Rocket35 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Through tracking my performance I notice a significant decline in performance when shooting matches at indoor ranges. I am wondering how those that do well overcome the changes in lighting and overall challanges. I think I am too target focused- but that an assumption based on not being able to see the sights as clearly as shooting outdoors. I have placed a dot of white out on the front sight which has helped a little I think. I am just looking for some concrete skill drills or tips to help me perform better at shooting indoor matches. Thanks in advance! FYI- I dryfire quite a bit indoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I shoot indoors a great deal and have noticed the same "drop off" in preformance.... in my shooting and that of the other regulars with whom I shoot outdoors as well. I believe it is a function of the poor and generally inconsistant lighting, the more restrictive field of fire, and at some ranges the noise level. I double plug my ears when shooting indoors. If you find a magic solution... please write a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Where is Saul Kirsch when you need him?! I also double plug and it helps a great deal with the added noise level. But it is really frustrating. Good thing it is only a couple of months during the winter where I have to resort to shooting indoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) I suspect that part of our problem is the fact that the overall lighting level is much lower than outdooors. That would mean that the pupils of the eye are more dialated. That would mean we are working with a lower "F-stop" or have less depth of field than we normally have outside. That could add to stage time by having to re-focus more and could affect scores since we are just not seeing so good. Just a thought, Chuck edit: On noise: When I am just standing and firing at the IDR, there is a 50% chance I will start getting real flinchy. If I am under the timer, I don't hear the gun! Funny stuff.... Edited January 7, 2008 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Thanks for the thoughts Chuck. I think therein lies the answer. I wonder if there is some way to enhance the contraction of the pupils with a different color lense in the shooting glasses?? Say yellow (vermillion)? I currently use clear in my Rudy's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Thanks for the thoughts Chuck. I think therein lies the answer. I wonder if there is some way to enhance the contraction of the pupils with a different color lense in the shooting glasses?? Say yellow (vermillion)? I currently use clear in my Rudy's. I use clear lenses indoors. It has made a difference on long shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Provan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Most indoor ranges use those funny floresent(spelling) lights. If you are looking for that clear sight picture it wont be there. Also FO sights dont light up because the fiber picks up UV light, which is not present indoors. I host a winter program at an indoor range in Michigan. I find that I need to work at keeping the sight is the right focus. I do shoot slower indoors but I feel it helps me when I go back to the real world of sunlight. Even though there is a differance in the sights, there is still a lot that is not light dependent. For example, reloads, movement, in and out of ports or postitions, just to name a few. Setting up stages indoors is a challenge. I find it easier to do medium courses of fire with movers, like DT's or Max traps. Challenging the shooters with how much can you shoot after hitting this popper before this target is present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I forgot to add another thing that reduces our "ability" to shoot as well indoors. Smoke!!! Especially in low light or when using a flashlight the refraction of light off the smoke also reduces visability a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 I forgot to add another thing that reduces our "ability" to shoot as well indoors.Smoke!!! Especially in low light or when using a flashlight the refraction of light off the smoke also reduces visability a lot. I don't smoke when I shoot I get ya though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Most indoor ranges use those funny floresent(spelling) lights. If you are looking for that clear sight picture it wont be there. Also FO sights dont light up because the fiber picks up UV light, which is not present indoors. I host a winter program at an indoor range in Michigan. I find that I need to work at keeping the sight is the right focus. I do shoot slower indoors but I feel it helps me when I go back to the real world of sunlight. Even though there is a differance in the sights, there is still a lot that is not light dependent. For example, reloads, movement, in and out of ports or postitions, just to name a few. Setting up stages indoors is a challenge. I find it easier to do medium courses of fire with movers, like DT's or Max traps. Challenging the shooters with how much can you shoot after hitting this popper before this target is present. I am figuring that, for me, I need to slow up my spits a bit and really bear down on the sights. Which should teach me a little more control for the outdoor shooting anyways. There isn't much time to get used to or practice indoors as there isn't that many places close enough to go frequently enough. I shoot on the average of 4 times indoors a year. It helps take the edge off of the withdrawls over the winter months! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Provan Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I host an indoor program from November to April. Shooting the first and third thursday and the forth sunday jan. to march. That is 8-3 stage matches and 3-5 stage matches. Not bad for Michigan in winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Sounds like a very nice program Carl. The best we have is Pine Tree club matches and the WIIT in February. And that is 6 hours round trip for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Do what I do indoors, shoot a dot gun..... I hate shooting indoors with irons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 That is what I was thinking. That is about the best way to overcome the problem! But quite an expensive option... Darryl does too. You did great yesturday BTW Howard! WTG!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Do what I do indoors, shoot a dot gun.....I hate shooting indoors with irons. LOL That's what I ws going to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I think it's just one of those things you have to get used to. I don't know that there's a silver bullet, just something you need to do one step at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Thanks Jay! Hey, you remember the paint that you could shine a bright light on and it would glow for a while? I have seen it for fishing lures and also remember some guns years ago with it in the 3-dot sights marketed to cops, hit the sights with the big mag light when drawing it at night and the sights would glow for a while..... If you could find some of that stuff you might be able to pull your fiber, put a drop in the hole and let it dry, then hit it with your tactical light at LAMR. It shouldn't be too hard to clean out, worst case you would need a .040" drill and turn it with your fingers to clean the hole out. It might work, and would certainly be cheaper than an Open gun..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Sounds like a very nice program Carl. The best we have is Pine Tree club matches and the WIIT in February. And that is 6 hours round trip for me! Come shoot our SEWSA matches Jay. Racine is alot closer than Rockford. Come down to Racine Saturday night and then stay for Schultz's on Sunday. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 When you say your performance is down are you comparing identical stages to identical stages ? It might have nothing to do with the sights. Just a thought but couldnt it have something to do with the stages ? Maybe you are a better mover than shooter. Meaning out door courses generally have more room so more spread out COF's making movement more important to your HF. Indoor course would make speed of shooting more important than speed of movement. I bring this up as I tend to do the opposite. Stages with little movement I do well on cause I cant run for squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I didn't read the whole thread for time issues - but here are a few things off the top of my head. Get a Fiber Optic FS. Don't look directly at any light. Don't let trivial things distract you from shooting - The conditions don't matter if you follow the fundamentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Don't let trivial things distract you from shooting - The conditions don't matter if you follow the fundamentals. +1 Distraction from the shooting. We often get bent out of shape when we aren't pulling the trigger when we think we ought to be. We get antsy. It's just a distraction from the shooting. Solid fundaments. Clearly define the goal. Execute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 When you say your performance is down are you comparing identical stages to identical stages ? It might have nothing to do with the sights. Just a thought but couldnt it have something to do with the stages ? Maybe you are a better mover than shooter. Meaning out door courses generally have more room so more spread out COF's making movement more important to your HF. Indoor course would make speed of shooting more important than speed of movement. I bring this up as I tend to do the opposite. Stages with little movement I do well on cause I cant run for squat. Yup- pretty much, this was a classifier match and I shot these classifiers outdoors earlier this year. Not to mention I am in tune enough to my shooting to know what my capabilities are with similiar skill sets. And your right- my sights are fine- there is something to do with overcoming the lack of focus associated with indoor shooting that I think was touched on earlier. I am going to try different color inserts to highten my pupil contraction and see how that goes. And try to get ahold of some of that paint Howard suggested. And Tom- didn't forget about you either! I will have to check into that and my schedule to see if I can make it down there. Your right- much closer. Although I am not sure about staying over night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Get a Fiber Optic FS....use one Don't look directly at any light....I don't do that (same with looking directly into the sun ) Don't let trivial things distract you from shooting - The conditions don't matter if you follow the fundamentals.....I don't feel that is the case. I hate to disagree with you Jake- but through tracking my last four years of shooting- clearly there is another problem other than not following the fundamentals. Although I don't profess to being the best at them- at least a master in them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Thanks Jay!Hey, you remember the paint that you could shine a bright light on and it would glow for a while? I have seen it for fishing lures and also remember some guns years ago with it in the 3-dot sights marketed to cops, hit the sights with the big mag light when drawing it at night and the sights would glow for a while..... If you could find some of that stuff you might be able to pull your fiber, put a drop in the hole and let it dry, then hit it with your tactical light at LAMR. It shouldn't be too hard to clean out, worst case you would need a .040" drill and turn it with your fingers to clean the hole out. It might work, and would certainly be cheaper than an Open gun..... Thanks a LOT Howard, I just bought an open blaster because of your earlier post and NOW you tell me about glow paint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Less light = less ability to see the front sight, particularly if you are eligible for AARP. When I find indoor shooting frustrating it is largely when I compare it to my outdoor shooting which I shouldn't do. Apples and oranges. I'll be interested to see what impact it has when I get my open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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