Aimpoint

[Big Shooter]

I'm not compensated in any way by Aimpoint, nor did I write this to bash..."Brand E." I'm just a big-ole'-dumb patrol SGT. in a big city that shoots more than your average copper, and likes to share what little knowledge I have so others can make a more informed decision. I know non-magnified red-dots aren't that big on the competition circuit, but they are used somewhat. I also know that there are officers on this forum that may have a choice of sights.

We have been "about to get" patrol rifles for years now; I guess time will tell. Until about a year ago I didn't know what an Aimpoint was. I had heard the name before, but I thought they were cheap airsoft toys. I owned three "Brand E" sights, and through my own experience, I became aware of their shortcomings, (especially "N" batteries,) but I still thought they were the best thing out there. I eventually sold 2 "E's" to help fund the purchase of Aimpoints. When my third didn't sell right away I decided to keep it, to be able to show others the differences first hand, and sold some other stuff instead.

In May of '07, I took a Pat Rogers'/EAG Tactical class when he came to Dane County. I saw several Aimpoints in the class, and decided to start doing a little research. (Two side notes, here. 1.)Pat is a highly regarded tactical trainer with lots of experience overseas, and very highly recommended. 2.) In this class there were a bunch of Aimpoints and a few "E's", my own included. The only red dot that went down?? You got it, a "Brand E" ...)

In the fall of '07 I obtained an Aimpoint Comp M4 and a Micro T-1. I sighted them in on identical DPMS/Rock River M4 type carbines at 25 yards, the length of the indoor range I was able to use. I didn't measure or take photos of the groups I shot, I didn't even think of it at the time. The groups were pretty much what you would expect of an AR at 25 yards from a mediocre shooter...mostly inside of a target paster, maybe a couple just on the edge.

Using the standard Aimpoint mount on the M4, and a LaRue QD mount on the T1, I took the sights off the rifles, then put them right back on and fired a few groups...no change in the POI. I then put them on my patio for two nights in the 30-ish degree weather, then back to the range to shoot a few groups...no change. In the big freezer (0 degrees) for 2 nights, no change. Into a 5-gallon bucket of water for 2 nights...yep, right on. All pretty tame, and exactly what I expected.

During my research I had heard stories and seen video where a group was shot with an Aimpoint, the sight was then removed from the rifle and tossed a few feet and allowed to crash-land on the ground, then put back on the gun and another group shot with no change in the POI. I decided to conduct a throw test of my own. I had a witness shoot a 25-yard group, we then took the M4 sight off the rifle and threw it the length of the range. It bounced off the concrete floor a couple times. I figured that wasn't enough, so I threw it back, bouncing it off the floor a few more times. There was some slight damage to the housing after this:

however, I put it back on the gun and it was still right on.

There was one problem, though. I left the kill flash in place during the throw test, and a slight dent in the housing locked it in place. After a little more shooting I discovered the kill flash was a real PITA in a low-light environment, so I decided it had to go. Over the course of a couple days I tried everything I could think of to "un-bend" the housing and remove the kill flash. There just wasn't enough material anywhere for anything to grab hold of. I realized I would have to destroy the kill flash to get it out. My last resort was the Dremel tool. The kill-flash-extraction was going just fine. I had about 75% of it out without damaging the threads or anything else. One last area I had to hit with the Dremel when it happened...the tool skipped, and I whacked the threads and the glass:

The threads were now useless, but the crack in the glass didn't look bad. I decided to make the best of a bad situation, so I put the sight through the freezer and dunk tank again, as I described above. It is still watertight and still right on the money. Since the damage, I've shot about 500 rounds with this sight on a couple different rifles. The same size groups as before, (with a couple warm days that allowed me to go to an outdoor range) mostly inside a paster at 50 yards, and easy head shots at 100 yards on a standard USPSA target.

I eventually did the exact same testing with a Micro-T1. I learned a little from the Comp-M4 test, though. During the throw testing, the T1 had its lens caps and a single wrap of duct tape around it so as to not bend it up. I think that was fair, it got the same "jarring" around, but no marks were left on the sight.

In the interests of total disclosure, I did not do any of the above to my sole remaining "Brand E" sight. In simply looking at "Brand E" next to an Aimpoint....well, there is no comparison. I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that the "E" would survive.

The difference in battery life is unbelievable. I have had my CompM4 turned on since September/October. My T-1 has been on since November. A Lithium "AA" battery in the M4 will last 5 years of constant on. In the T1 a 2032 battery will last 3 years of constant on. WOW. The (advertised) 400 hours of my "AA" "Brand E" is more like 40 hours, and on top of that the da^! thing turns itself off!! My Aimpoints never turn off.

Battery life is a discussion in and of itself, but imagine this. Whatever your situation is...MIL deployed overseas, a copper here on the mean streets, a homeowner that keeps a red-dot-sighted gun in the closet, or a 3-gun shooter using a red dot...when the rounds start coming in at you (or the timer goes off) you throw the rifle up to your shoulder and...SH!T forgot to turn my sight on!!! (How many Open shooters have done that??) With an Aimpoint you just don't have to worry about it.

Why did I do this torture testing and what relevance does it have?? Well, I did a helluvalotta research on Aimpoint and I wanted to see for myself. As far as relevance, any sight that made it through what I put it through, should be able to take a little abuse in a squad or on the street...or at a match. I'm thinking sitting in a car outside in the winter for shift after shift, or perhaps being bounced around in a trunk or an occasional inadvertent whack into a door frame or something like that.

All that being said, do I think "E" is a horrible optic? No I don't. I think they're "OK" I know they're being used by MIL and LE, and I'd like to hear from those that have used them a lot. Would I feel under-gunned if I had to hit the streets with an "E"? No, I wouldn't. Given a choice, however, I'm gonna pick an Aimpoint every time.

The confidence I have in Aimpoint goes beyond words.

[uscbigdawg]

I've carried both for work and will say that while the Aimpoint might be more robust, I prefer the EOTech, especially for shots at distance. The 'forward of the muzzle' hologram of the reticle can throw some folks off, but I think it's way faster at medium to long distance. At close ranges, I just shoot the rifle as if it's a big open gun. Target focus and the ring/dot is there.

Rich

[Chuck Anderson]

I've played with all three of the sights mentioned. Our Tac team uses Eo Tech's exclusively because they're neat. I bought and use an Aimpoint M4 on my work rifle. I haven't done any torture testing to it though. I have seen the Aimpoint guys toss them around during media days at the last two SHOT Show's. They throw, them, kick them stomp them, and I'll be danged if I've seen any of them not work 100%. There is a new version of the M4 with the battery compartment at the 5 O'Clock position instead of 1 O'Clock that should be even better.

[ken hebert]

note to self: Do not, undre any circumstances, loan equipment to Big Shooter.

[safenate]

I've used Aimpoints during military and private security for over a decade (around the world) and can't complain about any of them. They keep getting better. At the A8 3 gun this weekend it served well from 5 yds to 200 yds (12" stell, offhand). It was a 2 MOA M model with a 50 yd zero using 55 fmj PMC thru a 16" pencil barrel. Did i mention it rained too, no fog. Perhaps a 1 moa, 2x would be good to over 300+ yds.

[davidwiz]

With distant targets (i.e. past 100 yards), do you find the dot on the Aimpoint too big or are you able to aim accurately? From talking to people who've used both, that seems to be the one shortcoming of the Aimpoint and a benefit of the EOTech.

[maineshootah]

note to self: Do not, undre any circumstances, loan equipment to Big Shooter.

+ 1!

[Kingman]

at distance you need the 2moa dot on the aimpoint. I had a 4moa and an 8moa dot. Those at any distance do make precision shots hard.

[Big Shooter]

I've been told 300 yard hits on poppers aren't to hard with the magnifier, 2 minute dot, and a little practice. Also possible but a little harder to do with the 4 minute models vs. the 2 minute models. I haven't tried it myself yet. I'm heading to the range for an all day practice session Wed or Thurs so maybe I'll do some more putzing around w/it then.

I just went to the basement, and at about 50' on about a 2"x2" piece of tape I couldn't tell the difference between a 1 minute EO and the 2 minute Comp M4. The big 4 minute dot on a Micro T1 was very obvious, though. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the eye can't differentiate between things smaller than 2 or 3 minutes.

All my OT is cut off at work and after my first post above I can't find anyone to loan me a magnifier & mount!

[safenate]

At the A8 3G someone told me the longest target is 335 yds. Is there a standard size for a target at that distance? The 2 MOA straight power may be okay under good-ideal conditions on a metric (or that size steel). I don't have access to anything over 100 Yd, at this time.

[gotm4]

I'm a big fan of Aimpoints as well. My favorites are my 2 Aimpoint M4s (one of which is the S model). They are great pieces of glass, for distance shooting it's best to dim the brightness way down so it isn't blooming and appearing bigger than it really is.

Here's my Aimpoint M4 on my Colt with a prototype Bobro mount.

And here's my Aimpoint M4S on my 12.5" SBR in a ADM (American Defense Manufacturing) mount, I prefer the S model on this gun since it's a little shorter.

[vipertech]

I have one of the old aimpoint 2000's on an old beater 22 for critter control and its taken it's share of abuse. Its been a damn long time since I can Remember changing the batteries. Very good product.

[BritinUSA]

Just got an Aimpoint Micro for my Tanfoglio Open Gun. It's a great little sight, they are pricey but you get what you pay for.... it's worth every penny.

[kellyn]

Don't want to rain on any parades but I'm going to take contrarian view. Aimpoints are fantastic battle sights and in my experience more durable than Eotechs. They also have better glass than Eotechs and more reliable adjustments. That being said they have not been as successful as a 3 gun competition sight vis a vis ACOGs or lowpowered variables or even Eotechs. They have no magnification and a 3X magnifier will make your 2 MOA dot into a 6 MOA dot (roughly 18 inches at 300!) and a 4X magnifier will make your 2 MOA dot into an 8 MOA dot (roughly 24 inches at 300!!!!). That might be ok for humanoid sized targets but that's getting awful tough to hit a 10 in plate.

I would highly recommend one for a duty gun but not so much for a 3 gun rifle. I'll eat you alive with my MKIV 1.5-5X.

[BritinUSA]

You can mount a magnifier at the front of an Aimpoint, your dot size stays the same but the view is magnified.

[kellyn]

You can mount a magnifier at the front of an Aimpoint, your dot size stays the same but the view is magnified.

Genius!!

[kurtm]

Here is another one. If your iron sight rifle is set up on a flat top, you can mount a N.V.D. between the front and rear sight and have a very accurate night vision set up out to about 200 yds.

[strojo]

I would highly recommend one for a duty gun but not so much for a 3 gun rifle. I'll eat you alive with my MKIV 1.5-5X.

Is illumination all that important for typical 3-gun matches, or could I get away with the MKIV without it and save a couple hundred bucks?

[topgunpilot20]

They have no magnification and a 3X magnifier will make your 2 MOA dot into a 6 MOA dot (roughly 18 inches at 300!) and a 4X magnifier will make your 2 MOA dot into an 8 MOA dot (roughly 24 inches at 300!!!!). That might be ok for humanoid sized targets but that's getting awful tough to hit a 10 in plate.

That is incorrect. The 3x magnifier triples the size of EVERYTHING--both the dot and the target. Even though the dot is bigger, the target is bigger too, so the 2 MOA dot still covers 2 inches at 100 yards.

Edited July 16, 2008 by topgunpilot20