Chase Bank

[benos]

A customer placed an order through my webstore for

$14.94. Then his credit card was compromised. His bank, Chase, sent him a list of charges to approve or disapprove. He approved the BrianEnos.com charge. (And disapproved 4 other obvious fraud charges on the sheet they sent me.)

So then I get a chargeback from my processor. I call them and explain that this is a mistake, because we're both looking at a piece of paper where the customer approved the charge from BrianEnos.com. The support person says she can't really explain why I received a chargeback notification, but to go ahead and fax in all the supporting documentation anyway. And be sure to call back in a few days to make sure they received the documentation and that the chargeback was reversed.

So I faxed all the supporting proof of sale documentation to my processor, including the piece of paper that had the customer's approval for his charge. My processor forwards that to Chase - and Chase approved the chargeback anyway!!! Their "reason" was that my Merchant Account lists me as "Retail Account" which means I do "face-to-face" transactions - so since I did not provide a receipt with a card swipe - they approved the chargeback. That is the lamest, most insane excuse they could come up with. It's obvious that the customer made the purchase online, and, he approved the charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My processor said my merhcant account type is "Retail," which is the problem. Because of that, I should have been able to provide a "swiped" card receipt. BS.

I called my Merchant Service account, and found out I am listed as "Retail." So that's easy to change. I'm not sure why I was set up as Retail - maybe my sales rep got me a better rate that way, when he set my account up 8 years ago.

So I ask my processor how to contact Chase to dispute this. He tells me (and gives me a number) I can call them - but their policy is not to talk to merchants. What kind of BS is that!? I pay them money so their customers can spend money through their bank - And they won't talk to me!

I called the customer - and he's as irate as I am. He said tomorrow he's calling Chase and telling them that if they don't pay me his cancelling his credit card account with them. He also offered to pay me with a check or a new credit card. But it's not the 15 bucks I care about. I don't want the chargeback on my record - especially for such a lame-ass reason as this.

Several years ago, I had a Chase Mastercard. It got compromised, and they were a nightmare to deal with. I remember hating them by the time the whole experience was over. And during the process they're trying to sell me insurance! One of my BofA credit cards gets compromised about once a year or so. But they're awesome to deal with. They just take care of everything.

(Please don't drift the thread to BofA Hate - let's just hate Chase here.)

be

[JThompson]

They are a nightmare Brian... I got rid of them long ago and did the same for all my family and friends.

Check this... it's only a small part of the problems.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/credit_card...edit_cards.html

[benos]

They are a nightmare Brian... I got rid of them long ago and did the same for all my family and friends.

Check this... it's only a small part of the problems.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/credit_card...edit_cards.html

Wow! Thanks.

I posted (an edited version of) my Chase rant.

be

[AikiDale]

I have no reason to hate Chase personally, and thank you Brian for this rant; now I will resist the temptation to ever acquire a Chase account, despite the daily junk mail I get from them.

[bayoupirate]

TWO WORDS

PREDATORY LENDING

Edited March 12, 2008 by bayoupirate

[warpspeed]

Good luck BE. I've been in your shoes and dealing with charge backs is crazy sometimes.

IIRC, you get 1 per year and after that your rate goes up. a lot.

[Paul B]

It seems the bigger they are the harder they are to deal with. I cancelled my account with Chase a long time ago when we tried to order some items and they stopped the purchase. I called them and they asked me all kinds of weird questions about did I live in New Jersey and were generally evasive. I asked to speak to a supervisor who after about 15 minutes admitted it was a false alarm. I never used the card after that. I don't think they really wanted to keep me as I always pay the total balance off each month. In the credit card industry this makes you known as a "deadbeat."

Its interesting to me how these companies actually make commercials about how their fraud protection protects you when we all know our liability is very, very limited. The reason they have fraud protection is all for them. As if they weren't making enough money already.

Ask me in person and I'll tell you how I really feel.

[chp5]

It seems the bigger they are the harder they are to deal with.

No doubt. I have a Cabelas credit card. It's not just private labeled card from another giant bank, they actually have their own credit card company.

Here's an excerpt:

"Company Profile

World's Foremost Bank (WFB) is a subsidiary of Cabela's, the "World's Foremost Outfitter" of hunting and fishing gear and outdoor apparel. WFB is a federally chartered CEBA bank that issues consumer credit cards. Cabela's purchased part of the former National Bank of Commerce (NBC) / Cabela's CLUB portfolio and started business as the World's Foremost Bank on March 24, 2001. Most WFB staff members are based at the Cabela's Technology Center at 4800 NW 1st Street in Lincoln, Nebraska."

They are GREAT to deal with! If I call, a HUMAN actually picks up the phone. The best thing is that you get "Cabelas Points" for all purchases that can be used to buy shooting accessories, ammo, mags, etc.

I am not affiliated with Cabelas, but do believe we should all support merchants who sell anything shooting related - especially when they have great service.

Here's a link: Cabelas Visa

Edited March 13, 2008 by chp5

[JThompson]

Drift

A USPSA VISA card would be cool???

Edited March 13, 2008 by JThompson

[chp5]

Drift

A USPSA VISA card would be cool???

Yes, but unless USPSA buys a bank, it will only be a private labeled card that's actually with a big bank . . .

[JThompson]

Drift

A USPSA VISA card would be cool???

Yes, but unless USPSA buys a bank, it will only be a private labeled card that's actually with a big bank . . .

That's true, but it still would be nice to have a USPSA card.

Drift off.....

[MichiganShootist]

I spent over 30 years working in the card and electronic banking industry. Don't shoot me yet!!!!

One of the basic rules of all the associations (MasterCard VISA etc) is that you can only provide customer service to the person (or company) with whom you have a contractual relationship. If you give that concept a moments thought... it makes 100% sense.

That's why Chase can't (or won't) talk to you Brian. They have no legal relationship with you and if they discussed one of their customer's accounts with you... they would be open for law suits under all the privacy regulations. (damn lawyers again)

I know it stinks... but in this situation there is a reason they wouldn't work with you direct to get this resolved.

Lastly.. if the card is present at the sale... the risk of fraud is much lower so the merchant gets a lower rate for each transaction. The merchant bank tried to save you some money and ended up setting you up as "Retail".

I'm not defending the practices... just providing some insight from a guy who once ran a credit card program that processed will over a billion dollars in transactions each year.

[Miranda]

I spent over 30 years working in the card and electronic banking industry. Don't shoot me yet!!!!

One of the basic rules of all the associations (MasterCard VISA etc) is that you can only provide customer service to the person (or company) with whom you have a contractual relationship. If you give that concept a moments thought... it makes 100% sense.

That's why Chase can't (or won't) talk to you Brian. They have no legal relationship with you and if they discussed one of their customer's accounts with you... they would be open for law suits under all the privacy regulations. (damn lawyers again)

I know it stinks... but in this situation there is a reason they wouldn't work with you direct to get this resolved.

Lastly.. if the card is present at the sale... the risk of fraud is much lower so the merchant gets a lower rate for each transaction. The merchant bank tried to save you some money and ended up setting you up as "Retail".

I'm not defending the practices... just providing some insight from a guy who once ran a credit card program that processed will over a billion dollars in transactions each year.

Take into consideration that Chase Bank is the entity that denied the validity of the charge.

All the others directly involved has stated the the charge is valid.

How you can state that they(B.E. and Chase) have no business relationship is well past my understanding.

As I see it. Chase has every reason to honor the charge.

Since they are not, I think of it as taking what does not belong to Chase.

In All transactions as some level some trust is involved.

All principals are acting in good faith EXCEPT Chase.

If one pays more after a few chargebacks,

I can see that Chase is acting in an active fashion to charge BE's company

more for its services.

What Chase wants is a customer they can gouge for services that

ALSO can't get such services from another Bank

Because Chase will report that BE's Company "Has Many Charge Backs.

Th strikes me as predatory.... no loan needed.

I think Chase has two good reasons to stick to their "chargeback".

The payoff is pretty big.

miranda

[MichiganShootist]

BE has a contract with his merchant bank THEY are the ones who are responsible for getting the money out of Chase.

Chase has a relationship with the card holder.... and none with BE

[Miranda]

BE has a contract with his merchant bank THEY are the ones who are responsible for getting the money out of Chase.

Chase has a relationship with the card holder.... and none with BE

Sorry. I am not accepting it.

Still Chase's problem.

They are sitting on the money.

Who they feel they should speak to about the issue is interesting.

Chase is the one declaring 'charge back'

and BE's Company is the one paying that 'charge back'

That is why Chase should be talking and fixing.

miranda

[GeneralChang]

I read through that consumer website link and boy was it making me angry. A Google search yielded other atrocities like over $7000 in interest charged on a $3500 balance. The figures are approximations of course but you get the idea. Sorry Brian for your troubles. In the end a small claims lawsuit could be helpful. I predict another class action lawsuit against the company in the near future.

[benos]

I appreciate all the hate support and feedback!

I'll let you know the outcome.

be

[bountyhunter]

I appreciate all the hate support and feedback!

I'll let you know the outcome.

be

You might want to contact your state's Attorney General.

The reason: on the noon news, the FED congresss is sharpening their knives to go against the credit card companies for the various consumer screwjobs they are currently perpetrating and generating a "consumer bill of rights" that they would be held accountable to.

This just might have a snowball's chance in hell of happening because the usual GOP opposition to anything that regulates business in anyway might be muted by election year poltics and GOP fear of looking "anti working man" at a time when the woking man is being crushed by the recesssion and gouged by every big business you can think of.

Good time to voice your opinion to the government: in an election year when they are looking for things to make an issue out of.....

[benos]

Anyone ever heard of United Bank Card Merchant Service?

I'm considering switching my merchant service provider.

Thank you,

be

[chuckbradley]

Nope but be sure to ask if those rates are set in stone and any extra fees they may charge for different types of cards. Corporate rewards cards usually have an extra add on fee up to 1.6 %.

[benos]

Here's the latest update after about 3 hours on the phone today.

I talked to 3 different people in 3 different departments at my processor (Global Payments). They said for certain that I was listed as a Retail Merchant with them (which is what Chase sees). I also talked to 4 different people at my Merchant Account (TMS) that said I was listed as a Internet Merchant. (So I should be an Internet Merchant with GP.) I finally got a GP support tech to connect me with a TMS "Partner Service" rep, who said I was listed as an Internet Merchant. He put me on hold and called GP and confirmed that I was listed as a RM with them. Then he assured me that he would get me changed to an IM with GP. Which he did - I called GP about 15 minutes later. So at least that's done.

When we were chatting toward the end of the conversation... after I told him a funny story, he got more friendly and less pro-sounding. He said when he put me on mute and told the rest of the office my situation, the responses ranged from jaw dropping, to chuckling, to "I can't believe this - I never seen this happen."

Then he told me the office's responses to the fact that Chase is keeping my money even though they have it in writing from the customer that he made and approved the charge from me. He said, and the rest of his office crew did too, that he's never seen that happen.

At one point when I was talking to a GP rep, she was trying to make Chase's actions okay... then she said "apparently they'd found a loophole in the system." I stopped her and said no, please don't say "loophole" - they are thieves.

I was told by both TMS and GP, that since the chargeback is "resolved" - the only thing I can do to get it reversed is to have the customer fax a signed letter to Chase saying he approved the charge.

I called the customer and he said he'd do that, so I emailed him the details. Since he doesn't have a fax machine, I told him to just mail me the signed letter and I'd fax it to GP, who said they would then be able to resolve it with Chase.

Jesus.

be

[JThompson]

FUBAR

Edited March 15, 2008 by JThompson

[scirocco38s]

Well I had a similar issue with Chase. I had a BP gas credit card for over 20years and had never had a problem with it. If I charged 150 bucks in gas I recieved a bill from BP and I paid the bill. I did this month in and month out for 20plus years. Then they sold it all to chase and they are like a group of f--ing vultures waiting for you to be 1 day late. It doesnt matter to them if you pay in full, only that it was late by 1 day, and now it isnt just a gas card it is a visa or mastercard from BP thru Chase. I told them just like I told Citibank. I retired the accounts and now have charge cards from my credit union. They try to help out their customers and keep us happy. If there is justice they will eventually rot.