First USPSA Baby Steps

[mjoy64]

Hello all!

Well... I shot my first USPSA match last Saturday in LaGrange TX. I had a great time and much thanks to the folks that host the match for making me feel welcome! I have been shooting IDPA and Action Pistol (kind of a USPSA style match w/ IDPA targets and scoring) for about a year and wanted to branch out a little.

My First Impressions

1) I was comfortable w/ the course designs though I had a bit of nerves on the first stage (I always seem to get them when I shoot a new venue). I really, really liked one of the high round count hoser stages they set up at the match. Good fun!

2) I thought I'd need to mentally adjust to the different shaped A zone, but I found myself pretty unconcerned about it. Aim for center mass, pull trigger.

3) It was fun to see all of the tricked out gear and guns. It was especially cool seeing a few female shooters w/ their Open guns. I have a major bug for some new gun/equipment aquisitions as I get a sense for the advantages and disadvantages. I shot the Production class w/ my IDPA setup (stock M&P9 w/ Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster). While I was competitive in my class I only shot around 40% for the match (hello D class?).

4) It seems odd to me that shooting classification includes all divisions of shooters, i.e. I would eventually get classified relative to the shooters with the hottest open guns/rigs. I still can't say I *totally* understand how the stages are scored, but I get the general idea of scoring the hits vs. IDPA of scoring hits down. Add all the major/minor stuff and it gets a little hazy. I'll get there!

5) Due to fund limitations, I'm going to shoot Limited minor (instead of production) for a while. I've ordered a couple of +6 mag extensions (w/ new springs) and am sending off the M&P for a trigger job and new sites (FS speed shooter specialties fiber object and RS by Burwell Gunsmithing). I'm considering a ported Storm Lake replacement barrel though I really have no idea how much difference it would make on a 9mm where the recoil isn't really much anyway. Even though I'll probably not do as well w/in division, I think I'll be able to shoot a higher classification percentage w/o all the mag changes.

Anyway, I've been lurking, reading, and learning for a little while here. I thought I'd finally say "hello". Any thoughts for a newb would be welcome!

Mike

[BritinUSA]

Classification is by division. If you shot in Production then you are competing against only Production shooters. Some clubs will publish 'combined' results so people can see where they would have ended up regardless of what division they shot in.

USPSA Classification is also by division. So will be classified as a comparison of other Production Shooters and not Open, Limited etc.

Sounds like you enjoyed your first match...

[G-ManBart]

Welcome Mike!

A couple of quick comments. If you put a ported barrel in your gun you'll get pushed into Open class...probably not a great plan.

Classifications are only within Divisions (same style of guns) so you're really only competing against others with the same gear. Shooting your current setup in Production would be a very smart idea. Your gun is one of the most popular Production guns just the way it is...okay, some trigger work won't hurt, but it's not even all that necessary. In Limited it would be at a significant disadvantage scoring minor and not having a larger mag capacity (20-22 rounds is pretty common for Limited guns in .40 shooting major).

The confusion comes when you shoot a match and they post combined results...it looks like you're competing against everyone, but you aren't really.

If you were to compare identical scores on a classifier, one in Limited and one in Production, the percentage would actually be lower for Limited....they've already factored in things like additional reloads for Production guns. So, if you shoot your gun Limited Minor you're likely to get a lower classification than you would if you shot it in Production.

The absolute best thing is probably just to shoot some more matches with your current rig, go to www.uspsa.org and read the rules (not that long) and most of your questions will be answered.

Minor versus Major....short version is an A scores the same in both (5pts). B or C hits with major are 4pts. B or C hits with minor are 3pts. D hits are 2pts with major and 1pt with minor. Production division is all minor regardless of caliber. Single Stack, Limited and Limited-10 can be minor or major, but require .40 or larger for major. Open can be major or minor with a minimum bore size of 9mm....so it's the one place you can shoot 9mm major.

[ChrisStock]

Mike,

Welcome aboard! My wife calls this sport "Lead Crack". I've only been in this for a year, so my thoughts from when I first started are still relatively fresh. You have a leg up on me having competed competitively before, whereas I came in cold.

1.Safety is always issue one at a match, and folks will warm up to you a lot quicker if you're not a walking 180 hazard.

2. I too lurked here for a bit before venturing out to a match. It was drilled into me "Don't worry about your speed, get your hits". I thought " OK, understood". THAT plan went out the window at the first buzzer. I still wrestle with it occasionally, but am more cognizant about that particular issue. That doesn't mean take 20 seconds to put a popper down... if it's that difficult, move on to the next target array.

3.I find it helps speed up the learning process by asking better shooters how they plan on shooting a stage and why they think it's best. I have made mental plans, then seen an M and GM shooter attack it completely different from what I thought was best. They've seen thousands and thousands of courses vs. my hundred and change. Their method may not be best for you at this point in your competition life, but file it away... it will be useful down the road.

4. If at all possible, get yourself to an M or GM who teaches. In my case, I won 2 days of training with Eric Stanley, and it was a real eye opener. So many little nuances go into something as simple as moving from box to box. I would never have been aware of these things until it was shown to me. There are a million little things that make up a 12 second stage. Having someone break them down for you is incredible.

Like I said, I've only been at it a year, but that's my $.02 from my vantage point.

[chirpy]

G-manBart makes good sence. Shoot Production until you are proficient and have a "Classification" and how you compare with other Production shooters. See if the club you just shot at has a practice night during the week or evev another club so that you can practice without "Match Pressure/Nerves".

Welcome,

Richard

[Paul Burtchell]

My friend Mike is being modest. He shot very well, I believe he actually won overall in Production.

Definitely do not get the ported barrel, Mike. As G-manBart stated it would throw you into Open.

I'm glad you took me up on shooting a USPSA match. It was a great day. No turning back now !!!

Edited May 6, 2008 by baerburtchell

[mjoy64]

Mike,

Welcome aboard! My wife calls this sport "Lead Crack". I've only been in this for a year, so my thoughts from when I first started are still relatively fresh. You have a leg up on me having competed competitively before, whereas I came in cold.

1.Safety is always issue one at a match, and folks will warm up to you a lot quicker if you're not a walking 180 hazard.

2. I too lurked here for a bit before venturing out to a match. It was drilled into me "Don't worry about your speed, get your hits". I thought " OK, understood". THAT plan went out the window at the first buzzer. I still wrestle with it occasionally, but am more cognizant about that particular issue. That doesn't mean take 20 seconds to put a popper down... if it's that difficult, move on to the next target array.

3.I find it helps speed up the learning process by asking better shooters how they plan on shooting a stage and why they think it's best. I have made mental plans, then seen an M and GM shooter attack it completely different from what I thought was best. They've seen thousands and thousands of courses vs. my hundred and change. Their method may not be best for you at this point in your competition life, but file it away... it will be useful down the road.

4. If at all possible, get yourself to an M or GM who teaches. In my case, I won 2 days of training with Eric Stanley, and it was a real eye opener. So many little nuances go into something as simple as moving from box to box. I would never have been aware of these things until it was shown to me. There are a million little things that make up a 12 second stage. Having someone break them down for you is incredible.

Like I said, I've only been at it a year, but that's my $.02 from my vantage point.

Lead Crack ha! Ain't that the truth. I sometimes wonder if it's one of those "you are" or "you aren't" things. I picked up my first handgun a year ago, shot an IDPA match a week later and was hooked!

[mjoy64]

Welcome Mike!

A couple of quick comments. If you put a ported barrel in your gun you'll get pushed into Open class...probably not a great plan.

Classifications are only within Divisions (same style of guns) so you're really only competing against others with the same gear. Shooting your current setup in Production would be a very smart idea. Your gun is one of the most popular Production guns just the way it is...okay, some trigger work won't hurt, but it's not even all that necessary. In Limited it would be at a significant disadvantage scoring minor and not having a larger mag capacity (20-22 rounds is pretty common for Limited guns in .40 shooting major).

The confusion comes when you shoot a match and they post combined results...it looks like you're competing against everyone, but you aren't really.

If you were to compare identical scores on a classifier, one in Limited and one in Production, the percentage would actually be lower for Limited....they've already factored in things like additional reloads for Production guns. So, if you shoot your gun Limited Minor you're likely to get a lower classification than you would if you shot it in Production.

The absolute best thing is probably just to shoot some more matches with your current rig, go to www.uspsa.org and read the rules (not that long) and most of your questions will be answered.

Minor versus Major....short version is an A scores the same in both (5pts). B or C hits with major are 4pts. B or C hits with minor are 3pts. D hits are 2pts with major and 1pt with minor. Production division is all minor regardless of caliber. Single Stack, Limited and Limited-10 can be minor or major, but require .40 or larger for major. Open can be major or minor with a minimum bore size of 9mm....so it's the one place you can shoot 9mm major.

Bart,

That really clears up the confusion I had as far a classification and minor vs. major scoring is concerned. I'm also glad you guys let me know about how ported barrels affect your division. Yep, that does not sound like a great plan at all. It will still be tempting to shoot *some* Limited with the mags sporting the Arredondo +6 base plates. I'd have 23 + 1 and that just sounds like a lot of fun!

Thanks for the info.

[G-ManBart]

It will still be tempting to shoot *some* Limited with the mags sporting the Arredondo +6 base plates. I'd have 23 + 1 and that just sounds like a lot of fun!

Just wait till someone hands you an Open gun at 29+1 and you'll really be in trouble

[Jman]

Welcome. Glad to hear your first impression was a positive one. How about all the tips and advice here so far? Amazing ain't it. Mike if you haven't, please seriously consider joining USPSA. You can join on-line at http://www.uspsa.org

Stick with Production. By far the smallest financial impact of all our divisions. At least small for now.

The game can be "spendy".

Jim M

[Paul Burtchell]

Welcome. Glad to hear your first impression was a positive one. How about all the tips and advice here so far? Amazing ain't it. Mike if you haven't, please seriously consider joining USPSA. You can join on-line at http://www.uspsa.org

Stick with Production. By far the smallest financial impact of all our divisions. At least small for now.

The game can be "spendy".

Jim M

Dang Jimmy, and I thought I just about had Mike talked into to buying one of my Benny Blasters Edited May 7, 2008 by baerburtchell

[photog]

Don't shoot Limited minor! It's not worth it. If you get serious about USPSA, you will wind up buying a Limited gun in .40. That's just the way it is. Ask here on this board if ANY serious competitor doesn't have a .40 limited gun, I would bet MOST is not ALL guys who shoot in more than one division have a .40 (or .45) Limited rig.

Limited and L-10 Minor is really only for Major shooters whose ammo doesn't meet Power Factor. Or for the occasional guy who shows up with grip tape on his Glock 9mm.

My .02 is pick a division that you would like to compete in and buy a gun that is PERFECT for that division. Want to shoot Open? Buy a comped, scoped, tricked out gun in 38 super or 9mm major that will be competitive! Want to Shoot Limited? Buy a double stack .40 and extended mags. Want to shoot production? Either use what you got and be happy (just buy more mags and holders and get really fast at changing mags) or buy a 9mm Glock, XD, CZ 75, etc.

I got the bug too, and bought a Limited gun, you can read about it here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64652

The Witness is about the least expensive Limited gun thats out there. Since Limited allows a good deal of modifications, you'll be competing against folks who have spent considerable time and money on their rigs.

Production has a more level playing field, and you won't be competing against "race" guns. If you really want to compete and do well, call up your favorite bullet distributer and order 10k of projectiles and primers, 8lbs of powder and crank out more ammo than you think you will ever shoot. Weird thing is, you WILL shoot all those rounds!

[Jman]

Welcome. Glad to hear your first impression was a positive one. How about all the tips and advice here so far? Amazing ain't it. Mike if you haven't, please seriously consider joining USPSA. You can join on-line at http://www.uspsa.org

Stick with Production. By far the smallest financial impact of all our divisions. At least small for now.

The game can be "spendy".

Jim M

Dang Jimmy, and I thought I just about had Mike talked into to buying one of my Benny Blasters

All in good time. He'll buy one soon enough.

Jim M

[mjoy64]

Welcome. Glad to hear your first impression was a positive one. How about all the tips and advice here so far? Amazing ain't it. Mike if you haven't, please seriously consider joining USPSA. You can join on-line at http://www.uspsa.org

Stick with Production. By far the smallest financial impact of all our divisions. At least small for now.

The game can be "spendy".

Jim M

All of the information here is amazing. I'll share my favorite one so far (might not be the exact wording)... "the feeling of speed comes from chaos in your mind". After I let that one marinate for a while I considered that one of the more enlightening comments I've ever read. I was giving Paul (baerburtchell) a hard time at last weeks match. He completed a COF and I walked up and told him it looked good, how were your hits? He didn't like the run and said he was slow. I asked him... "What?? Not enough chaos in your mind!?". We laughed. As a matter of fact he shot that stage VERY well. It just goes to show that our perception of speed and the reality of the situation often do not go hand in hand.

fyi... I did join USPSA. I should get my member number in about a week or so. Good advice!

After reading several comments, it does appear the smart thing to do is stick with Production near term. I'll save the way cool extendo mags for my Action Pistol match where there isn't a major/minor difference.

Mike

[mjoy64]

Don't shoot Limited minor! It's not worth it. If you get serious about USPSA, you will wind up buying a Limited gun in .40. That's just the way it is. Ask here on this board if ANY serious competitor doesn't have a .40 limited gun, I would bet MOST is not ALL guys who shoot in more than one division have a .40 (or .45) Limited rig.

Limited and L-10 Minor is really only for Major shooters whose ammo doesn't meet Power Factor. Or for the occasional guy who shows up with grip tape on his Glock 9mm.

My .02 is pick a division that you would like to compete in and buy a gun that is PERFECT for that division. Want to shoot Open? Buy a comped, scoped, tricked out gun in 38 super or 9mm major that will be competitive! Want to Shoot Limited? Buy a double stack .40 and extended mags. Want to shoot production? Either use what you got and be happy (just buy more mags and holders and get really fast at changing mags) or buy a 9mm Glock, XD, CZ 75, etc.

I got the bug too, and bought a Limited gun, you can read about it here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64652

The Witness is about the least expensive Limited gun thats out there. Since Limited allows a good deal of modifications, you'll be competing against folks who have spent considerable time and money on their rigs.

Production has a more level playing field, and you won't be competing against "race" guns. If you really want to compete and do well, call up your favorite bullet distributer and order 10k of projectiles and primers, 8lbs of powder and crank out more ammo than you think you will ever shoot. Weird thing is, you WILL shoot all those rounds!

Nice writeup on your Limited rig. What you say makes perfect sense about not shooting Limited minor. As far as cranking out the ammo... I'm with you there. I've got a bunch of things on my list of things I want to aquire. A Dillon 650 is up there!

Mike

[cnote]

Don't shoot Limited minor! It's not worth it. If you get serious about USPSA, you will wind up buying a Limited gun in .40. That's just the way it is. Ask here on this board if ANY serious competitor doesn't have a .40 limited gun, I would bet MOST is not ALL guys who shoot in more than one division have a .40 (or .45) Limited rig.

Limited and L-10 Minor is really only for Major shooters whose ammo doesn't meet Power Factor. Or for the occasional guy who shows up with grip tape on his Glock 9mm.

My .02 is pick a division that you would like to compete in and buy a gun that is PERFECT for that division. Want to shoot Open? Buy a comped, scoped, tricked out gun in 38 super or 9mm major that will be competitive! Want to Shoot Limited? Buy a double stack .40 and extended mags. Want to shoot production? Either use what you got and be happy (just buy more mags and holders and get really fast at changing mags) or buy a 9mm Glock, XD, CZ 75, etc.

I got the bug too, and bought a Limited gun, you can read about it here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64652

The Witness is about the least expensive Limited gun thats out there. Since Limited allows a good deal of modifications, you'll be competing against folks who have spent considerable time and money on their rigs.

Production has a more level playing field, and you won't be competing against "race" guns. If you really want to compete and do well, call up your favorite bullet distributer and order 10k of projectiles and primers, 8lbs of powder and crank out more ammo than you think you will ever shoot. Weird thing is, you WILL shoot all those rounds!

I got myself a CR speed belt and mag pouches for my production set up and just got the holster at the same time, knowing i would eventually save up for a Limited gun. We have all steel tournements around here that play by USPSA divisions and rules. I shoot my 9mm, with the entire rig, in them and do fine.

Other than the disadvantage of minor scoring, why wouldn't I try it out in limited to get a "feel" for the division. It would also definitely help me by making me slow down a bit to hit all "A's" focusing on the 90-95% "shoot A's" goal I have read about. My ego isn't so large that I can't sometimes take a little beating in Limited

I know where I stand in production and single stack. I was thinking of shooting my SS in L-10 major with the rig also. The dedicated limited gun is in the future, just not yet due to $$$$.

Any opinions would be appreciated, thanks

Thanks

[Revopop]

I would also recommend reading Brian's book, Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals. It's available in the store, but I wouldn't be surprised if Baerburtchell already has a copy you can borrow.

I've actually been shooting USPSA for more than 3 years, but I've only recently actually become serious about improvement now that I've moved to an area with many more shooting opportunities. I read Brian's book a couple of months ago and it is incredibly illuminating. I thought a lot of it was over my head, but after a couple matches and range practice sessions it's making a helluva lot more sense and I'm shooting far better than I ever have. Ever. I highly recommend it.

[Paul Burtchell]

I would also recommend reading Brian's book, Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals. It's available in the store, but I wouldn't be surprised if Baerburtchell already has a copy you can borrow.

I've actually been shooting USPSA for more than 3 years, but I've only recently actually become serious about improvement now that I've moved to an area with many more shooting opportunities. I read Brian's book a couple of months ago and it is incredibly illuminating. I thought a lot of it was over my head, but after a couple matches and range practice sessions it's making a helluva lot more sense and I'm shooting far better than I ever have. Ever. I highly recommend it.

Yep, I've got a copy and Mike you are more than welcome to it. Like Glockopop say's, it is incredibly illuminating. I learn something new it seems every time I read it.

Edited May 7, 2008 by baerburtchell

[Jman]

I would also recommend reading Brian's book, Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals. It's available in the store, but I wouldn't be surprised if Baerburtchell already has a copy you can borrow.

I've actually been shooting USPSA for more than 3 years, but I've only recently actually become serious about improvement now that I've moved to an area with many more shooting opportunities. I read Brian's book a couple of months ago and it is incredibly illuminating. I thought a lot of it was over my head, but after a couple matches and range practice sessions it's making a helluva lot more sense and I'm shooting far better than I ever have. Ever. I highly recommend it.

Yep, I've got a copy and Mike you are more than welcome to it. Like Glockopop say's, it is incredibly illuminating. I learn something new it seems every time I read it.

Let him use your copy of Steve Anderson's Refinement and Repetition too . It's the bible of dryfire practice. A must.

He might get a better price if he buys both from Brians store site.

Jim M

Edited May 7, 2008 by JimmyM

[Paul Burtchell]

I would also recommend reading Brian's book, Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals. It's available in the store, but I wouldn't be surprised if Baerburtchell already has a copy you can borrow.

I've actually been shooting USPSA for more than 3 years, but I've only recently actually become serious about improvement now that I've moved to an area with many more shooting opportunities. I read Brian's book a couple of months ago and it is incredibly illuminating. I thought a lot of it was over my head, but after a couple matches and range practice sessions it's making a helluva lot more sense and I'm shooting far better than I ever have. Ever. I highly recommend it.

Yep, I've got a copy and Mike you are more than welcome to it. Like Glockopop say's, it is incredibly illuminating. I learn something new it seems every time I read it.

Let him use your copy of Steve Anderson's Refinement and Repetition too . It's the bible of dryfire practice. A must.

He might get a better price if he buys both from Brians store site.

Jim M

Alright, this is kinda scary. How do you guys know I have this stuff????

Mike, you are welcome to my Steve Anderson books and my Saul Kirsch book too.

[mjoy64]

I would also recommend reading Brian's book, Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals. It's available in the store, but I wouldn't be surprised if Baerburtchell already has a copy you can borrow.

I've actually been shooting USPSA for more than 3 years, but I've only recently actually become serious about improvement now that I've moved to an area with many more shooting opportunities. I read Brian's book a couple of months ago and it is incredibly illuminating. I thought a lot of it was over my head, but after a couple matches and range practice sessions it's making a helluva lot more sense and I'm shooting far better than I ever have. Ever. I highly recommend it.

Yep, I've got a copy and Mike you are more than welcome to it. Like Glockopop say's, it is incredibly illuminating. I learn something new it seems every time I read it.

Let him use your copy of Steve Anderson's Refinement and Repetition too . It's the bible of dryfire practice. A must.

He might get a better price if he buys both from Brians store site.

Jim M

Alright, this is kinda scary. How do you guys know I have this stuff????

Mike, you are welcome to my Steve Anderson books and my Saul Kirsch book too.

Muchas gracias!

[steveknapp]

Lead Crack ha! Ain't that the truth. I sometimes wonder if it's one of those "you are" or "you aren't" things. I picked up my first handgun a year ago, shot an IDPA match a week later and was hooked!

I got into shooting pistol, but grew tired of indoor ranges and holes in paper. I had read about practical shooting (this was ~94) and wanted to try it, but never did.

Started shooting sporting clays (also a blast BTW), and then bought a 22 pistol for plinking, the local trap club has practical shoots, so I got the 9mm.

Now I'm limited by just the time.

It is crack.

[leam]

Minor thread hi-jack. Am I correct in reading that with my stock SIG SP2022 in .40 S&W I should look at Production class? I'm currently an IDPA shooter but willing to get beaten by more people. A friend is printing out the USPSA rulebook for me. If I move to a Glock 17 or 34 in 9mm would the "Production" suggestion remain? Are their ammo loads or power factors I need to consider?

Thanks!

Leam

[Derwoodski]

Minor thread hi-jack. Am I correct in reading that with my stock SIG SP2022 in .40 S&W I should look at Production class? I'm currently an IDPA shooter but willing to get beaten by more people. A friend is printing out the USPSA rulebook for me. If I move to a Glock 17 or 34 in 9mm would the "Production" suggestion remain? Are their ammo loads or power factors I need to consider?

Thanks!

Leam

for sure production if you go with a 34 in 9mm, The Sig in .40 you could shoot prod or limited 10, not limited mainly because of round capacity. In limited you want 18-20 rounds per mag, and the mag has to fit into certain size restrictions. For power factor, loading 9 for minor (example with 124gr bullets you need 1008 fps to make minor) reduces recoil over Winchester white box (115 gr bullets somewhere in the 1200 fps range). Minor is 125 (bullet weight X fps/100) major is 165

Edited May 30, 2008 by Derwoodski

[Matt Griffin]

The best bang-for-buck as far as gear goes is to have a .40 that you like that has the capability to go up to 19+ rounds in a mag (with extension, obviously) and can stay Production legal as well. That lets you play in Prod, L10, and Limited with the same gun. Open, Single Stack, and Revolver all obviously require another separate purchase, so for my money something like a G35 that you can reload minor rounds for Production is the ticket. Removeable magwell, some good sights, and you're ready to go.

H.