Charles Bond Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 higher penalities for misses are in essence bonuses for hits on long range targets! That gives the shooter the incentive to make the effort, concentrate, read the wind and elevation and hit it, and not just make a half a$$ attempt or even worse, game it, throw one round and move on.Relating 3gun to real life has been hashed out, it isn't even close to the same, so there is no comparison. It is a competition to see who is best at what is presented, not surviving a firefight. I respectfully disagree. Receiving a higher penalty for misses at distant targets without any increase in value for hitting the targets actually changes the entire nature of the match. What you stand to lose is more than you stand to gain by hitting and the balance of speed/accuracy is removed. This is all the more true if only specific targets on a stage are treated in such a manner. Unlike golf, tennis, basketball, etc we attempt to write rules that make some sense. Even then, what sport imposes a higher penalty for failure at a more difficult shot or play than an easier shot or play? What I see here is akin to taking the 3 point line in basketball and awarding 3 points inside the line and 2 points outside the line if we accept the proposition that "higher penalities for misses are in essence bonuses for hits on long range targets". I agree that nothing we do is really about surviving a firefight but rather about accuracy and speed in achieving it. I just do not think you accomplish these goals by writing rules that impose higher penalties for misses on difficult long shots and by imposing a lessor penalty for misses on closer shots since by so doing you actually say that the miss on the easier shot excused/. Put another way, we encourage speed to the expense of accuracy on the close in and encourage accuracy at the expense of speed on the far targets which is no real improvement over the problem this rules revision attempts to address which is accurate shots perhaps at he expense of speed on close in targets then speed with no accuracy on the far targets. Maybe you solve the problem I state with an equal number of close in regular penalty shots and long range high penalty shots but due to the fact that it takes so much time to score longer range stuff, to do so would all but guarantee a small round count stage and we both know that the changes of MDs doing that is slim to none. Regardless of the rules I will be there and have a great time but I very much doubt that this rule set is going to endear itself to the majority of the 3 gun crowd. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 In the long run I think that the proliferation of multi-gun rules will hurt us, especially since it seems like pretty much every match is moving towards having their own rules. Well said! USPSA has worked very hard to write a set of rules under which all 3 gun and mulit gun matches could unite and as you point out in an earlier portion of the same post, the problem cited at the Reno match would not happen under the current rules and if it did it would be a stage design failure rather than a rules failure. The problem is that at least so far, getting the independent matches to use the same rules is about as easy as turning lead into gold. Unfortunately, no match has as comprehensive a set of rules as USPSA and they all recognize it since when the write their special version of 3 guns rules they will almost always state something to the effect of incorporation of USPSA safety rules into their version. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LChico Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Perhaps I wasn't clear. The rules are finalized. If you are interested in debating the merits of the new scoring system, please see the thread on "new" scoring method. If you have specific questions about anything about the match, including rules at Ft Benning or how they will be applied, I will be happy to answer them here. Linda Chico (L-2035) 2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistici Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Good to see the match hotel moved.......puts certain things out of walking distance..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 SFC Hampton, Can we stay at on-post lodging? Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recon215 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Good to see the match hotel moved.......puts certain things out of walking distance..... The match hotel moved? Where is it now? Closer to base or further away? Why the change, I thought the other hotel was just fine? Hmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Don't worry Randal. We'll find you a nice adult entertainment establishment that is within staggering distance from the new match motel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LChico Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Good to see the match hotel moved.......puts certain things out of walking distance..... The match hotel moved? Where is it now? Closer to base or further away? Why the change, I thought the other hotel was just fine? Hmmmmmmmm You were obviously not one of the people who arrived at the front desk to find the confirmed reservation you had made 6 months in advance was "not there" (me & Sandra). Perhaps your room did not have cracked tile in the bathroom, stains on the rug, dim lighting, inconsistant internet access, and a door that had to be slammed to shut it. I've promised myself NEVER to stay at the Holiday Inn on Machester Expy again. The hotel did not have space set aside for registration (that was in our contract) and did not have a space for me to post results Friday & Saturday (again, in the contract). And, on top of that, the price went up by $12 to $30 this year. Paying $92 to $119 for crappy service & crappy rooms was a bit too much. The Holiday Inn Express is 3 miles further down the interstate (Old hotel = exit 7 & new hotel = exit 10). A large number of shooters and sponsors stayed there last year. It is a relatively new hotel, NICE rooms & close to places to have dinner or have a drink with fellow shooters after the day on the range. They have heard the entire sad story about our complaints from last year & are really working to be sure that doesn't happen at their hotel. The average nightly rates are $125 to $170, so the $109 per night represents a significant savings over the usual cost of the rooms (that price is for suites, too -- so that you could have a suite with 2 queen beds plus a sleeper sofa). Everyone is welcome to stay at another location, but registration & posted results will be at the host hotel. Linda Chico (L-2035) 2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Reid Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Don't worry Randal. We'll find you a nice adult entertainment establishment that is within staggering distance from the new match motel. Yeah Stefan, maybe we'll even be close to a 2 lane highway with shorter curb heights preferably with a nice grassy LZ beside it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 The thought for the day is : If the Ft Benning Three Gun Challenge was not worth attending there would not be now 200 posts on this forum about it six months in advance of the match! Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Good to see the match hotel moved.......puts certain things out of walking distance..... You were obviously not one of the people who arrived at the front desk to find the confirmed reservation you had made 6 months in advance was "not there" (me & Sandra). Perhaps your room did not have cracked tile in the bathroom, stains on the rug, dim lighting, inconsistant internet access, and a door that had to be slammed to shut it. I've promised myself NEVER to stay at the Holiday Inn on Machester Expy again. Rooms??? We had Rooms.....Yeah, that dang 12 lane Manchester Expressway and its 4 ft median REALLY SUCKS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I moved about 16 posts discussing the scoring system to the other thread already available for that topic. Let's give Linda a break and keep this one on track as a tool for discussing the match. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Good to see the match hotel moved.......puts certain things out of walking distance..... The match hotel moved? Where is it now? Closer to base or further away? Why the change, I thought the other hotel was just fine? Hmmmmmmmm You were obviously not one of the people who arrived at the front desk to find the confirmed reservation you had made 6 months in advance was "not there" (me & Sandra). Perhaps your room did not have cracked tile in the bathroom, stains on the rug, dim lighting, inconsistant internet access, and a door that had to be slammed to shut it. I've promised myself NEVER to stay at the Holiday Inn on Machester Expy again. The hotel did not have space set aside for registration (that was in our contract) and did not have a space for me to post results Friday & Saturday (again, in the contract). And, on top of that, the price went up by $12 to $30 this year. Paying $92 to $119 for crappy service & crappy rooms was a bit too much. The Holiday Inn Express is 3 miles further down the interstate (Old hotel = exit 7 & new hotel = exit 10). A large number of shooters and sponsors stayed there last year. It is a relatively new hotel, NICE rooms & close to places to have dinner or have a drink with fellow shooters after the day on the range. They have heard the entire sad story about our complaints from last year & are really working to be sure that doesn't happen at their hotel. The average nightly rates are $125 to $170, so the $109 per night represents a significant savings over the usual cost of the rooms (that price is for suites, too -- so that you could have a suite with 2 queen beds plus a sleeper sofa). Everyone is welcome to stay at another location, but registration & posted results will be at the host hotel. Linda Chico (L-2035) 2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician Thanks for the hotel horror stories. I made reservations at last years hotel as soon as I received my confirmation number. After reading these stories, I will try to get a room at the new hotel instead. Edited June 20, 2008 by HRider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Gladstone Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Last years hotel lost our reservations also and as a result put us in smoking rooms then they checked us out after one night locking us out of our rooms. This change is very welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Hey Linda, Where's the match hotel agian? I just want to make sure Tiny Tina knows where Randal will be staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LChico Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Hey Linda, Where's the match hotel agian? I just want to make sure Tiny Tina knows where Randal will be staying. Not sure that "passed out in the back of the vehicle" will get her there. . . I do have faith in Randal's ability to find 'interesting' places to party Linda Chico (L-2035) 2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician Edited June 20, 2008 by LChico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 (edited) Hey Linda, Where's the match hotel agian? I just want to make sure Tiny Tina knows where Randal will be staying. Not sure that "passed out in the back of the vehicle" will get her there. . . I do have faith in Randal's ability to find 'interesting' places to party Linda Chico (L-2035) 2008 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician HEY, I wasn't passed out.......but I do recall someone from across the big pond NODDING off during the entertainment...........I was ONLY cat napping on the way to the long range stage the next morning.......And I do not know how I got associated with Tiny Tina as I was hanging out on stage left...I think HEAVEN was the name......AND Stefan I believe you were right there with me...actually we were the ONLY ones left..........I may think about trying to focus on the shooting this year....HELL, I go to every match with this intention but somehow I always get sidetracked.......damn BEER!! SEE, this is much more interesting than bitching bout silly rules, prize tables and shooting..... Edited June 21, 2008 by DrawandDuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 AND on the Other end of the spectrum............... The poor Brits get carded at HOOTERS and since they have no "Drivers liscence" they are not served alcoholic beverages !!!! We'll know next time though (go elswhere) Hop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 It wasn't Hooters policy it was that Hooters policy. Besides watching them pout was priceless!!!!! trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Kitty Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Hey, that's my boyfriend you are talking about! Mike: Thanks again for the chocolate.... Hey Randal, will "Te-yum" be there? He loved the way you caressed his neck in the truck at the MS Classic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Hey Traps, play nice..... its my back yard you will be playing in in 3 weeks ! Anyhow I would love to see your look when they say you cant have your whiskey and coke cos you cant prove you are over 18 !! That night was a strange one for sure, and I was only resting my eyes - after I had seen Tiny Tina my eyes couldnt take any more ! Thanks Ms Kitty, you are the best. Ditch the Boy Wonder and come over here - you are wasted there x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I can always prove I'm over 18, you should always have proof of who you are. you never know when it will benefit you. Besides I'd just get you to order it and steal it from you!!!!! See you soon buddy................Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 For those of you looking for a warm up match for the FB3G, here is your best and closest opportunity: The Area 6 3 Gun will be November 7-9th at South River Gun Club. You can get an entry blank here Entry_Form__2008_A6_3Gun_V3.pdf ( 106.56K ) Number of downloads: 20 We will have more info soon. ROs will be shooting on Friday and there will be a few Friday slots open for competitors, but most competitors will be shooting Saturday/Sunday. It's not finalized yet, but you will probably shoot 6 stages on Saturday and 4 on Sunday. Plans are to have rifle shots out to 300 yds too. More info to come! Hope to see ya'll there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 OK Linda the calm after the "one second sign up" storm has settled in a little bit. I have been thinking (warning) about how much hub bub was happening for the sign in. Page after page of people getting ready to sign in and sign up. Then after the "magic" moment the pages of "I'm in" or people listing thier waiting list number and hoping to get in....I really expect to see some of those waiting list numbers come up on ebay one of these days for $10,000.00 How about a "sign in side match" next year? You could base it on the times from the sign in times and we would have a match before the match! You could call it the SISM. Knowing the competitive nature of the FB3G crowd, people would build super computers (Merlin) to win the SISM. This way if you cant shoot that great you could still be the winner of the FTB3G SISM match! The Winner of the SISM would be based on lowest time +penalty's, said winner would walk the vertual prize table loaded with goodies. Let me the first to donate some prize table items: I can forward ~1000 twice fired Major 9 brass and two pair of slightly used ear plugs. But seriously Happy 4th of July to all involved with the FTB3G! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Just to tweak the above post from SLOWSURE a tad, why not do away with the miss penalty on the 600 yard targets altogether and instead just say that anyone who does not hit them can not return to the FB3G Match in 2009? I believe this would cause more long range practice than any miss penality on the stage ever could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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