WDB Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Well it's a little late for this time around but I think we definitely need to have some more equitable method in place before 2011. If USA puts in a bid to host the 2011 WS then you can bet that requests for slots/teams is going to be through the roof. US put in for a bid. Are you SERIOUS? Looking at the "other" thread some of the reason for our Nats. being up in the air are parking issues, finding a venue willing and ABLE to handle that many shooters, logistics (hotels, food) and we are talking ONLY 350-400 shooters. Last WS had 887!!! If we want a WS we better start planning for 2014 now, 2011 is just not enough time working the way we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) Well it's a little late for this time around but I think we definitely need to have some more equitable method in place before 2011. If USA puts in a bid to host the 2011 WS then you can bet that requests for slots/teams is going to be through the roof. US put in for a bid. Are you SERIOUS? Looking at the "other" thread some of the reason for our Nats. being up in the air are parking issues, finding a venue willing and ABLE to handle that many shooters, logistics (hotels, food) and we are talking ONLY 350-400 shooters. Last WS had 887!!! If we want a WS we better start planning for 2014 now, 2011 is just not enough time working the way we are now. Um...dude...you really need to look at the last USPSA BoD minutes. Tulsa officially submitted the bid to the USPSA BoD already for 2011...it really could happen. SERIOUS. Edited December 31, 2007 by Barrettone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 The top levels of Revolver Division are just as hotly-contested as any other... Are you kidding? Limited nationals this year had 28 GM's! I mean no disrespect to the wheelies.. but there just isn't as much heat in the division as others. Yes, there are less shooters. But the number of GM's doesn't say it all. In Europe, we have very few GM's because a lot of shooters don't classify, they just shoot matches and don't really care about their rankings. Saying the division is not hotly-contested when Jerry is shooting is like saying Open division is not hotly-contested when Eric G. is one of only ten Open shooters shooting the match It's the quality, not the quantity, right? Both Jerry and Eric put the runner-up away @ 4% last World Shoot. I agree there are fewer shooters, so pay for fewer shooters... Paying for people that score less than 80% of Jerry to go is crazy. But having a defending World Champ pay for his own trip sounds weird to me Sorry to mix into a USPSA shooting thread Spook, I am not really sure what you are trying to say here. I didn't say revo is not hotly contested, I said there was not as much heat as in some other divisions. If open only had 10 guys in it, it would be much less hotly contested than it is now. Also, please note that I did not at all say that USPSA should not fund a revo team. You drew that conclusion on your own. (I don't have a problem with sending a revo team) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Parking at a World Shoot is not as bad as parking at a Nationals. At a WS the organisers are expected to provide bus transportation from the hotels to the range. Once the bus drops off the shooters they leave the range to make room for the next bus, they return at the end of the day to take the shooters back to the hotel. Tulsa is more than capable of holding a World Shoot. In my opinion, if USA puts in a bid we will win it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) The top levels of Revolver Division are just as hotly-contested as any other... Are you kidding? Limited nationals this year had 28 GM's! I mean no disrespect to the wheelies.. but there just isn't as much heat in the division as others. Yes, there are less shooters. But the number of GM's doesn't say it all. In Europe, we have very few GM's because a lot of shooters don't classify, they just shoot matches and don't really care about their rankings. Saying the division is not hotly-contested when Jerry is shooting is like saying Open division is not hotly-contested when Eric G. is one of only ten Open shooters shooting the match It's the quality, not the quantity, right? Both Jerry and Eric put the runner-up away @ 4% last World Shoot. I agree there are fewer shooters, so pay for fewer shooters... Paying for people that score less than 80% of Jerry to go is crazy. But having a defending World Champ pay for his own trip sounds weird to me Sorry to mix into a USPSA shooting thread Spook, I am not really sure what you are trying to say here. I didn't say revo is not hotly contested, I said there was not as much heat as in some other divisions. If open only had 10 guys in it, it would be much less hotly contested than it is now. Also, please note that I did not at all say that USPSA should not fund a revo team. You drew that conclusion on your own. (I don't have a problem with sending a revo team) Ben, I think I didn't effectively write what I meant. Or, we have a different opinion on what makes a division hotly-contested. I tend to look at how hard it is (how much work I need to do) to beat the number 1 guy in the division. In the end, he's the one that beats everyone. I don't really care about how many people end up number two and below. I think you're opinion is that the number of (good) shooters is more of a factor in how hard it is to get to the top? Maybe my way of thinking comes from living in Europe where Eric Grauffel has won every match he has shot since 1998. It's easier to focus on the top guy, because there is only one. Same goes for revolver (Jerry), which is the division I liked to shoot. You're right about point number two. I assumed you stated an argument to not fund a USPSA Revolver team. Sorry for my incorrect assumption. No harm meant Edited January 1, 2008 by spook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Parking at a World Shoot is not as bad as parking at a Nationals. At a WS the organisers are expected to provide bus transportation from the hotels to the range. Once the bus drops off the shooters they leave the range to make room for the next bus, they return at the end of the day to take the shooters back to the hotel.Tulsa is more than capable of holding a World Shoot. In my opinion, if USA puts in a bid we will win it. I agree. Based on what I heard in France, a decent WS bid from the US would be very popular. The range and the match aren't the problem with a WS, it's everything else-- transportation, import permits, ammo, secure storage, hotels, tours, banquets, ceremonies, etc, etc, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 My thought is that we should fully fund a pair of realistic potential world champs in each division possible, with any other team members paying their own way just like any other big match. We'd be nuts to pay for any Revolver shooter besides Jerry until someone actually beats the man and takes a National title from him instead of just talking about it. TGO is a 3 time National champ for 2007 alone. Anyone else is going to be a potential backup shooter at best in Standard so we should fund TT based on his Nationals performance. I can't imagine Dave S. not going for anything close to the reason given. Would Glock even let him blow off a World Shoot? Let Dave and Robert Vogel carry our Production torch and I think 1 will prevail. We've got a current Open champ and his closest rival (also a former National Open champ) to represent us in Open. Max and Chris are formidable and will not allow anyone to take the Open title without a fight. Athena and Kay round out our fully funded shooting pairs. Sorry, but I don't think anyone really "deserves" membership money to shoot a big match and have a fun time. I'd much rather see us concentrate on sending realistic potential world title winners. Why even pretend that a team title is anything worth paying for. If we have a World Shoot in the US, then we can think about massing our forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I can tell you with 100% certainty that Dave is not going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Sorry, but I don't think anyone really "deserves" membership money to shoot a big match and have a fun time. I'd much rather see us concentrate on sending realistic potential world title winners. Why even pretend that a team title is anything worth paying for. If we have a World Shoot in the US, then we can think about massing our forces. Since we expressing our opinions on the subject, I think to crawl out of our "hobby" status, we need to encourage competition just to get to the major matches. At the local bar you play in a pool league every week, and WIN your way to playoffs, state, regional and eventually the big show in Vegas. IF you win a slot, it's paid for. I think the WS Team should have the full support of our members. If you want to keep score at the team level, and they will accept 3 (+1) as a team then let's find a way to get our four best there, ready to kick ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Agreed. The World Shoot is not just an INDIVIDUAL contest, it's also a TEAM contest and as such we should send out best and cover their costs (within reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caps Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 The World Shoot is not just an INDIVIDUAL contest, it's also a TEAM contest At the last WS only about 40% of shooters were in a team. It's all about individual performance. A team is just 4 individual results added together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Considering these members are sent to the World Shoot to represent the US, their costs should be covered by USPSA. A simple solution, have the BOD pass a bylaw requiring $1 be sent to USPSA for the WS team fund for every competitor in every match above level 1 and .25 cents for every competitor in each level 1 match. The outlay of cost to each USPSA member is astonishingly low and that should produce enough revenue to field a team in each division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I can tell you with 100% certainty that Dave is not going. A damn (understandable) shame, and definately a headscratcher for the IPSC BOD. DP40, I think to make the WS more professional, and for all countries to "crawl out of their hobby status", only the best shooters should attend the World Shoot. The next part might sound a little harsh, but I am amazed at how many "bad to mediocre" shooters attend World Shoots, sipmly because there are that many slots, and because they can afford it. It is totally weird to see Eric Grauffel of Max Michel should next to a squad with guys that barely make C-class. It's like giving your local weekend Football team a go in the Superbowl. IPSC is the only sport I can think of where anyone who participates in the sport, can go to the World Championships, no matter what level they play at. I mean, it's the friggin' World Championship for crying out loud. Each year World Shoots get bigger and bigger and more logistic problems rise because of it. I think each country should send their best and that's it. Bali will have about 1000 shooters. That's just crazy! 300 shooters could easily be enough. I also feel that it takes something away from the status of reaching the World Championship. You can just go, and you don't have to perform well to get there. IMO, keep the Level III matches open to everyone and let the top guys fight at the Level IV and Level V matches. It will give the top guys something extra to work for and the juniors something to dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Considering these members are sent to the World Shoot to represent the US, their costs should be covered by USPSA. that's what I was trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I like the fact that the WS is open to all IPSC members. If the organisers can handle a bigger match then I'm all for it. I've done 3 European Champs (Level IV) and 3 World Shoots and the experience is unlike any other match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo23 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) I can tell you with 100% certainty that Dave is not going. A damn (understandable) shame, and definately a headscratcher for the IPSC BOD. DP40, I think to make the WS more professional, and for all countries to "crawl out of their hobby status", only the best shooters should attend the World Shoot. The next part might sound a little harsh, but I am amazed at how many "bad to mediocre" shooters attend World Shoots, sipmly because there are that many slots, and because they can afford it. It is totally weird to see Eric Grauffel of Max Michel should next to a squad with guys that barely make C-class. It's like giving your local weekend Football team a go in the Superbowl. IPSC is the only sport I can think of where anyone who participates in the sport, can go to the World Championships, no matter what level they play at. I mean, it's the friggin' World Championship for crying out loud. Each year World Shoots get bigger and bigger and more logistic problems rise because of it. I think each country should send their best and that's it. Bali will have about 1000 shooters. That's just crazy! 300 shooters could easily be enough. I also feel that it takes something away from the status of reaching the World Championship. You can just go, and you don't have to perform well to get there. IMO, keep the Level III matches open to everyone and let the top guys fight at the Level IV and Level V matches. It will give the top guys something extra to work for and the juniors something to dream of. This is why I think that our sport is so great! We have the chance to not only go to a match of this size and participate, but we can also get to see the WORLDS best at the same time. This gives us an idea of how bad we would like to work to et here on that level. The top guys already work very hard to get there (or compete for the title there) and know that they are competing with the clock and the best, not the C shooter. The other shooters get a chance to have FUN (what this should be all about) and watch the TOP guns on there A game. I do see your point as well, but it is the placement of there results in the WORLD SHOOT that these guys are shooting for any way............ right. Nothing bad meant just my .02 T Edited January 15, 2008 by Turbo23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Golf, I could play the same course as say Tiger Woods, if I can afford the fees. but I am still not going to play on a PGA Tour. Nascar, I can go to the track, again if I have enough money and I can drive really fast. I am not goiong to get into the Nextel Cup I can play football, but I am not going to the superbowl. Unlimited Hydroplanes, I still won;t be there on the same course at the same time as the big guys. Only in USPSA (IPSC) can I shoot the same COFs as the best in the world AT THE SAME TIME and be scored directly against them. In fact, If I am actually any good, I could actually stand a chance of finishing at or very near the top. (No one need worry anytime soon that I will actually finish near the top, but at least the remote possibility exists) It is this fact that makes us so different and such a great a sport! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramas Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Immagine: can you have a few beers next to say Tiger Woods and talk about this sport without any bodyguards or winning a special ticket... I can do that with Eric Grauffel or Adam Tyc and that is cool! I like this sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramas Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) By the way, here is Dave's interview, included topic about participating in IPSC events also: http://www.recoilmag.com.au/davesevigny.htm It is apitty, that Dave decided do not participate in IPSC matches in future. Big loss of Big competitor. Very sad. Edited January 16, 2008 by Ramas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Some of you guys are forgetting one little deail...If only 300 competitors are allowed at the match because we limited those that qualified, you cannot AFFORD to have the caliber of matches that we have become accustomed to at the WS level, as you cannot generate the funds necessary to build a quality match with all the bells and whistles. You NEED to have those B, C and D class guys to create the revenue necessary. These matches have opening and closing ceremonies, a banquet, and officiating/staff costs that are worthy of an Olympic-level event. If you make it a "must qualify" event, then you will have cut off your nose to spite your face...just the reality of the situation...sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 That's a really good point, Jeff. A thousand shooters generates about $400,000 of revenue to build the match, that's some serious money and why a WS is unlike any other match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 By the way, here is Dave's interview, included topic about participating in IPSC events also: http://www.recoilmag.com.au/davesevigny.htmIt is apitty, that Dave decided do not participate in IPSC matches in future. Big loss of Big competitor. Very sad. That is an excellent interview. I have no idea why he's not participating in Bali, but regardless, the questions and answers were extremely well oriented towards the sport. I have never heard of 'Recoil Magazine.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caps Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 By the way, here is Dave's interview, included topic about participating in IPSC events also: http://www.recoilmag.com.au/davesevigny.htm If you go to http://www.recoilmag.com.au/index-frameset.htm and click on "in-depth interviews" there's also one with Adam Tyc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Yeah, I'd give you my opinion of Tyc and his interview if it wasn't against forum rules.... (Which is a hint to everyone else ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo23 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 By the way, here is Dave's interview, included topic about participating in IPSC events also: http://www.recoilmag.com.au/davesevigny.htmIt is apitty, that Dave decided do not participate in IPSC matches in future. Big loss of Big competitor. Very sad. That was a great read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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