. If the last target is easy, and doesn't have you wrapped around a barricade, then shoot it on the move - with stationary feet. Start halfway-falling in the direction you need to go, the snap the hips and feet in that direction as quickly as possible once you've shot the target.

Stopping is tricker.

Like looking a reload into the magwell, to stop quickly you need to SEE where the feet need to go. Once your about 2 strides from the stopping point, get your head up, looking through the barricade at the first target's position, and start getting the weak hand on the gun, up in your face.

Most who shoot a lot of IDPA tend to decelerate in 2 to 3 steps:

Moving Left to Right, the left foot plants 2-3 feet from the corner as you begin to slow, the right foot stops just shy of the edge of the barricade as you slow to a halt, and you lean out and engage targets. It's smooth, but you began stopping earlier than really needed.

Ever watch an IPSC guy shooting a box-to-box drill?

Again, left-to-right: As he runs toward the box, the gun and head come up and acquire the target, and the RIGHT foot is planted in the far side of the box (almost all the braking action occurs in this step, as he transitions from leaning way back to an upright posture) and he's ready to shoot the moment the left one leaves the ground outside the box, and is placed gently BEHIND that final foot.

The logical thing for new shooters is to barely step into the box with one foot, then step all the way in with the other. That causes one last unnecessary step that shifts your weight... and jostles the sights. It further wastes time because you're taking longer to slow down. If the traction is there, try to slam on the brakes in 1-2 steps, instead of taking 5 little stutter-steps to kill your momentum.

So the IDPA version of that would be to step way out in front with the right foot planted where it needs to end up, so you're leaning backward like a sliding baseball player. Slamming on the brakes, your momentum carries you into an upright posture with nearly all of your weight on that foot as the gun is presented around the edge of the barricade, and the left foot is placed smoothly on the ground while the first target is engaged.

Set an IDPA target up at either end of the longest hallway in your house, and use the corners at the ends as barricades. Run from end to end like a dork, and air-gun them as you see 'em.

Last night I wore spikes for the first time (Nike Landsharks). I couldn't believe how much confidence I had in my footwork without having to worry about any slipping or sliding.

They're a tremendous help, but the OP asked about IDPA... where they're not legal.

guys, what's faster? shooting WHILE moving towards another position, or shooting all targets as seen in one position then run as fast as you can towards the next position?

Shooting while moving ALMOST always works out to be faster. The key, of course, is that you have to land the hits while doing so. Practice shooting on the move at home. My wife's elliptical excercise bike-thingy works great for this. Squat low, and BEND YOUR ELBOWS.

There are always exceptions to every rule. Your skill level, the distance of the shot... and is this a target that's easy to shoot from a standing position later on? Are you going to have to eat a standing reload if you don't shoot it while moving now?

Set up a small stage at your next practice session, and try it for yourself. The risk-versus-reward for a D shooter might not make a certain stage worth shooting while moving, whereas it'll be mandatory for a GM, because everyone he's shooting against will be sure to do it.

Edited September 29, 2008 by MemphisMechanic

[38supPat]

guys, what's faster? shooting WHILE moving towards another position, or shooting all targets as seen in one position then run as fast as you can towards the next position?

That all depends, there is no one correct answer for all stages....

[bkeeler]

I think it was Rob Leatham that said ....."It's not how fast you get there,it's how fast you get there ready to shoot."

BK

[Chris iliff]

PM GM Matt Cheely, he gives one heck of a movement class. I learned so much it will take awhile for all of it to sink in. Nothing beats a GM standing there pointing and teaching while you are doing drills.

edited to add Matt is also one nice guy and good teacher.

Edited October 5, 2008 by fourtrax