steel1212 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I hear several people using n320, WST, Solo, Universal clays, etc. The problem I had when using bear creeks was I would get a lot of moly build up and the smoke sometimes was worse then my .45 lead loads with clays. Now I'll admit I was using TG. So was it the bear creeks and TG combo that was giving me fits and I should try precisions? I mean on their website they cut a hole in a bullet and put a torch to it and the lead melts out but the coating stays. Should I try diffrent powders? The n320 and precision combo would save me about 200 bucks per 8k over the MG and TG combo I'm using now. If there is a cheaper powder though that smokes as little as 320 let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 No matter how many ways the same question is asked........... It's all a compromise. All loads smoke. Some less than others. Faster double based with lead are the worst. Fast double based with moly not as much. " " " " " with jackets the least...but they still smoke. If you are going to shoot Precisions a single based powder is -IMO - better on the smoke factor. A little slower powder has less than the faster powders .. again IMO - with the trade off being an increase in gun movement. .02 from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 I guess I'll just try to find more sponsors to cover the reloading cost and stick with MG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I just started trying WST with my 45 and lead bullets. So far, so good, less smoke than my 231 load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 For 40cal, I am running MasterBlaster (moly) or Bear Creek using Titegroup....I get some smoke but its not too bad. For 45acp, I was running MasterBlaster and Clays which makes a really nice soft shooting load and again...a little smoke but nothing too bad. I've heard (but never tried) that TG doesn't work well in 45acp to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salilus Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 For 40cal, I am running MasterBlaster (moly) or Bear Creek using Titegroup....I get some smoke but its not too bad. For 45acp, I was running MasterBlaster and Clays which makes a really nice soft shooting load and again...a little smoke but nothing too bad. I've heard (but never tried) that TG doesn't work well in 45acp to begin with. Im running 3.2 of plain ole Clay's behind a Precision 185. I have shot these indoors and out and not had a smoke problem, there is smoke, but not a problem. Coming out of my Xd-40 Tac 5" they move ~815 for a 150pf. Real nice soft load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hello: Smoke? What smoke. The wind blows here at 20 mph all the time so you don't even see the smoke. I will be using the Precisions for local and practice and the Montana Golds for big matches. I want to try AA-2 and some Solo 1000 Merlin has Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I've been using universal clays with 185gr Masterblaster bullets in my STI and get close to no smoke and haven't seen any leading or build-up. Haven't gotten around to building a load yet, but I will be playing with Solo 1000 in 40 since it worked the best out of everything I tested in 9mm with precisions. Both of those powders are about the same $ as TG, but it might take just a touch more powder for pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen517 Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 I've been reloading for 3 years now and I'm no expert. I've used 1 lb of titegroup smoked a bit too much for me and switched to vv320 and haven't used anything else since must be over 20lbs by now. Same load and oal and have used precision deltaTC mg jhp, zero jhp and tc, bearcreek and winchester jhp and all work fine. All crono right around where I want them. Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildar Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 WST probably the least expensive of the powders listed. I switched over to WST with moly bullets to cut down on the smoke and have been very happy with the switch and the added fact that it's more economical makes it a winner for me. I've tried Titegroup, 231, and VV320 and found they all smoke more than WST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 I think i have posted on this subject about a dozen times, but I am such a huge fan, i will post it again. Solo 1000, is what you are looking for. Cheap, accurate, available, low recoil, and no smoke, with every moly I have tried. Master blaster, Precision, and now Bear creek. I use it in My wifes 9, as well as my SV 40. Just perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 What is your load with solo for .40 and 9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 With the 40 I am running a 1.175 oal, with 4.5 - 4.6 grains, this is with a 183 grain moly bullet, it runs about 170 pf in my gun. With the 9 I Am Running a 1.125 oal, with a 147 grain precision moly, and anywhere from 3.2 to 3.5 grains. At the last match, this ran a 136 pf. The gun ran inconsitant with a 125 pf load. With a 9mm 1911, recoil is a non issue. hope this helps. 1 word of caution. I would really watch your OAL on the 40. I noticed when I ran the charge up to 5.1 areaI I would get a little primer flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Corey, I never have understood why some people have problems with moly buildup. I don't doubt that it occurs, I just never experienced it. I have only shot Precision bullets, but I've shot them in 9mm, .38 special, .40 and .45 and never had an issue. I have used titegroup which smokes and N320 which smokes less but still smokes and never had an issue. I've never shot the bear creek or masterblasters so I don't know how they would work in my gun. My bore stays clean with an occasional run of a bore snake through it. But maybe I'm missing something. What are the visual indicators of moly build up? Just Curious dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I've had issues with moly and lead buildup in 9mm with moly bullets, but not with the 40's. I think it really comes down to having enough pressure to seal off the rear of the bullet as it leaves the cartridge so you are not pushing hot gases down the side of the bullet. It's a bit easier to do this in 40 cal at major pf's IMO, and the 9mm minor rounds can be tough if you are not willing to push up your velocity a bit for a higher chamber pressure. If you are seeing moly/lead buildup from 9mm rounds, try going higher in your velocity and pf and see if it gets better. I know it helped with my 9mm loads, expecially with the precision rounds. I really don't think you can beat Solo 1000 for moly bullets in either 9mm or 40. Universal clays works really well in 40 too, but would not use UC in 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 It would build up right at the end of the chamber, basically where the bullet sits before it hits the lands and grooves. I woudl scrub and srub and still have moly in my chambers and this was with bear creeks as their price was a lot better than precision's at the time. Only thing I could guess was that titegroup was melting some of the moly off or that my chamber was to tight for the .401 bullets plus moly. Lead bullets would leave lead behind but that would come out with the brush pretty easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcelr8hard Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Hey SA Friday, I extensively read your posts in the reloading section on your experiments with the precision moly bullets and 9mm. I am shooting 147 precisions out of my trojan using 3.2 grains of solo 1000. The lead fouling is pretty bad with these loads. Would you recommend running these a little hotter? They are at 1.14 oal as these were the most accurate out of my barrel. Thanks, Butch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 In a nut-shell, yes. As long as you are not seeing any high pressure signs, try going up in incriments of powder until you see the bullet is getting a good enough seal to stop gasses from escaping around the bullet and down the barrel. I was running my precision loads at a shorter OAL for my glocks, and this helped with generating pressure in the chamber. With a longer OAL, you might have to go a bit hotter to get the bullet to seal and stop leading so much. You also want to ensure you are not overcrimping the bullet and splitting the coating. Second, use a mix of 50% vinagar and 50% hydrogen peroxide to soak the barrel in for about 15-30 minutes before cleaning it. It will help the lead release from inside the barrel and make cleaning much easier. Some people just live with the leading and clean the barrel with this mix about every 1000 rounds and have no problems. Hope that helps. I ultimately came to the conclusion that shooting moly's in 9mm was a trade off of cheaper ammo for more cleaning. For me, its worth it for cheap training ammo, but I still look for cheap jacketed and scarf them up when I can find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Leading is usually caused by bullets that are too small in diameter. I had some Bear Creek 9mm moly bullets that would lead in every 9mm gun I had. Not a little, but severe leading. I checked the diameter - .355-.356. They replaced all of my bullets n/c with some sized .3565" - .357". No leading what so ever now. Titegroup is not a good choice for moly or lead bullets. I switched over to Solo 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Leading is usually caused by bullets that are too small in diameter. I had some Bear Creek 9mm moly bullets that would lead in every 9mm gun I had. Not a little, but severe leading. I checked the diameter - .355-.356. They replaced all of my bullets n/c with some sized .3565" - .357". No leading what so ever now. Titegroup is not a good choice for moly or lead bullets. I switched over to Solo 1000. Hey Joe , is bear creek still in business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Yes they are. I received some bullets from them last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Leading is usually caused by bullets that are too small in diameter. I had some Bear Creek 9mm moly bullets that would lead in every 9mm gun I had. Not a little, but severe leading. I checked the diameter - .355-.356. They replaced all of my bullets n/c with some sized .3565" - .357". No leading what so ever now. Titegroup is not a good choice for moly or lead bullets. I switched over to Solo 1000. Now that IS interesting... I think we are talking about the same problem from different views. The larger bullet is sealing off and stopping the gasses from escaping around the bullet. Very interesting. I haven't thought of this before. This explains a lot about what I've found with the black bullets. My STI 40 shoots black bullets all day long with zero buildup, but my glock and lone wolf barrels both lead a bit. The STI barrel has shallower rifling than the glock and lone wolf barrels. So, essentially, the deeper the lands in the rifling, the harder it will be to seal off the bullet and stop those gasses from ripping up the side of the bullet. A just slightly larger bullet would be in order for those barrels with deeper lands. It really makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 (edited) Yes they are. I received some bullets from them last week. D o you have their Phone no. ? They don't have a website anymore. Edited July 4, 2008 by bulm540 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 209-874-4322 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 209-874-4322 thanks joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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