Lead prices have fallen dramatically in last 6 months

[Bruce]

when will bullet prices reflect the fall?

[mjbine]

when will bullet prices reflect the fall?

As long as we keep buying them up the price will not drop.

[xcelr8hard]

when will bullet prices reflect the fall?

As long as we keep buying them up the price will not drop.

That was my original thought too, but I wonder how many fewer bullets have been purchased during the increases. There are probably many people not shooting as much as they would like. Sure hope to see the prices drop.

Butch

[J-Ho]

when will bullet prices reflect the fall?

As long as we keep buying them up the price will not drop.

Yes and no. Someone will start selling at a low price and clean up by selling huge volumes. Then others will follow suit.

[Sandro]

when will bullet prices reflect the fall?

Probably never! Unless someone is willing to take market share. The issue is that Zero doesn’t have bullets and Montana will charge whatever they want.

[el pres]

when will bullet prices reflect the fall?

As long as we keep buying them up the price will not drop.

Yes and no. Someone will start selling at a low price and clean up by selling huge volumes. Then others will follow suit.

Right !! For instance, a lot of us have switched to hard cast or moly coated bullets. the Companies that make our

previous bullet choices have lost in sales volume. They will have to lower their prices dramatically to get us back

since we learned how molys are the same thing for a lot less money !!!

[JThompson]

Lead http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_his...rge.html#5years

Copper http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_h...rge.html#5years

Copper is still up, but lead is way down and the amount of lead in stock looks good too... prices will fall or we buy some casting stuff and start making our own.

Edited May 28, 2008 by JThompson

[J-Ho]

when will bullet prices reflect the fall?

As long as we keep buying them up the price will not drop.

Yes and no. Someone will start selling at a low price and clean up by selling huge volumes. Then others will follow suit.

Right !! For instance, a lot of us have switched to hard cast or moly coated bullets. the Companies that make our

previous bullet choices have lost in sales volume. They will have to lower their prices dramatically to get us back

since we learned how molys are the same thing for a lot less money !!!

I've been paying $65/1000 for very good hardcast. Alittle smoky but not near as smoky as all that money going up in smoke. Market forces do not move as fast as pop culture. At least on the downside. That Capitalism. I've seen other methods, I'll stick with it.

[Bruce]

when will bullet prices reflect the fall?

Probably never! Unless someone is willing to take market share. The issue is that Zero doesn’t have bullets and Montana will charge whatever they want.

Just looked at Montana Gold price page...yep, you are right.

I wonder if a bunch of emails to MG about lead prices vs. bullet prices might help?

[Rob Boudrie]

The free market will sort this out - check out Precision Delta to get an idea what another supplier is charging.

[tightloop]

when will bullet prices reflect the fall?

You ARE kidding, aren't you?

[Flexmoney]

I wonder if a bunch of emails to MG about lead prices vs. bullet prices might help?

It would proably help you get put on the pain in the ass customer list that didn't get to buy any more bullets from them.

That might not be so bad. Think of all the money you could save by buying your own cheap lead and casting them yourself.

[warpspeed]

The free market will sort this out - check out Precision Delta to get an idea what another supplier is charging.

Rob is right.

Too much competition in the marketplace.

[Jim Norman]

While lead prices may be falling, that is not the only ingredient in making a bullet.

There is Copper for jackets.

And then there is ENERGY; to run the machines, to ship in the raw material, to ship out the finished product and to cause employees to want a raise just to cover the cost of getting to work.

If lead were free, there would still be a substaintial cost to making a bullet.

Jim

[Madcap Magician]

You guys are missing the fact that bullet/ammunition companies have figured out what the oil companies have figured out a long time ago..

[el pres]

You guys are missing the fact that bullet/ammunition companies have figured out what the oil companies have figured out a long time ago..

No, we did not forget anything we beat that one here before !!!

If we just stop buying anything for a year the prices would be great !!!

[Rob Boudrie]

Can anyone offer one logical reason why a supplier in their right mind would charge a lower price than the maximum amount the market will bear while still purchasing the entire production volume?

If you willingly pay it, it's not overpriced (in the economists sense of the word). It's only overpriced if buyers evaporate.

[AikiDale]

Any thing or service is worth exactly what one is willing to pay for it. I suspect if you are paying $4.00 for gasoline or $0.25 per cartridge that is what they are worth....to you, today.

[J-Ho]

Can anyone offer one logical reason why a supplier in their right mind would charge a lower price than the maximum amount the market will bear while still purchasing the entire production volume?

If you willingly pay it, it's not overpriced (in the economists sense of the word). It's only overpriced if buyers evaporate.

Why does Wal-Mart sell stuff cheap? Because by doing so they sell a gigantic buttload of product. They have much smaller margins than a mom and pop, but they make up for it, and then some, in volume. I think competitive shooters make up a pretty small market overall. Some of my non batsh!t crazy gun nut friends, who shoot every now and then, are buying a LOT less ammo. For them it means spending maybe a hundred dollars or so less. But there are a lot of people like that.

Then there is a small group of folks purchasing quite a bit of ammo overseas. This probably has an effect on prices as well. not to mention once this thing is over there will be plenty of surplus ammo again. We need to lower ammo prices by reducing the number of rounds fired over in the sandbox. With that in mind here's my new slogan:

Save the bullets,

Use more nukes!

[XRe]

With that in mind here's my new slogan:

Save the bullets,

Use more nukes!

Dude, I like your thinking !!!!

Let's just say this (lest I wander into verboten territory...) - the problem is more complicated than just simple market pressure..... however, market pressure will almost certainly keep prices driven to the lowest possible cost, simply due to competition. It may take some time for things to catch up (figure a 6 month lag). Prices aren't going to return to where they were before, though...

[boo radley]

It's a strange market.

I've long wondered who the hell is buying all those top-dollar bullets from Speer, Remington, Winchester, etc.? Hand-loader handgun fan types? Surely not us.

On the other end of the spectrum are the folks poisoning their families with casting operations in the garage, and apparently ready to go bankrupt if enough USPS flat-rate boxes burst, or go missing.

Who's left? Montana Gold. Great bullet, kinda pricey. Precision - moly, lead, can't meet demand. Then a couple alternatives that aren't justifiably cheaper vis-a-vis performance compared to MG, like Ranier, and Berry's and Precision Delta??

Forgetting the commodity price of lead -- where are all the players you think will step in and fill this need?

[AikiDale]

once this thing is over there will be plenty of surplus ammo again.

Here's to cheap surplus ammo!

[rubberneck]

The cost isn't being driven by the price of lead, copper, gas or even greed. The price is getting driven by a lack of capacity. It is as simple as that. Every manufacturer is running at 100% capacity right now and is struggling to keep up with demand. If we weren't fighting two wars at the same time and the military wasn't eating their way through over a billion rounds a month in support of those wars we would have a hell of a lot more capacity available to cater to the civilian market. Even though most of the companies don't directly support small munitions production for the military they are in the position to have to support a larger portion of the civilian market. How many more bullets can zero crank out a month? How many cases can Starline make? It comes to the point where they have nothing left to give but people still want their products. In this case we have too many dollars chasing too few goods, i.e. inflation.

[mwx40x40]

The cost isn't being driven by the price of lead, copper, gas or even greed. The price is getting driven by a lack of capacity. It is as simple as that. Every manufacturer is running at 100% capacity right now and is struggling to keep up with demand. If we weren't fighting two wars at the same time and the military wasn't eating their way through over a billion rounds a month in support of those wars we would have a hell of a lot more capacity available to cater to the civilian market. Even though most of the companies don't directly support small munitions production for the military they are in the position to have to support a larger portion of the civilian market. How many more bullets can zero crank out a month? How many cases can Starline make? It comes to the point where they have nothing left to give but people still want their products. In this case we have too many dollars chasing too few goods, i.e. inflation.

You would thing at a BILLION rounds a month that even if they hit one out of ten rounds fired there would not be anybody left to shoot at in a couple of months

[J-Ho]

The cost isn't being driven by the price of lead, copper, gas or even greed. The price is getting driven by a lack of capacity. It is as simple as that. Every manufacturer is running at 100% capacity right now and is struggling to keep up with demand. If we weren't fighting two wars at the same time and the military wasn't eating their way through over a billion rounds a month in support of those wars we would have a hell of a lot more capacity available to cater to the civilian market. Even though most of the companies don't directly support small munitions production for the military they are in the position to have to support a larger portion of the civilian market. How many more bullets can zero crank out a month? How many cases can Starline make? It comes to the point where they have nothing left to give but people still want their products. In this case we have too many dollars chasing too few goods, i.e. inflation.

You would thing at a BILLION rounds a month that even if they hit one out of ten rounds fired there would not be anybody left to shoot at in a couple of months

1 in 10. Not even close. I think it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 in 250,000. Someone could look it up, but ,if I remember right, it is some ungodly high number.