Mo Hepworth Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I noticed my timing is way off when it comes to shooting steel..... I "THink"I am getting a decent sight picture,..but very inconsistent since this spring began. I have had little (NO time) to practice..... Trigger is good,..just can not get any good runs.....feels very foreign. I actually got to practice today.....I think if I get a few more range days I may work it out... I seem to be putting way too much pressure on the gun in regards to grip and trigger pressure. I think It may be due to dryfireing with the DA ...(I am using an EAA/Tanfoglio stock 2 now,..I was using an HK USP last year. any thoughts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Forget "timing"...use vision. When things go south for me, I am usually caught up in expectations...and not taking care of simply executing. The fix for me is to mentally "turn up my vision". Then it's a matter of executing the fundamentals... - I locate the dead center of the steel - I get the gun pointed at the dead center of the steel - I keep the gun pointed at the dead center of the steel until the bullet has left the barrel (which the sights let me know by the front sight lifting in recoil) I KNOW where then bullet will land, because... I've read the sights and called the shot. My visions is "turned up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I need vision and a chant of 'ride the trigger... ride the trigger...' beforehand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I need vision and a chant of 'ride the trigger... ride the trigger...' beforehand Mine is usually "trigger straight back, trigger straight back", or " squeez the left, squeez the left"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Shred and DC's posts bring to mind Brian's Training Attention http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61709 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I need vision and a chant of 'ride the trigger... ride the trigger...' beforehand Mine is usually "trigger straight back, trigger straight back", or " squeez the left, squeez the left"... You guys actually can think about something while you're shooting? If I'm doing that, I'm already toast...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I seriously agree with G-man. The more experienced I get the more I realize that once something comes to my conscious mind... I've screwed up. Whether it's a botched reload or just a brain freeze. All the thinking you need should happen before the buzzer IMO. On most good runs I'm just pushing to find the sight as fast as I can then break a shot and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I seriously agree with G-man. The more experienced I get the more I realize that once something comes to my conscious mind... I've screwed up. Whether it's a botched reload or just a brain freeze. All the thinking you need should happen before the buzzer IMO. On most good runs I'm just pushing to find the sight as fast as I can then break a shot and repeat. I think before the beep... though you can think about an awful lot of stuff during a 2.50 Roundabout run.. its' funny. Just think about something except shooting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 thanks for the advice guys,....I think I was stuck in the "habit"of shooting at steel,..instead of seeing the sight picture,...I did it a couple of times this weekend at a match, and on others I shot one shot per steel...instead of throwing a few rounds at them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskySig Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The more experienced I get the more I realize that once something comes to my conscious mind... I've screwed up. I agree with this. A couple of months back I shot a stage that finished with a Texas Star. I shot the stage on cruise control and everything was going great. I got the Texas Star and got the top three plates no problem. Then my conscious mind kicked in with "Man, you're really burning this Texas Star down!" The next thing I know is I miss the fourth plate. I regrouped and went one for one on the final two plates. It was still a really good stage for me, but it definitely was an eye opening experience of how the conscious mind can really screw things up if you let it. mattk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 (edited) Yep. When I switched over to shoot some USPSA matches the last few months I was suprised at all the shooters that "air gunned" the course before hand. I think now I understand why- you need to KNOW what you are going to do well before the buzzer and visulalize yourself shooting it... and do it in autopilot. I can tell the better shooters from the less experienced... when they have a "glitch" they just recover gracefully. The inexperienced shooters look like someone dropped them down from the heavens. Good practice, repetitions and lots of hard works is all it takes. At least that what's I'm trying. Back to the steel- it's one of my weaknesses. I need to get it out of my head, figure it out and move on. I'm working to make this my strength. With steel- when you miss you know it. When you shoot again and still miss your head can get messed up. With paper- you try to call your shots and move on. Psychologically steel is different because there are no Cs and Ds- it's just As or Mikes and the feedback is more obvious. I need to start just seeing "paper" and get the As I know I can shoot. The more experienced I get the more I realize that once something comes to my conscious mind... I've screwed up. I agree with this. A couple of months back I shot a stage that finished with a Texas Star. I shot the stage on cruise control and everything was going great. I got the Texas Star and got the top three plates no problem. Then my conscious mind kicked in with "Man, you're really burning this Texas Star down!" The next thing I know is I miss the fourth plate. I regrouped and went one for one on the final two plates. It was still a really good stage for me, but it definitely was an eye opening experience of how the conscious mind can really screw things up if you let it. mattk Edited July 17, 2008 by lugnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I've been working the same issue... here are a few things I've noticed. My vision wants to look for movement on the steel instead of looking seeing the next shot I try and do both.... not good. I found that when I was shooting at a down angle my elbows were sticking out like chicken wings (thanks to the video for that) Rushing... for some reason I "felt" I had to go faster or as fast as paper. The target is smaller... you need to see more to get a hit. That one is hard to accept being that I can put two in the A zone a lot faster than I can steel the same size. Also found that my dot is harder for me to see on white steel. Sight on target? The thing is when you shoot paper you see the sight in the middle and call it as it goes, but I have a much harder time calling shots on steel. I has to be because I pull my focus off a bit to soon, but knowing that and fixing is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 thanks for the advice guys,....I think I was stuck in the "habit"of shooting at steel,..instead of seeing the sight picture,...I did it a couple of times this weekend at a match, and on others I shot one shot per steel...instead of throwing a few rounds at them.. The trap of steel is to listen for the hit, instead of calling the shot visually. If you're truly reading the sights at the moment the shot fires - if you miss the target, you will make up the shot before you hear that you missed. Occasionally, if I was really reading the sights good, I'd make up a shot that actually hit the target. Over the long haul, I'd definitely prefer the occasional "not-needed make up shot" over the "didn't make up the shot until I heard the miss," shot. A great way to practice steel stages is to replace the steel targets with paper plates (or similarly sized paper targets). be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcarter Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I was just discussing something like this with another shooter. I have had a difficult time with this! If the targets, steel or paper, are close and open, I tend to look for my shot and not look at my sights. This is causing me real problems. My only solution to this so far is a lot of dry fire(calling my shots) and telling myself before a stage to look at the sights. Even then I still catch myself doing this. Anyone with a solution that I have not thought of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) When your brain let's you do it right, then you have dryfired enough and had enough live fire to burn it in......Sorry, dont mean to be facetious....but when it happens it happens.....only you will know when..... Good luck, DougC Edited July 18, 2008 by DougCarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) thanks for the advice guys,....I think I was stuck in the "habit"of shooting at steel,..instead of seeing the sight picture,...I did it a couple of times this weekend at a match, and on others I shot one shot per steel...instead of throwing a few rounds at them.. The trap of steel is to listen for the hit, instead of calling the shot visually. If you're truly reading the sights at the moment the shot fires - if you miss the target, you will make up the shot before you hear that you missed. Occasionally, if I was really reading the sights good, I'd make up a shot that actually hit the target. Over the long haul, I'd definitely prefer the occasional "not-needed make up shot" over the "didn't make up the shot until I heard the miss," shot. A great way to practice steel stages is to replace the steel targets with paper plates (or similarly sized paper targets). be thanks,....I went to the range today.. I was shooting some transition practice stages,..and also shooting plates. I was tryhing to run thru them and getting good and bad results,.. I then went back to the 25 yard line and noticed I paid attention to seeing the sight lift more so,.and then when I went back to the 13yard line,..I was missing much less,...I guess I saw a strict sight picture at farther distance,..and it helped me clean up the sight picture I "thought"was adequate....turns out it hasn't been as of late... Edited July 18, 2008 by Mo Hepworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 When things go south for me, I am usually caught up in expectations...and not taking care of simply executing. This is IT for me in one sentence! Thanks to the OP for the topic and Flex for the answer! Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff686 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I noticed my timing is way off when it comes to shooting steel..... I "THink"I am getting a decent sight picture,..but very inconsistent since this spring began. I have had little (NO time) to practice.....Trigger is good,..just can not get any good runs.....feels very foreign. I actually got to practice today.....I think if I get a few more range days I may work it out... I seem to be putting way too much pressure on the gun in regards to grip and trigger pressure. I think It may be due to dryfireing with the DA ...(I am using an EAA/Tanfoglio stock 2 now,..I was using an HK USP last year. any thoughts..... This happened to my friend last month. It had been the getting worse and worse for months. Two weeks ago, he discovered that his sight was loose and had been drifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 A great way to practice steel stages is to replace the steel targets with paper plates (or similarly sized paper targets).be This is precisely what I have been doing in the last months to practice calling steel, infact we just did this tonight at a desert practice. I got the idea from you about paper plates and made 5 wood stands with 5ft 1x4's standing up with paper plates stapled atop. Sure the wood gets shot up but I just cut off a couple of inches and reuse them until the beam gets too low.. Here's the game, first you shoot up the plates a couple of times so no one can be looking for their holes then mark all the holes with a pen slash as we shoot, to keep them on the target. Now each shooter shoots the plates, two, three, four, hits, whatever you all decide on (with transitions between each shot). The idea is that you can take however many shots you want at them but you cant have too little or " too many" holes in the target when your done. You can only rely on what you think you saw to determind if you need a makeup or not... This is an eye opening excercise in shooting steel !! Everyone is always trying to prarie dog but cant tell anything from all the holes in the plates !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 I was just discussing something like this with another shooter. I have had a difficult time with this! If the targets, steel or paper, are close and open, I tend to look for my shot and not look at my sights. This is causing me real problems. My only solution to this so far is a lot of dry fire(calling my shots) and telling myself before a stage to look at the sights. Even then I still catch myself doing this. Anyone with a solution that I have not thought of? Our natural response to a particular challenge is often not the most effective one. It seems like a natural tendency to stop reading the sights the closer the targets get. It always was for me. I never stopped battling that tendency. But I was able to get good, consistent results on "hoser targets" if - I powerfully set my mind to look right at the sights no matter how close the targets were, right before shooting every stage. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 (edited) I was out to the range today,..I started off justing shooting groups,...also to evaluate that my new extractor and spring were working. Everything worked 100%,...what I haven't done in a while was just shoot for accuracy /group shoot. Turns out I should do this more often,....for some reason my POI was off,..shooting 2" high nearly at 20yards, and shooting right about 2",...Maybe due to a couple of weeks ago when I dropped my gun while picking up brass at a practice. Might have jarred something... My ammo has stayed the same,...but my recoil spring is worked in very much so,...Not sure if that would effect the POI that much,...but it paid off doing some group shooting. I haven't shot steel that well in a while.....I paid attention to that front sight in the notch,..and tried to float the gun across the plates and squares with just a brief pause on each shot,...calling the shot and riding the recoil tothe next target. I tried using small 5x5 square plates in between some 8" circle plates to force myself to maintain a good sight picture....worked out much better. I caught myself getting into the "habbit"of shooting steel instead of aiming,...hard to break that habit sometimes,...but all in all,..worked out great. thanks for the advice. Edited July 22, 2008 by Mo Hepworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertdog Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 When things go south for me, I am usually caught up in expectations...and not taking care of simply executing. This is IT for me in one sentence! Thanks to the OP for the topic and Flex for the answer! Patrick Yep, thanks accuracy has been off lately, not focusing and executing properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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