Anyone play around with H110 in their 38super?

[ExtremeShot]

I'm was thinking about trying out some H110 in my 38super open gun. I've found a few comments about using it, but not many. The only comments I would consider negative was that the powder filled the case (it appears that somewhere around 12 to 15 grains of H110 is needed for around 170 pf).

Anyone have any comments about h110? Also, please post your load info if you have something. ....I have the powder so I might as well give it a try. I'm using 124grn Zero FMJ.

Thanks,

Darren

[sargenv]

I tried it with 135's and you can't get enough powder into the case to make major. I think mine topped out at 150 PF when seating my bullet to Max OAL for my STI mags and a slightly compressed charge of powder. H110 generally requires nearly full case volume in the 357 magnum with heavier bullets being better for complete ignition and usually a heavy roll crimp. Something we can't do in an auto pistol. Might make an ok Steel challenge load though..

[Radical Precision Designs]

So long as you are not using 115's you should be ok. With the 124's it is a very soft/flat shooting load. No signs of high pressure. You will get some unburned powder going off in the comp, not really a bad thing. You could try going a little bit heavier on the crimp, see if that can delay some on the ignition. It will be a compressed load, but H-110 does not mind being compressed, although it doesn't physically has that much space to compress on either. So you will load long. I have made some loads between 14 to 15.5 grs that worked just fine, but start around 12 grs. and go up from there as you chrono. Have fun with it.

Edited to include:

I hope you are not shooting a "shorty" as you will need the longer barrels to utilize the slow burning of the powder. And again, yes it is possible, just work with it. Hope you don't mind spilling some powder while loading.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Radical Precision Designs

[vettman1]

I use H110 in my S&W .460 XVR (and yes it does make major) but have never used it in .38 super. Make sure you post how it turns out. BTW, my .460 still makes major at 200 yards!

[Powder Finger]

Never used h110, but h108 (if still available) was 13.8 w/130's for a 180+ pf.

Also played with w296 but don't remember the load but it made the same factor.

Both make hugh amounts of gas and shot very similar to a 9X25 gun.

[HSMITH]

It won't work in 9mm, or so I hear Not even with a literally full case, or so I hear

[Powder Finger]

It's compressed in 23MM already!

[caspian guy]

I used to run this in my 9x25 it was the flattest thing I have ever used. It created so much gas for the comp that the dot dipped down slightly. That along with a mind numbing concussion. You might be able to get enough of it to go major in a 38 sup, provided it is a 5" gun.

My 9x25 load was like 15.5-16ish gr with a 124 gr bullet to go old major I believe I used to shoot for 180 pf. Of course the 9x25 had much more case volume. So work up slowly is good advice.

Good luck and let us know how it works.

[L9X25]

I shot a 9x25 load that made major in the 175+ PF days and it required nearly 18 grs of powder with a 115gr projectile.

When the power factor was dropped to 165 there was seemingly not enough pressure to make the powder burn reasonably cleanly and the gun was filthy after each match. With 9x25 it necessitated that I brush out the chamber after each stage to reduce the buildup of unburned powder and I still experienced powder related jams.

[Radical Precision Designs]

If you are not concerned about making major PF, and a minor load for steel, while still retaining the flat shooting characteristiscs of major is ok, then use the 115 gr bullets. It will be flat and soft, but even if you dip the case full and then compress, it will still not make major. With the 124 bullets, because of the present lower PF you will make major, but not by much. Again, not on a "shorty" gun, or one with lots of barrel ports/vents/hybrid.

The H-108 (I still got a couple of pounds somewhere) is even slower burnig, and it was dirt cheap. It was great for 9X25 Dillon (and even long .357 Sig). The H-110 burns faster . You can also use the VV N-110, but the Vihtavuori is slower, bulkier, and creates lots of pressure.

I made some loads (powder puffs) with 124 bullets and a case full of H-110 in 9mm "minor", which with a reduced spring and a gigantic crimp were great. But loading them was a real bitch, with powder spilling all over (both while loading and while shooting). Not worth it in the long run.

Hey, you've got a couple of pounds of the stuff ?? What the heck go play with it. It will be fun.

Edited to ad:

If you are buying this powder because it is cheap, just consider that since you will use twice as much then the price effectively doubles per shot.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Radical Precision Designs

[HoMiE]

Isn't H110 and W296 one in the same? I've only used it in .44mag.

vettman1- I like that "...still makes major at 200yards!"

[vettman1]

Isn't H110 and W296 one in the same? I've only used it in .44mag.

vettman1- I like that "...still makes major at 200yards!"

Heck, I was just looking at a ballistics calculator and it's still making major at 600 yards. That doesn't seem right, but when a 240 gr bullet is going 1850 fps at the muzzle... well you get the picture. My friend and I were joking about how his .44 magnum was going slower than mine with the same bullet weight at the muzzle compaired to mine at 100 yards.

[Powder Finger]

Sorry it was 13.2 of H-108 for 1410 w/130RN.

It was old days so i'm sure it was a CP 9X23 case.

[ExtremeShot]

I just finished working up some H110 loads. Before that I worked up some IMR SR4756 loads.

My last SR4756 load was at 8.3 grains, then I switched over to H110 and left everything else the same. The 8.3 grains of SR4756 equated to 14.4 grains of H110. I still had quite a bit of room left in the case.

What I immediately noticed was that the H110 metered MUCH better than the larger grain sized 4756. This makes sense and makes working up loads a whole lot easier!!

I think I'll go with a wide range this time and do a 12.0 grain, 13.0 grain, 14.4 (the one i already did) and a 15.0 load. I can refine later if I like what I see at the range.

As far as reloading goes, I'm really liking the H110. Hopefully the range results will also be good.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Darren

[ExtremeShot]

I found a big negative with H110....it's small enough to get in between the powder hopper bars and jam everything up. That really sucks.

DM

[shred]

Have you chronoed the 4756 loads? I needed a lot more than 8.3 to make Major in Super.

In the 9x25, it took 17 grains of H110, but the cases were clean and shiny on the inside.

[mda]

Have you chronoed the 4756 loads? I needed a lot more than 8.3 to make Major in Super.

In the 9x25, it took 17 grains of H110, but the cases were clean and shiny on the inside.

Shred this it what I chrono at with 4756.

5" non-hybrid comp.

124 gr XTP HP .355 dia

1327 1314

1340 1339

1322 1309

1311 1358

1314 1347

1.245 oal 1.245 oal

1322.8 1333.4

11.5 21.2

164.0 165.3

[ExtremeShot]

Have you chronoed the 4756 loads? I needed a lot more than 8.3 to make Major in Super.

In the 9x25, it took 17 grains of H110, but the cases were clean and shiny on the inside.

Yep, I chrono'ed today. Maybe something went wrong, but my 8.3 grains of 4756 produced a PF of 182.9 (avg 1474.8 fps)! After seeing the 182.9, I didn't chrono the higher 8.6 and 8.8 loads I made up for fear that I would f-up my new gun. ...I think this was accurate as it sure felt like a hot, 180-ish load. I plan to make up some more 4756 loads in the morning and hopefully chrono them tomorrow afternoon. I'm thinking I'll do 7.2, 7.6, and 8.0 gn.

I also chroned one H110 load today. I originally planned to chrono two loads (14.4 and 14.8 gn), however, the larger 14.8 gn load was getting jammed in my magazine. After further inspection, I noticed that the 14.8 gn rounds were longer than the 14.4's. At that point I remember that during reloading the 14.8's, it appeared that the powder was getting compressed. I'm guessing that after I seated the bullet and compressed the powder, the powder pushed the bullet back out before I could crimp it in the next station. I guess to do a compressed load I'll have to use a combo seater/crimper die. ....I really hate to change a tool head around.

So anyway, the 14.4 gn of H110 produced an average velocity of 1343.5 fps or 166.6 PF using a 124 gn Zero FMJ bullet. As someone said (I think it was Rad. Precision), it produced one heck of a concussion. HOWEVER, the red dot didn't jump near as much as with the comparable 8.3 gn HS-6 load that gave me a 167.0 PF.

So now I'm wondering if it's worth changing my toolhead to find out what it's going to take to get me up to about 170 PF (I like to have a little buffer)? I don't even think I have a 9mm/38super combo seat/crimp die. I'm wondering if reducing the bell a little would tighten up the case enough to prevent the bullet from backing out? ...or if the dillon crimp die could also be used to seat the bullet? Got any thoughts?

D

[Radical Precision Designs]

Have you chronoed the 4756 loads? I needed a lot more than 8.3 to make Major in Super.

In the 9x25, it took 17 grains of H110, but the cases were clean and shiny on the inside.

Yep, I chrono'ed today. Maybe something went wrong, but my 8.3 grains of 4756 produced a PF of 182.9 (avg 1474.8 fps)! After seeing the 182.9, I didn't chrono the higher 8.6 and 8.8 loads I made up for fear that I would f-up my new gun. ...I think this was accurate as it sure felt like a hot, 180-ish load. I plan to make up some more 4756 loads in the morning and hopefully chrono them tomorrow afternoon. I'm thinking I'll do 7.2, 7.6, and 8.0 gn.

I also chroned one H110 load today. I originally planned to chrono two loads (14.4 and 14.8 gn), however, the larger 14.8 gn load was getting jammed in my magazine. After further inspection, I noticed that the 14.8 gn rounds were longer than the 14.4's. At that point I remember that during reloading the 14.8's, it appeared that the powder was getting compressed. I'm guessing that after I seated the bullet and compressed the powder, the powder pushed the bullet back out before I could crimp it in the next station. I guess to do a compressed load I'll have to use a combo seater/crimper die. ....I really hate to change a tool head around.

So anyway, the 14.4 gn of H110 produced an average velocity of 1343.5 fps or 166.6 PF using a 124 gn Zero FMJ bullet. As someone said (I think it was Rad. Precision), it produced one heck of a concussion. HOWEVER, the red dot didn't jump near as much as with the comparable 8.3 gn HS-6 load that gave me a 167.0 PF.

So now I'm wondering if it's worth changing my toolhead to find out what it's going to take to get me up to about 170 PF (I like to have a little buffer)? I don't even think I have a 9mm/38super combo seat/crimp die. I'm wondering if reducing the bell a little would tighten up the case enough to prevent the bullet from backing out? ...or if the dillon crimp die could also be used to seat the bullet? Got any thoughts?

D

Most major power factor loads with H-110 will be compressed. H-110 is a dense powder, and while it reacts well to being compressed, it doesn't compress that readily. One little trick that works wel for me is to "double pump/compress" the loads. That means to go up with the handle and seat the bullet, then go slightly down, and right back up again for a second time to finish seating/compressing. You may also try adjusting the die a little bit lower to compensate for extra back resistance. Using jacketed hollow point bullet will yield a shorter oal that may help, and you will notice that the holoow point cavity will crimp in a little bit, but it shouldn't affect accuracy. Yes, it is a loud, high concussion load, but oh so flat and soft.

[HSMITH]

Wow, 8.8 of 4756 didn't make major for me in a 9mm with 115's and the case was basically full. Was 163 if I remember correctly. Might try the 124/5 grainers again, the 115's felt great.

[shred]

Yeah.. 4756 is very lot-to-lot dependant.. I think you got a good one there.. I had to go to 9.1 with a 121 once.

[RH45]

Yeah.. 4756 is very lot-to-lot dependant.. I think you got a good one there.. I had to go to 9.1 with a 121 once.

Yes, 4756 can vari by lot. I always shoot a Zero 125 grain JHP, and usually use VVN350, but, occasionally have trouble getting VV powder, so I also load 4756, on occasion and have found that when you change lot numbers, you have to work uo your load---again.

[ExtremeShot]

I didn't get any new 110 loads chronoed yet, however, I wanted to report some work I did to try to prevent the powder bars from jamming up. Basically I took the bars out and stoned them to remove the pits and get a flat surface. After that I used a cut strip from a Post-It note and placed it between the top bar and the top of the housing. I used the sticky part of the Post-it note so that it would stay in the housing better. ...This worked pretty good and I was able to make several loads without it jamming up.

However, I'm still having issues with the bullet backing out. I'm going to find a seater/crimp die and give that a try. Maybe I can find an old single stage press and just transfer the case-full-of-powder over to it for the final stage. Regarding the OAL, my die was giving me an OAL of around 1.255/1.260. When I was loading the 14.8 gn of H110, the bullet was being pushed out to around 1.28X and 1.29X. The double pumping that Rad suggested didn't work.

Regarding another subject for you guys talking about the 4756, I'm curious how high the dot jumps in your lense? Does it jump all the way to the top of the lense (this is what I was getting with my 170 PF HS-6 load). What power factor are you using?

D

[ExtremeShot]

Server spazzed...deleted duplicate post.

Edited January 7, 2008 by ExtremeShot

[HSMITH]

You won't hold it if it is pushing the bullet out that far. Been down this road with revolver cartridges plenty. With a cannelured bullet and a HARD roll crimp you would have a chance, but not on an autoloader bullet and straight case. Drop the charge until it stops pushing the bullet out, that is all you are going to be able to do.

A U-die will help a little, but not much.